How many days did you fast and which sympthoms has improved ?
I fasted for 3 days, many times. I have been intermitent fasting for a few years now. I’ve never eat breakfast. Sometimes I do 24 hours, but every day at least 15/16 hours fast.
The sympthoms recovery was deep insomnia, brain fog, digestion issues. I don’t remember if libido improved with water fast.
An update. I just took 25mg of Proviron now, starting my second cycle. I don’t know how to proceed. I will stick to 50mg for 2 weeks and then maybe go up to 200mg and quit. Or will stick to 50-75 mg until my pills run out. I have 100 pills now which makes 5 boxes of Bayer Proviron.
I don’t know what to say anymore.
Update: Im on 75mg Proviron for 4 days now. I don’t feel good sexually. My penis creates hourglass shape more often before toilet and my libido seems a bit lowered. Why this affecting me bad? Should i use it, not stop, and wait to see some improvements?
I would say don’t stop, just like @pal you are feeling worse but will hopefully improve over time when you stop.
Stopping now is tricky cuz you don’t know what wil happen, maybe you will stay worse now.
I don’t know dude, you have already started may also finish.
Either way it’s your choice, we are here for you whatever you do.
Okay a little update again. I kinda feel panicked right now. For the last few days i feel kinda tired, especially at the evenings. I tried to watch some porn, usually i don’t have any problems to get aroused and getting an erection, never happened. .(Im a mild case) But this time, if not psychologically, i had a hard time getting aroused and to masturbate. Never happened before. I also feel tired now. Semen was low and orgasms was really bad.
If this is not a placebo effect, (which i think it isn’t) Proviron is affecting me badly at 75mg. Im kinda scared that i may be lowering and damaging my baseline androgens or receptors.
If the increased androgens due to Proviron in my blood makes my receptors downregulated, if i quit now, the sudden decrease of androgens would make my receptors more sensitive (what we want to heal) now?
Will i get my baseline back when i stop using Proviron?
Is this situation indicates that i have AR problem?
Should i take a risk and go up to 200mg and quit?
What happens if i quit now?
Should i use it more and see what happens?
I need help from all of you guys, we should discuss this thing thoroughly, especially my first question. I can’t forgive myself if i did more damage to my androgen receptors or whatever is going on. I will relax and sleep now, let’s see the tomorrow.
PS: I didn’t feel any bad on 50mg for 2 weeks at my first cycle. Weird?
I would not worry about low libida and fatigue that should be normal doing proviron protocol due to low estrogen action. Definetly if our problem is because the receptors being overexpressed the longer the run and the big the amount the better.
Proviron does not supress estrogen that much at these doses. But idk. Also, the idea was that using 200mg to re-open the receptors, i don’t think 75mg does the same job on a more mild level… let’s hope so though. Because im not going to try 200mg yet.
Guys, i need your opinions and thoughts on this.
Really the only thing we can use as a reference is PAL. He said he got worse by a lot and only started to recover in the following months after he stopped.
So if we look at PAL story and compare it to your experience I’d say you are right on course.
But if you are doubting this protocol I suggest you play around with the doses, maybe lower it to 50 mg for a week and see how you feel. If you feel better or worse that means something is different.
Or you could bump up the dose and see what that does. Either way I think it’s a bit of a trail and error.
To answer some of your questions:
1: Wasn’t the protocol designed to decrease sensitivity…?
2: No one knows, assuming to PAL you will get better…
3: Might be, might be the cause of PFS entirely. Don’t think anyone knows that.
4: Well… tough to say… it would certainly be very interesting to see what happens since the body reacts differently to each dosage…
5: No one knows, but I presume you go back to base, might take a while though
6: Repeated question, I would say go for it, but if you don’t feel like doing it then don’t.
Good luck bro, and leep us updated.
Thanks for the help. Im not really sure what to do, im probably going to continue using 75mg a day for a month or more. And see what happens. If this won’t work; i will try the 200mg per day that Pal did. That’s my final plan.
