My Sleep Study Results

Hello everyone.

I have undertaken two sleep studies and the results show that there is significant problems with my ability to get into and stay in the deep sleep cycles. Here is the doctors analysis:

"[i]A 10 hour 31 minute NPSG commenced at 19:09, showing a slightly delayed sleep onset of 24.0 minutes. This was then followed by significant periods of WASO (wake after Sleep Onset), meaning that the REM latency was delayed at 196.5 minutes.

Consolidated sleep was archived just prior to 22:00 hours. An early awakening just after 02:00 hours meant that the total sleep time was significantly reduced at 4.7 hours.

There were a number of quite sudden, spontaneous arousals from Slow Wave Sleep[/i]’.

I know members have hypothesized that our sleep problems are due to neurotransmitters/Gaba deficiencies. Well my second study seems to back that up, as Diazepam (Valium) was administered and I slept soundly. Here is the doctors notes on my sleep with valium:

[i]"An 8 hours 29 minute NPSG commenced at 21:31 showing a rapid sleep onset of 4.0 minutes, followed by a normal REM onset of 74.5 minutes. The rest of the study was unremarkable with no sleep pathologies evident.

The total sleep time was increased compared with the first study, at 8.2 hours, and a good sleep efficiency of 96%".[/i]

I am not advocating valium for sleep as its not the cure- I want my brain to sleep by itself! However this does provide evidence that a Gaba disruption does play a role in our sleep issues.

The doctor is referring me to a second sleep disorders clinic for a second opinion- I will press for Xyrem.

Fingers crossed.

hi, im suffering with insomnia too.

the first night i sleep with 0,25mg xanax i sleep wonderfully. then if i keep taking it it starts failing on me.

what is your valium dosage and how many days have you taken this in a row?

if he doesn’t give u xyrem, i think ur next best bet is pregabalin, otherwise trazadone seems also good and pretty inoquous for most people. my doctor told me lorazepam was great and would work but that i would get addicted to it…

Valium no longer works for my sleep. The reason it worked on the sleep study was because it was the first time I had taken it. I believe I took around 4 mg but that doesn’t do anything for me anymore. I did have some success with Gabapentin but again I grew tolerant to it very quickly.

I am hoping to secure the Xyrem as it seems a few users have had great success with it. If I don’t get it through this doctor, I’m turning to the streets! :laughing:

A few supplements have improved my sleep- Magnesium, Calcium and 1mg of Melatonin. I feel like my sleep is getting deeper as I am longer in that ‘light phase’ of sleep where you feel pretty much semi-conscious all night. The only problem I am having is that I seem to awake abruptly with palpitations and still do not feel refreshed.

in my experience melatonin truly sucks. wakes me up even earlier and sleep is poor quality.
magnesium and calcium are either neutral or poorly positive.

i tried everything…tonight it’s trazodone 12.5mg. can already feel my nose stuffy…i seem to have probs with everything.
then will be mianserin…
and only then pregabalin…

and then i’m out of options for sleep, i’ll try to supplement my methilation

benzos don’t provide me refreshing sleep and when they do its at the first try in a long time withouth using them

good luck

I have no doubt, and it leads further evidence to my theory that finasteride r
Destroyed progesterone receptors in the brain in favor of estrogen. Below is a very very very interesting article

m.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/apr20 … one_02.htm

marijuana makes me sleep the whole ñight but then i wake up tired.
can you please tell me which strain and how much you smoke?

last night i tried trazodone 12.5mg because i identified that i react neutrally-positively for 5-ht2A receptor antagonism. and it worked, i rested much better.

if your theory about progesterone were true everyone here would have elevated progesterone blood serum levels I think. is this true?

how would your theory explain a crash though?
once you’re removing fin, it cant destroy progesteron receptors anymore but that’s when the crash happens

“progesterone may also inhibit 5-alpha-reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone”

Why would anyone want to inhibit 5-alpha-reductase again?

Ok great questions, so let’s start. Again this is a theory and my opinion.

