My problem...............advice anyone?

19: Sometimes I imagine that these vision symptoms have been reduced and sometimes I don´t. But I can say for sure that it has not gone.

In particular, trying to explain the vision problem is the worst . It is very hard to pin point and describe symptoms without sounding like you are crazy or on narcs. But the problem is there, I know. Just the thought of not really trusting your eyes is very disturbing.

I will try to explain my symptoms as they appear for me:
-I experience intense individual white spots in my vision. It gets worse when I am stressed.
-Reading gives me headache because of the contrast of black letters on white paper burn in to my vision so every word I focus on leave a shadow in my vision so the text just smears up.

  • a phenomenon that seems like these “floaters”(=transparent worm like structures that can be seen when you really relax your eyes and look at a blue sky) have increased much in quantity and clustered up. They appear like tiny dark clouds/shadows in the background and is dragging around wherever you look. Very disturbing
    -When looking up at light up ceilings and without moving my head, just moving my eyes, i.e. moving focus, form left to right it appears to be a jellyfish like substance in the background of my vision dragging.

These vision symptoms, I don´t even wish my worst enemy had.

19, are these symptoms anything like yours?

I began getting floaters while on the drug…but nothing like what you’re experiencing in terms of vision…just floaters that appear when I’m looking at bright white surfaces…

Anyways…the floaters did not arise until about 2.5 years on the drug during a time when I was also drinking a pretty substantial amount of coffee…just out of curiosity, does this relate?

My symptoms in some ways are similar. I get the black dots in my vision and there has been an increase in floaters. Reading isn’t easy but its not impossible. My problem though is more to do with focusing. There is a lag phase before it actually focuses. As i said colours are slightly different in each eye even thought its switches around. Also i’ve become very light sensitive - halos and what not and alot of glare.My eyes tend to water as it gets too much for me. I have to look at the ground. This plus the crustiness in the mornings is hell. The funny thing is most of this is possibly stress related. My sexual side effects suddenly dropped back to square one again recently which is not good as i swear things were improving. The adrenal fatigue theory seems to be making sense with me. Maybe this is preventing recovery in all areas. I only took the drug for a month and hormones appear normal. I refuse to believe it is irreversible. You should get an MRI done if you’re eyes are ok coz problems in the occipital lobe can cause visual problems and other nerves may be affected. It may put you at eas as well if no problems. If there are no visible problems get rid of all stress factors.

Tell me, are you very depressed? Because my vision gets fucked up when I am SO depressed. Really. So depression can cause problems.
Just my experience…

19:
What are your symptoms at the moment? Your original post reflects my situation quite accurately.
I have similar problems with my vision. It started with severe pain behind the eye and now it’s more like trouble focusing and some kind of lag. It’s really hard to describe, like you have to concentrate on your vision and your eyes feel heavy and sensitive to light. I had an MRI which was clean and my doctor found nothing abnormal with my vision/eyes.

I have said already the problems i have been having. From what you are saying it sounds similar. Let me know if you improve. Its been 9 months or so now and i have had little improvement. I’m under alot of stress with exams when i go back which isn’t helping. I plan to have a normal blood check up done again and testosterone too. Maybe cortisol. I am convinced the adrenal fatigue issue is part of the problem. For example if adrenaline kicks in in my body i feel weak and nearly blackout. Eyes are still bad and sexual function only slightly better. Mental function varies throughout the day. Its ok(not great) at 9am then at 10.30-5.00 i’m very slow and then by 10pm i feel knackered but then i wake up by 11.00 so i don’t sleep. I wish i could just get my eyes back. Floaters, light sensitivity, waking up with painful eyes …well i’ve said it before. Also my ability to enjoy things is not high. Christmas seems like a distant pleasure which is upsetting in itself. Anyway i hope everyone has a good christmas.

oh and hair loss is worse than ever. I seem to get a greasy scalp as well which is new. DHT level was high but high DHT shouldn’t be a problem.

masturbation also blurs my head up afterwards as well. Alcohol screws me over too.

oh and sleeping is as refreshing as being hit over the head.