(Well i researched many of the existing studies about mesterolone (proviron) all i can say is that it decreases total T, and my total T was already low 450\ng-dl whereas my close and healthy friend had 700ng\dl… (Anyone knows if the decreased total T recovers itself after treatment?) but increases Free T via binding to SHBG. Also decreases Estrogen. LH and FSH seems unaffected and sometimes increased in some people a bit. However i think we could benefit not directly from these efffects and changes, dht itself affects receptors and god knows what Proviron does to our receptors.)
I believe Proviron also lowers cortisol, so part of what makes you feel bad could be that. Once you come off that should normalize.
I know but my sexual symptoms seems a bit worsened too. Idk what to think anymore, anyways at least im trying something and see the reactions.
But, what i don’t get is that if our AR’s are overexpressed on certain tissues why increasing androgens would help us? It is the opposite we we want and should do, right?
So you are taking UltraHard to increase your androgens. But that should make you worse. What is your theory behind all of this? Please explain to me.
But, what i don’t get is that if our AR’s are overexpressed on certain tissues why increasing androgens would help us?
Its possible that ARs are only over expressed in some tissues but not others. So adding androgens helps some symptoms, but makes others worse.
Also the PAL Proviron theory is that adding enough androgens (specifically 5ar reduced ones that can not or rarely aromatize) will cause basically a reversal effect of PFS over multiple cycles.
So you are taking UltraHard to increase your androgens.
I’d like to, but its a gel and I have 3 children under the age of 3 - so I am concerned about transferring it to them with contact.
But that should make you worse. What is your theory behind all of this? Please explain to me.
UltraHard is a bit different than Proviron. Proviron basically is just a strong androgen that doesnt aromatize like testosterone can.
UltraHard is androsterone. It can convert to DHT so can be considered a strong androgen, but also increase allopregenenolone (which I dont believe DHT or Proviron can).
What you should do is get therapy for your obsessive nature about what happened to you. Your symptoms are so mild and your functioning is almost the same as that of a normal person. What are you doing here anymore? I would be so grateful to have your symptoms and would never visit this forum again. At this point it’s your fixation about the condition that’s ruining your life, not the condition itself.
What are you saying man? I have numb orgasms, penis size loss, bad erection quality, libido loss, morning wood loss, semen volume loss, small testicles and hard flaccid symptoms time to time. Is this enough for you? Would you continue to live your life happy with these? Then, there is a problem with you.
Don’t disrespect others conditions again please. @Koivukovy
I’m not disrespecting anyone’s condition, I’m just saying you’re wasting your life not because of the condition, but because of how much you obsess over the symptoms. You’re one of the most active members here, yet your symptoms are probably the mildest in the whole forum. Just looking at your intro, these are your symptoms:
-MY ONGOING SYMPTOMS ARE:
-Low semen volume. (color etc. are fine)
-Duller orgasmic contractions and shorter build-up. Shorter and weak orgasms.
-Loss of morning wood. (maybe im growing idk about this, but for 20 year old male, i think im lack of it)
You have enough functioning to live a normal life. Imo, you’ve obsessed so much about being “100%” again, that youve made the problem so much bigger in your head than it really is. Now you’re experimenting with risky substances that could crash you and make your life a true living hell. It’s obvious at this point that you have an extreme fixation and obsessive thoughts about this. Just saying this in a friendly way but suit yourself.
We need to respect everyone here. We have to unite.
we have to take into account that acquiring PFS with 20 years old is very different than acquiring with 30 years old. The younger you are, the more frustrating you are. When I acquired PFS I had already had a lot of sex and enjoyed this phase from 14 to 30 years old.
Man thats besides the point. I’m just surprised that noone else has told @Cooper what I did. I’m trying to point out to him that while he still has his youth and still is able to perform sexually normally or close to normal and isn’t crippled by other symptoms, he should take advantage of that instead of wasting his life here.
Don’t worry im now wasting my life or anything, lol. It’s not taking my much time to visit here few minutes a day. Im here because i choosed to be here. I wanted because im not a let it all-go kind of a person and want to recover. I used Accutane at 16, so you can imagine the trauma i have, i guess. Thank you for your advice, but let’s keep this thread on the topic @Koivukovy