My Story - 21 and dealing with side effects

Member Stories
#101

I felt pretty darn good today. Things got better progressively, peaking in afternoon time, and now I am tired enough to sleep.

I am more dealing with the emotional and mental strain all of this has left me with. When you are feeling all of these, very real mind you, symptoms, it (at least in my case) blinds you from the fact that what you tell yourself, and how you mentally deal with this serious problem, will have more than just a minor effect. In fact, just being stuck in this mess, it is hard enough on you. Not getting any help, and being called an aberration and an asterisk in Propecia’s efficacy, is slash number two on you. I believe many of us do not feel that, or rather - cannot always appropriately deal with it - due to the brain fog symptom.

I think the reason why I have gone through this matter is because I have gone through a relationship with someone during this. Although they tried to help, in the end, I ended up hurting the person because of emotional bluntness. A symptom we know has a physiological reason behind, but people are shallow, and they are as addicted to feeling good, and emotional highs, as ppl who use drugs. If you don’t fill a need for someone, eventually they turn their back. Well anyway, that is not the aspect that I am upset about - it is the fact that I did indeed cause someone who did care to hurt from this, and that’s not me. But that isn’t so hard to get by though, now that I am starting to really stabilize from the post-fin syndrome.

You guys have seen me mention much of “emotion”. That is because, with healing, it is medically relevant. Although this experience did hurt me, it will not hurt me anymore. It can be the past for me, and it can be the past for you, too. We all handle the breaks the best we can, and with the most grace, but we are all human in the end.

So, enough of that. Back to the medical part.

I missed using the Phenibut last night. Tonight, I will use it, and then keep off for at least 2 days. I should be able to sleep, and feel, fine.

Appreciate the understanding you all have had, for not just my story but even your own. Keep it up, and feel better everyone. :sunglasses:

#102

Journal update: I did not use Phenibut last night. I felt I needed to use the substance sparingly in this recovery process, and permit my own body to do some of the work as well. My sleep quality was satisfactory - definitely superior to pre-recovery process - but I did not awaken with any morning erection. I will allow more time, and more therapy, to go by before I make any conclusions. Besides, right now I feel my dick is back online, my balls are starting to churn out the proverbial butter again, and even my prostate feels more sexually-inclined, weird as that sounds.

So this means I’m 2 days off. Tonight I know it will be part of my treatment to use Phenibut. This time I won’t forget.

However, this is a warning and a note to those who are thinking of using this: you are, indeed, self-medicating. Although this is sold as a supplemental substance, it is more powerful than your average green tea drink. Specifically, the first few days you use this, you will be re-training your body to sleep deeply (which is well safe permitting you use a restrained amount) and to stimulate your body to feel, cognitively register and understand your emotions once again through the dopaminergic withdrawls. This will take balancing, and it might be like busting through a dark ocean’s surface, and desperately gasping for oxygen again. In a few days’ time, you start to breathe more normally.

I think we are making significant, near-final progress on the pathology, cause, and treatment of our problems. Keep on it guys. Thumbs up.

#103

Good stuff, mate, keep us posted on how you’re doing.

#104

Felt good yesterday. I’m more like myself. Walked 5 miles, no problem, to grab some Valerian root in the times when I am too alert and, even, shaky (sometimes, and its not a huge deterrent. I notice when I feel too much stress I become colder and can shiver).

I took Phenibut last night after a 2-day period off. 1.75g. Felt fine, was able to sleep 12 hours. Usually when this stuff really works you’re out for less time, but I’m not complaining - sleep was fine.

I figure that this is still a bit of a delicate balance - healing the adrenals to give me the catecholamine I need to be alert during the day and functional, and the brain (and maybe even adrenal) providing us with the ability to relax. My lower back still has a dull ache to it, and I favor my stress response. I intend to use an “adrenal fatigue” diet, and not put myself in any “fight or flight” situations for a while.

Last night I did notice that my mind could relax on its own…it may just take some time to get this back completely. I’m not ready to say that finasteride altered or deformed any receptors, or left me with an irreparable personality defect. It certainly did have a serious mental side effect, thus a serious sexual and physical side effect. We can actually map this out. We need to take this to doctors and researchers, and make a case out of it.