guys it’s without a doubt adrenal fatigue and possibly a thyroid issue as well. 19 i know exactly how you feel the unrefreshing sleep, the inablity to focus, the fatigue during the day, just the general sluggishness etc. Granted my sexual sides aren’t nearly as bad as most of the guys on here, but my adrenal and thyroid problems are probably worse. I noticed immiedietly after starting propecia my sleep was screwed up. It was something I never experienced in my life it was like i was going to sleep at night but not really sleeping and upon waking up i felt like total trash and couldnt get out of bed. In normal people who get adrenal fatigue it usually comes on gradually over a period of years with prolonged periods of stress until they get the more severe symptoms like we have. For some reason and I don’t know why perhaps extreme damage or hormonal changes within the adrenal cortex i dunno, but propecia seems to immedietly bring about severe adrenal fatigue that only gets worse and worse. My adrenal fatigue has led to my thyroid condition as the two are sometimes linked so I know I have both of these to deal with as well. The tough part is adrenal problems are tremendously difficult to fully overcome from all the research i’ve done. I think this is because medical science just doesn’t know much about how they really function. Also damage to the adrenals due to them becoming fatigued tends to be permanent for some reason so we all very well maybe f#@$ed. Just go to any forum about adrenal fatigue and you will see people there with similar symptoms similar to ours where they have tried for years to overcome them but still have not. I had a phone consult with a doctor a couple weeks ago, one of the leading hormonal experts in the US, and he put me on a regime of vitamins and thyroid hormone, as he feels it is all realted to the sleep wake cycle being disturbed causing the adrenal fatigue etc. This would seem to make sense as all the problems started with my sleep on propecia, and my sleep still continues to suffer 9 months later ie insomnia etc. I too have seen my health progressively get worse over the past 9 months and yes here at school alcohol has a very negative effect on me because it is very stressing on the adrenals. I plan on trying the dr.'s protocol and getting on some hydrocortisone as well in the near future. I will keep everyone updated on my situation.

I do not agree with this being permanent. The body can heal itself in this situation with sufficient time and under the right conditions. Be optimistic or you will only get worse. Stress is not good and sleeping is important. A good nights sleep will help.

Have you checked your blood pressure? Someone said that high BP can cause vision problems. Are your private parts still bent to the left? Interesting that it’s to the left for everyone.

My cortisol/adrenals are also messed up, and had extreme problems with tolerating alcohol and gained weight like crazy.

Needless to say, I too have had a merrier christmas.

1 Like

i agree that the human body can heal itself however if there is permanent damage to your adrenal glands to the point where someone is low adrenal like many of us are than it is very very difficult to recover from. Yes i’ve heard of people recovering from what were going through the hypoadrenal and hypothyroid etc however it usually takes years. Therefore, it’s important to look into how to correct it and i feel that by getting on HC it gives me the best chance. research into adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid problems. the two are interrelated and im confident that that’s what most of us are experiencing.

Could someone clear up a question for me? If there is adrenal problems does that mean there is high cortisol in the blood or low because stress would push it up surely? If so why give hydrocortisone which is more cortisol? This would surely worsen the matter.

well adrenal problems like ours did probably start out with having high levels of cortisol but since our adrenals were overworked now they’re extremely low during certain periods of the day hence why hydrocortisone is helpful in the manner. I’ve done a ton of research on adrenal fatigue and why this is happening to us and I’m pretty sure I have it figured out to an extent, at least my situation. First off I highly recommend reading Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jefferies. The title throws the whole book off because it isn’t just about administering hydrocortisol he also goes into great depth about how the whole adrenal cortex functions. Basically, the adrenal cortex produces various hormones such as cortisol that all work together balancing each other out on a daily cycle. What most people don’t realize is that DHT isn’t some by product of testosterone that just causes hair loss. It is a vital hormone secreted FROM THE ADRENAL GLANDS, that’s right just like cortisol, epiniepherene etc DHT works in conjunction with about 6 hormones all secreted by the adrenal cortex. Now, it’s also important to note your adrenal glands aren’t just simply some lymph gland in your body or even like the thyroid. If your adrenal glands were removed without proper exstensive adrenal hormone replacements being given you would die within a week or so. I think if most guys knew this before propecia they would really think twice about taking it. Anyway, back to adrenal, there are basically 7 different stages which can be seen here chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html. It’s important to note yes cortisol levels do rise in the first three stages and DHEA levels fall and cant keep up pace. Over time though by stage 4, which I would assume most of us are in by now, levels take a plunge and become low. Hence, the reason why there’s times during the day when you get those fatigue spells we all go through it’s due to low cortisol levels. Tons of the symptoms such as the mental fog, weight gain, low T even are all related to low cortisol levels. The problem with treating adrenal fatigue is that in reality despite what you might find while researching it, adrenal fatigue is very rare. Sure everyone will get burnt out from time time, but most healthy people just get rest and get better. When it does happen on that rare occasion in people who dont take propecia it’s something that usually develops over a period of years. It seems though that guys that take propecia, such as myself where the situation has just gotten worse over a period of months, it’s something that happens right away. hence we are thrown right into stage 4 adrenal fatigue in a matter of weeks. That being said, adrenal function is also related to thyroid function as i am also hypothyroid and imagine many of the other guys on here are as well. Without proper thyroid hormone getting to the body and more so the brain extreme fatigue and depression can occur. The problem with hypothyroid is that the lab tests they do are basically meaningless, TSH is worthless and free T3 and T4 levels can appear to be normal in the blood if there isnt enough cortisol to deliver them to the cells. The actual best way to test if you are hypothyroid is to buy a decent thermometer and upon waking up take your temperature. If your temp is anywhere below 98.6 within like .4 degrees you are hypothyroid, period the end. I’ve been tracking my temp for the past week and it’s usually 96-97. I have much more to offer on this subject but Im tired so i will post later. Basically, I believe we can recover however there is an underlying cause for all of this. The guy on here Paul Walters despit being a nutjob is acutally very much right in his approach to taking GHB and getting good sleep. I can speak for myself when I say that all my problems I feel stem from the fact that I haven’t really slept for the past 9 months. I used to get deep refreshing sleep before all of this and now get no where close to it. And sleep is the period where all our hormones are balanced out and regenerated etc its vital for normal function. Hence, fix the sleeping problem fix most of the propecia problems over time. I just wish i could get ahold of some GHB, perfectly harmless substance when used properly that the US gov’t doesnt want people to have cause they know they can make more money selling it as a prescription as they’re doing now.