Hopingforthebest- I don’t believe inhibiting 5ar is the problem. Why? 1) if progesterone does this then me and others wouldn’t have the good results we are having. Inhibiting 5ar actually decreases DHT levels but increases testosterone. Many people have low testo 2) many people like myself take this drug for years without any problems all he while 5ar is being inhibited. I was feeling amazing for years on propecia. Again the whole time my 5ar is being inhibited but I was ok. 3) there is an insidious nature to the side effects generally, ie the crash. There seems to be a general acute phase ie the crash, followed by a recovery phase, even if it takes years to recover.

Xtrapido- I would say absolutely not, that the PR receptors don’t instantaneously come back on line, it can take years and years. Look at every recovery, the one single element most people share is TIME. I had posted several articles and studies of finasteride and it’s purposeful use on progesterone. There are researchers that apply finasteride on progesteone and it destroys it instantaneously! Sound familiar, sound like a possible crash? Sound like a guy who takes on damn pill or even Half a pill and goes running to the bathroom with testicle pain? I am not sure about progesterone levels perhaps it would lead to higher levels in the body, perhaps our bodies are desperately trying to pump it out, I’m not sure.

it’s good to have these discussions.

my opinion is that if fina destroys progesterone receptors so acutelly you would feel this instantly, still you have here many people who live years on fina like you, perfectly fine. and then one day they crash.

i agree with you that the common variable is time. for most people anyway, seems not for everyone…

i will read you with more attention after work:)

have you had a look on the methylation protocol and oxidative stress? for me this can make sense as gene expression changes can occur gradually, on repeated exposure to new environments. i just ordered some vitamins and i’m gonna try it out once i get them this week.

good luck everyone

sorry, was a bit busy before…

so you meant that fin was counterbalancing the symptoms that would result from destruction of the Progesteron Receptors through an increase in testosterone resulting from DHT Inhibition? Then theoretically reintroducing fin would set you back to pre-crash. I don’t think its the case?

Have i understood correctly?

Are you taking progesterone now? And you experienced full improvement of the symptoms?

xptriado, the thread “Profile” with today’s post by Finatruth answers your questions:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7026&start=400

Sounds good, I will keep an eye on that thread. If this keeps showing results it could indeed be the culprit. We can try to fit an explanation later :slight_smile:

I’m smoking Pot for sleep too.

do you smoke with or withouth tobacco?
i realize it only makes me sleep if it’s withouth tobacco. but then the next day i feel really bad. its like i never slept. and beware i didnt smoke much any of those times

i found a group on facebook where people are posting their experiences for medical conditions and they all say it works well for insomnia if you ingest it or vaporize it. decent vaps are slightly expensive…to ingest it i think you can just decarboxylize it in the hoven and then put like 0.03g in a capsule and eat it. has anyone tried it?

Tobacco at the moment, I am going to use a vaporizer soon though.

Yep, weed gives me a good nights sleep no question.

Just met with the second sleep specialist. I feel very positive about this doctor (he does prescribe xyrem). However, he wants to rule out sleep apnea first- his theory is that the reason I am awakening so much through out the night is because of my breathing. You know, as well as I, that this is not the case. I am hesitant to bring up the propecia because I have no scientific studies that I can present to him that show it has messed up allopregnanolone and gaba production…not sure how to proceed.

That is not the reason you are waking up often between 4:00-6:00 AM

Insomnia was one of my first non-sexual sides with PFS. About 1 yr. into my PFS, I also had a sleep study after seeing a sleep specialist. I went to him because of the PFS insomnia, which meant absolutely nothing to him, since PFS doesn’t fit neatly into his, or any other MD’s playbook. I knew the study would show sleep apnea, because I’ve been a heavy snorer since my late teens (until PFS, I never experienced even the slightest insomnia). Sure enough, the study revealed significant SA.

I started CPAP therapy right after the study (last August) and have used it every night since then. I no longer snore, but my insomnia is only slightly better. I still have 1-3 wake ups a night and rarely get more than 6.5 - 7 hours of sleep. It’s hard to tell if the CPAP did anything or whether my sleep has only improved marginally because of time.

I guess all I’m saying is that treating SA may help your insomnia, but don’t expect miracles. You may want to tell your sleep MD about your Fina use, but don’t be surprised if he disregards it. Best of luck.