So…
Sexual function: Coming back for sure. Balls are bigger, closer to body. Dick is getting less and less shriveled. It is really starting to hang normally. I am pretty sure I can have sex now.
Physical status: More active. Less inclined to hobble around in pain. Speaking of pain, that’s pretty much all gone. I just need to get my muscles in an anabolic state.
Mental function: Sharp. Just not ready to unleash on people my left-brained criticisms in full effect, it can get me too alert. But this is the biggest improvement…I can actually understand my emotions again, and feel them, digest them…

#105

Smooth sailing so far folks. My intention now is to - realizing this disease implicates dysfunctions in the stress response and our ability to both relax our minds and to charge our minds with catecholamines - ease back into social situations where my sharp mind, and sensibility is needed in order to be comprehensive and not mindless. I will start this out easily: first with having successful and concise interactions with family and friends whom will not judge me or anything. When that goes well, I will have days of being functional under my belt (no super-stress, no brain fog, etc) and I will gladly step into a work environment where these kinds of faculties are counted on.

Sexual function: You’ll like this: woke up today & peed, and my dick was not shriveled any one bit. I had the hung flaccid wang that I usually do. Regarding popping boners and tapping ass, again, this will come. I must restore all of my hormones, all of my sexual response pathways, and exercise everything again. I can get boners now. But the penis will need some time to restore vascularity and size again (which it can & will do), and there’s something happening at the prostate as well. I can pee fine and infrequent, but there is a swelling. Not sure what it means but I’m fine for now. Will get checked out by a good Uro one day.
Physical status: starting to kick ass & take names again. Getting easier to exercise. Minimal to no physical myalgia.
Mental function: really feeling it here. I have witty retorts and speak my mindful insight to people who need it. No real stalls here. Just have to understand the mechanisms behind it and take 'er out slowly. I should also make note here that I feel very creative and inrpired by life again. I have made so many bits of art it’s nuts.

#106

Yesterday was productive on my side. Played a bunch of tennis (very well I might add - been playing seriously since age 10), which was great to get my body back into exercise. It is the “up” I need to re-train myself to attain, through the “down” of adrenal insufficiency. My brain was completely turned on. I’ve used this lame metaphor before, but…it’s like being Neo in the matrix - everything just flows, your reflexes are instant and precise, and your perceptions are dead on (side effects include “knowing Kung-fu” :stuck_out_tongue:).

Sleep has been fine. No more “coma sleeps”, but good, steady 12 hour slumbers.

I definitely condone - with responsible use - Phenibut as a method of curing our side effects.

Sexual function: Getting to the point where laying in Doctor Feelgood will be as rudimentary as posting on this forum. I awaken now (this is day 2 or 3 at least) with my wang full, not shriveled. Not w/ a boner, but methinks this will come. For now I in the least have an uncooked shrinky dink.
Mental function: Getting great.
Physical function: Good. No myalgia. Still need to build muscle, but my abs are returning. I have lost about 2-3 lbs. and my appetite has been very controlled and even suppressed (not dangerously).

#107

how has your sleep been affected in terms of phenibut etc? is it totally peacefull etc like it used to be. I remember when i first started xyrem my sleep felt unreal while on it because i hadnt had any deep sleep, similar to many people on here, for a year. this effect did in fact wear off though, and my sleep while improved when on it was never like it was the first time i ran it. i read some forums that said it could help for the dopamine rebound anxiety that can happen at the higher doses of ghb. you said you can only sleep 4 hours when on it? this would lead me to believe that its similar probably in effect to how ghb affects gaba and sleeping patterns.

#108

Well, a lot of people rank Phenibut up there with GHB and GBL (notably the “junkies”). It has a simmilar effect: agonizes GABA-B (& some type A) to induce it’s tranquil effects.

In my first few times using it, it had a definite “sedation” effect - a pleasant one. Something I was in need of. I suspect when you lack GABA, complex thoughts and inhibitory reflexes are compromised - hence your thoughts aren’t exactly thorough. Also, with sleep, my first few times were fantastic - the sleep was incredible. Indeed, as I have said, sleep was also short and I woke up a few hours later. I was not actually expecting this effect when I bought the product; I only figured it was the next best thing to GHB, but by no means going to be a sleep aid of practically the same capacity. I was pleasantly surprised.

Upon looking into it, I learned that this chemical has a “dopamine withdrawl”. When you are off it - like GHB/GBL - you can have surges of epinephrine. When serious junkies have this, it can be life-threatening (tachycardia etc)… but for us, it is actually exactly what we need (as we are dopamine deficient zombies). In short, yes - I do believe it has a DA resurgence causing one to wake up when in that deep state of rest.

My sleep quality has improved at least 50% after this. I remember when I was just starting to feel the restorative aspects of this treatment, and I woke up after a 3 hour rest with my nuts fatter and a good, old fashioned woody. In my mind, it felt like I had gone to another world…like I had just been through the most therapeutic sleep ever.