I totally agree with you on the GHB and sleep thing ‘Ithappens’. I was just thinking TODAY about how I am going to Mexico for a week this saturday, and wondering if I could get my hands on something of the sort.
I feel the same way with regard to sleep, haven’t really slept well in 9 months myself as a matter of fact, and would really REALLY like to get my hands on some GHB myself.

I have noticed that the more I am relaxed, and when I get better sleep, my erections are better, morning wood, and everything.

Thanks for the post man.
Any ideas on what I should get while in Mex…?

boston, yea the hormonal doctor i talked to out in michigan basically nailed it on the head when he told me that basically I haven’t slept in 9 months since taking the stuff. The problem is when we go to sleep our central nervous system doesnt shut off and allow ourselves to regenerate and repair ourselves. hence why the adrenals get overworked and we all suffer. that guy paul on here is absolutely right when he says the body can heal itself it just needs the sleep to do it. The doctor out in michigan put me on a protocol of vitamins along with my thyroid hormone. Im taking lots of B and C vitamins for the adrenals throughout the day and also vit-d, 5-htp, and GABA at night which I have been doing for the past three days. It’s all about shutting the body off. I’ve done this for the past three days and so far it has basically cured the insomnia the I was having where I couldnt sleep during the night for the life of me. I can go to bed now fairly easily and I dont wake up quite as tired. But the problem is i still dont wake up refreshed at all and still have most of the mental sides and lack of energy during the day. However, while i doubt i will ever be able to ahold of some GHB i am going to go to every sleep specialist in the world if i have to in order to get on Xyrem (prescription GHB). I think all this running around with endos and hormones is on the right track but the sleep is the underlying the problem. I’ve always sort of said with this whole propecia ordeal, all my problems started with my sleep and they’re going to end with my sleep.

another thing that’s interesting that i will note. I’m not nor have ever been a avid marijuana user, I’ve only tried it a few times. However, over the summer I tried it on a few occasions and here is what happened. I had to drop my parents off at the airport at 4am for their vacation so my body was already tired throughout the day and ready for sleep at night. Later on sometime before bed I had a small amount of marijuana at the party my brother and i threw in our house (yes parents gone it was party time). basically, between being tired and the type of marijuana it was it knocked me out and when i woke up the next day i felt so so so so refreshed. it was unreal probably similar to the whole GHB ordeal. And i know that it wasnt just a random thing because the girl I went to sleep with that night who also smoked with me said the same exact thing. After this i tried again on a few occasions but to no avail it never really had the same effect with the refreshing sleep. However, the one thing to note about GABA pathways etc while I didnt get deep sleep everytime i smoked i did feel like I was quicker, like the brainfog was completely gone.

check out phenibut. It reduces anxiety, makes you think better and sleep better. Its related to GABA and its entirely legal. I’m thinking of getting it.

well you might as well take GABA itself because it’s the closest one will most likely get to it. I’m supposed to take 500mg at night but i usually take around 1500-2000mg to help me get to sleep. It does seem to help unwind me a bit and along with the 5-HTP it allows me to get to sleep so at least i dont have the chronic insomnia i used to, but i still wake up very unrefreshed and can not stay asleep for more than 6 hours or so. anyway, im desperate to get my hands on GHB, i’m telling you that is the cure i think for many of us. When i look in the mirror it literally looks like i havent slept for close to a year which i havent. Im going to try to go to a sleep specialist and get on xyrem. this whole thing started with my sleep and it’s all going to end with my sleep.