I also feel a lot better when I smoke a lot of thc which increases estrogen. But wouldn’t clomid without anti estrogen medication be a cure?
For some clomid has been claimed to cure. I tried it and got some benefit for a while but it made me feel funky. Clomid will also raise e2
hcg also raises estrogen. my estrogen is 118 reference 10-48. so very high. I am using hcg and arimidex. arimidex was unable to lower estrogen. Do you believe increasing estrogen is the key?
I have been taking l-carnitine (ALCAR) and Rhodoila for years. Also cycling, although not strict at 2 weeks on and off. I will adjust my dosages to try that. I will also up the dose to 2g per day per the study below. I think I’ve typically done 1-1.5g.
FWIW, LCLT is the actual type of carnitine that studies showed helped. However, you can assume ALCAR or other types of carnitine work as well.
Carnitine Stimulates The Synthesis Of Androgen Receptors
Prior to the discovery of carnitine stimulating the production of more androgen receptors, this was a fantasy only imagined in the minds of researchers and athletes alike. Yes, carnitine if one of the very few things that can bring about an increase in the number of androgen receptors found in the male body, as well as “upregulating” them, or making more sensitive to the effects of androgens[[i]
But why is this important? Because it is considered the rate limiting step on how fast you can build muscle. A good analogy to put this into perspective would be to consider testosterone as “passengers” at a bus terminal, and the buses as “androgen receptors”.
There is a limited number of buses/seats, which means that only so many people can be accommodated at once. Increase the number of buses (receptors), and in turn more passengers can board and get to where they need to be (the testosterone).
Thus, [carnitine] is one of the few things that can yield greater results than that obtained from increasing testosterone levels only. As a result, greater muscle synthesis occurred, and better preservation of lean muscle tissue
while dieting or trying to reduce body fat.
On this same topic, weight training, tribulus, and intermittent fasting both have shown to increase AR density just like carnitine.
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Just FYI this post:
I have been researching and it sounds like a minimum timeframe to see improvements would be around 6 months. I have began taking ALC and will try to stick with it for at least 6 months and hopefully create a log to document changes.
Seems like (and i could be wrong here,) that the people in the link above seemed to benefits but maybe didn’t cycle it as long as they needed?
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@das @BibFortuna You two asked similar questions. I still cycle the Acetyl L-Carnitine and every two or three months (it’s not an exact science) I will cycle the Rhodiola again. I want to stress that I only continue this regimen for all around well being. I am sure if I discontinued both of them entirely I would still be “recovered”. These supplements are good for more than just curing PFS.
If you stick to that schedule you should start to see significant improvement at around 3 months - or at least I did.
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This is a great recovery story. My drug/symptom history is almost identical (substitute paroxetine for the accutane). I’ve been suffering from this shit since 2009 and only just started making some improvements with DHT (Proviron); but this is by far easier, safer, and cheaper. I’m definitely going to add these in after my current PCT ends.
There must be something “enhancing” about Rhodiola, since the world’s most sophisticated cheaters (Russians) were interested in it:
I did have one question: Do you take these supplements with food or empty stomach?
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@Livid171: I am very happy for your recovery and thank you very much for comming back to us. May I ask you if you also had erectile dysfunction (i.e. no or less morning/nocturnal/spontaneous etc. erections)?
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Don’t see this as an attack please: But I can’t comprehend how you’ve been on this forum for 9 years and are still saying such simplified statements like “weight lifting, tribulus, and fasting increase androgen receptors just like carnitine”
Because “Tribulus” is actually a combination of Protodioscin and anti-androgenic filler compounds, usually leaves and stems. Fasting stimulates the AMPK pathway which is anti-androgenic. Anti-androgenic in this case meaning it’s decreasing androgen receptors.
I believe that anti androgens can be good for PFS. I think anti-androgenic action, however you achieve it, is plays a role in most recoveries. But to insinuate “Oh, OP took L-Carnitine which increases AR, that’s why he recovered, I’m going to try this myself” is without context, and ostensibly wrong, because I do believe it was the combination of Rhodiola, which contains anti-androgenic compounds as all herbs do, in combination with the pro-androgenic ALC, both strategically dosed, that lead to his recovery.
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There is actually nothing factually incorrect about my statement that "weight lifting, tribulus, and fasting increase androgen receptors just like carnitine”. I can provide research if you wish. In addition, Forskolin, Capsicum, Niacinamide, and Mucuna Pruriens do as well. For anyone interested, I’m about to trial all of them together w ALCAR to see if there are any benefits.