And, like you, it was just these initial times that I got the most amazing sleep ever - sleep that is probably better than (some) sex. I just used my highest dosage last night and I slept a strong and satisfying 10 hours. The effect of the chemical has a few variables.

My process is to re-train my body to achieve this kind of sleep once again. The goal is not to rely on Phenibut and succumb to dose-dependency - it is to allow my own body to return to restoring itself. I feel that this method is already succeeding.

#109

This thread has been very helpful for me. I would love to try some of the things I see people doing to try and recover. Are you guys seeing doctors who are prescribing drugs and in some kind of program or are you doing this stuff on your own? If I could find a doc who specializes in propecia recovery I would fly to wherever I needed to go in the country to see whoever I needed to see to get help

#110

3pm,

Did you have many prostate symptoms and issues before all this recovery, as in while you were suffering?
Did you have any symptoms of an enlarged prostate, and feeling like you had an enlarged prostate, or prostatitis?

Thanks,

B

#111

Dear B, ( :stuck_out_tongue: )

Prostate seemed sorta “ballooned”. Not unconfortable…just “weird”. I showed the guy that gave me fin this and he was all “you’re constipated”. I was, but…this still exists. It hasn’t seemed like much of an issue and I feel ok, but one day I will prolly see a guy who knows his ass from his elbow about it. No pain tho. No urination issues. So I am not sure this is a symptom yet, and I won’t treat it without a comprehensive diagnosis. Plus my dick is getting way better.

Yeah…not to deflate your blimp of hope, but there IS no doctor who really has the sense to treat these symptoms in this manner. They simply don’t go thru all the diagnostic avenues to find sleep, adrenals, etc as the probable source. They see low T they throw androgel at you. They see impotence they throw V at you. They see depression they throw SSRIs at you. So, sorry man. No doctor is comprehensive enough to have helped us in this way. It’s been all us. I’m sure one day soon we’ll rouse a sensible doc out of their slumber, but for now, it’s basically a one-man journey.

Now for a small update:

Had another great day. Bonding with people again, being productive and responsible, exercising, etc. I am going to bed late tonight but I will be fine. I will also need to grab a bit more Phen soon, as my supply is running thin (I have 3 more nights on it left). Everything is going okay though… I am getting more and more thrilled by the thought of sex. And I am also investigating a few interesting aspects to this illness (now that I have the rapid mind for it). Just know I won’t ever bullshit about how I feel, too. If I feel lame I’ll let you know. Hasn’t happened much yet. I expect a few lows, but it’s how I rebound and restore that matters… and I am doing fine. I feel way more like a normal human again.

Night.

#112

As my post time belies, my bedtime is beginning to get too late. This is something I plan to fix.

Lately, I have noticed that when I wake up, I am very slow to rise out of bed. In fact, I can probably even continue to sleep, but I force myself to awaken. Again, this speaks adrenal insufficiency to me - notably a low in cortisol to awaken. Given that, through the beginnings of this recovery, I did go a bit overboard and I hurt my adrenals (hence the twin lower-back pain), I don’t find this surprising. I have taken some licorice root pills to counter-act this, but it has not helped much.

Today was a slower day for me. I think I have finally conceded that I just can’t lift flip a car on it’s back right after walking out a proverbial hospital. I have done a lot, said a lot, and lived a lot since this restoration. I have initiated engagements with people and endeavored to correspond with people that rely on me to feel recovered in order to make things work. This has been some pressure, to keep up the progress. Today made me realize that, while I am in a process of recovery, it won’t be instantaneously permanent; this is a clear illness that requires time to improve.

This entire ordeal is characterized by “ups” and “downs”. Everyone who is suffering is in a “down” state. An “up” state is likely what got us in this mess, as finasteride negated the adrenals’ capacity to pull the reigns on the stress response and bring us back to a homeostasis. So I am on a quest to find that balance again, using the help of Phenibut to give me the tools I need to have the range between “alert” and “calm” well-controlled. I obviously never required such assistance before finasteride, and I hope to prove that post-finasteride, all we need is some help to get our bodies back where they need to be. Although some days are better than others, I still see myself moving forward.

Lastly… I just took 3g tonight, and that was 5 hours ago! This was not indicated, but as I have only 3g left after this, I wanted to see if I could ensure a deep sleep. Please note that the manufacturer recommends 2g per day, and I have done this independently as a (safe) personal experiment. My intent was to try 3g tonight, clean out for 2 days, and go for the last 3g. After that, I am not sure… I may purchase more, or I may see how I do with some Valerian root for a while.

Wish me luck!

#113

Here’s a summation of my current status.

I still feel okay, but I also feel that the symptoms are slightly creeping back on me, which of course I hate, and I have gone through plenty of freaking out over times when I just don’t feel as invincible as I have over the past 14 days (you get a taste of heaven then it’s pulled from you sort of deal). The fact that I got my emotional clarity back, then it slowly began to fade, is hard due to the nature of what it is affecting. All I want to do is thrive as I should, live life as I should. Well I see that my treatment protocol (used Phenibut for nine days among 15) was not sufficient enough to get my HPTA fully self-regenerating.

This is not to say I still don’t feel better, because I do. I have much less shrinkage, higher libido, and I can describe myself better. But I simply see now that this recovery process will take time, and that in order to feel better I will need to avoid developing a tolerance/immunity to Phenibut, meaning longer withdrawls and more frequent deep sleeps.

This whole experience has said a few things to me. Firstly, that deep sleep and GABA irrefutably have a capacity to redeem our deflated HPTA. We have simply seen it work too many times to idly let it go unexamined and dismissed. GABA has a role regulating the HPTA, I simply do not know if it provides increased function, as I have never heard that clarified in any studies. If this forum’s collective efforts can be focused on unearthing the ultimate actuality of this relationship, I think it would help everyone in this endeavor to rectify how our lives were unfairly warped by medical ignorance.

Secondly, I have learned that this whole illness takes more of a toll on your psyche than we would like to admit, or that we even realize ourselves, due to brain fog and not emotionally feeling/registering anything. This is an incredible forum, but I really don’t like coming back here. Paradoxical, but true.

If we can’t learn that this method of treatment is effective on these common symptoms and that it isn’t something to ignore when discussing treatment, then curing becomes quibbling. There’s a place for measuring hormone levels for sure, but this episode has definitely located a source where we can make our acquired hypogonadism history.

Again, I do feel much better, but I also need to press on. I may either have a sleep study done to see if I can get the real cure - GHB - or I will muddle forward using Phenibut more conservatively. Either way, I can’t be reminded of the fact that this will be a bumpy road by continously posting here, and while I see Phenibut as only guiding me back to a state of endocrinological and emotional competence, I just don’t think I can keep coming to this forum and reminding myself of this. I’m going to be around on Google Talk & e-mail, but I really just need a week or two away from this great site. I have too much respect for the work that goes on here to post needlessly.

Thanks so much for your support everyone. I’ll be around, just need to have some breathing room. :sunglasses:

#114

Sometimes it may seem like coming here is a waste and it maybe a waste to you, but it means a lot to the rest of us. I’m sure plenty of people every day come on here thinking “I wonder how 3PM is doing”. I know I do.

Part of the disease is that we lose the ability to give a crap about everything. We are just flatlining through life in a place of false contentment. At least I am. And I think if we had our sense of self awareness, this condition would be ten times more devastating.

#115

Thanks for your kind words… well-appreciated. Especially since I’m in a situation where I am the only one who really cares about this (my own parents have glossed over at this matter). Very very hard on me.

I don’t feel like coming here is a waste of time, but I do it out of habit when the symptoms take me over. I had a recovery and it was not a fluke. It means that this is reversible. I don’t want to keep posting here just because I feel like shit; I am on my way to shooting this fucking nightmare in the head and walking away. I need to let this experience sink in, and I want to go the rest of the way without advertising every nuance of my life’s progress here.

I can’t keep talking about the same old questions because it’s just repetitive. I feel like I have climbed beyond the cycle, and I need to finish what this Phenibut started.

So like I said earlier today, I need to put the old keyboard away for a week or two. I will talk to anyone over Google Talk/e-mail (see profile) who wishes to talk (which I recommend b/c we might get somewhere), but this really is starting to hurt my heart. I just need to see this finished for myself and everyone here.

#116

3PM,

I’ve seen your post about Phenibut and your recovery. How far on recovery would u say u are? how sustained has this recovery been and how are u still using some drug or supplement?

#117

So what you are saying 3pm is that you took Phenibut and GHB and after a few weeks felt relatively normal again?

If so, where did you get Phenibut and GHB?

#118

I have similar damages from psychiatric medications and I am amazed as to how 3com was able to discover his cure. I wish he could use his superior intelligence to help both Propecia and psych med induced damages. I look forward to any future responses from him.

#119

I don’t know if you meant it or not, but this post sounds very sarcastic. I wouldn’t respond to it…

#120

I don’t think any sarcasm was intended. The guy is clearly desperate for some help.