I understand tribulus very well and its components, in fact using it in combination with mucuna pruriens is literally the only thing that has ever given me a recovery in my sexual symptoms, although it no longer works for me. I commented on "weight lifting, tribulus, and fasting (I actually meant intermittent fasting) because people have had success with them in the past and they share a common biological effect to ALCAR.
The reason I did not mention or focus on Rhodoila is because (a) I already have been taking is consistently for years and (b) there are at least 2 other recoveries on this forum from individuals who took ALCAR in high doses (without Rhodoila). With that said, I love Rhodoila.
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If you fast for 24 hours right now, by the 24th hour you will have the AMPK pathway open and your receptors will be getting DOWNREGULATED. If you fast for more than 24 hours the downregulation will be MORE SIGNIFICANT the longer you fast.
The number of people who have recovered from Tribulus is far greater than the number of people that have recovered from L-Cartinine. Because Tribulus contains BOTH anti androgenic compounds and the pro-androgen protodioscin. There IS no comparison to L-cartinine because that is only pro-androgen. OP recovered by taking a anti-androgen Herb supplement with a pro-androgen ALC. The ALC did not work until he added the anti androgen.
Again I’m not against you doing that protocol at all, I’m purely trying to make clear what these herbs, amino acids, and lifestyle choices are actually doing to us. Most of the “pro-androgen” things people do are actually anti-androgen, and that’s exactly why they work.
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so taking fin is possible cure ?
You’re talking about anti androgenic “filler compounds” tell me what they are, besides beta sitosterol that is found in some tribulus products, what else is anti androgenic?
Why besides beta-sotoristol? It inhibits 5-ar, some people have even tried to use it for hairloss. Already that’s enough to know the fillers are anti androgenic.
But because it’s leaves and stems it could also have stuff like DIM in it.
You do know not all tribulus products contain beta sitosterol right? The rest of what you say is pure speculation.
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Of course it’s fucking speculation. Stop expecting me to know everything, I’m going based off of my experience on a herbal supplement that is a 5-ar inhibitor and explicitly states it has “Leaves, stems, and flowers” on the side yet makes me better.
I would like to see a tribulus product that has 100% of beta sitosterol removed. I just checked Mediherb and Vemoherb and even they both say it’s 60% saponins. They both state on the label that they contain aerial parts. Since saponins are only part of Tribulus to contain protodioscin, I wonder what the other 40% is composed of, smart guy?
I’m asking for proof and not just you speculating, smart guy. But fine you can’t give me any real sources for your claims, that’s ok.
And we don’t know what it’s in the other 40%, maybe we should ask mediherb and vemoherb if their products contain beta sitosterol. For now I assume not or maybe in extremely low quantities.
-Zonz- Fasting stimulates the AMPK pathway which is anti-androgenic. Anti-androgenic in this case meaning it’s decreasing androgen receptors.
Again, I was talking about intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding.
The easiest way to prone your androgen receptors for optimal testosterone uptake is intermittent fasting. Simply skipping your breakfast and pushing the first meal of the day as far as you can is a method that works very well. A small study showed that a fast of 12 to 56 hours improved testosterone response up to 180% in lean, but not in obese men.
Another study found out that after 10 day water fast their testosterone had a downward trend of approximately 15–20%. When re-feeding after the prolonged fast with normal meals the participants’ testosterone levels went up significantly higher than before the fasting baseline values. One guy even went from around 600 ng/dl to 1600 ng/dl. The explanation for this phenomenon is that fasting primes your body to be more receptive of testosterone which means higher androgen receptor sensitivity.
A 2016 study on healthy men showed that eight weeks of the 16/8 diet decreased the amount of circulating testosterone and increased the sensitivity of androgen receptors. This came with added benefits of lower fat mass, maintained muscle mass and strength, suggesting that circulating testosterone was being used more efficiently and exerting a stronger androgenic effect.
Fasting short-term (an overnight fast – a good night’s rest) showed to increase the GnRH-elicited LH response by 67% in the non-obese group, and the corresponding testosterone response by 180%, meaning increased androgen sensitivity.
Intermittent fasting works well, having been shown to almost double androgen sensitivity.
Robert W. Morton1, 2, Koji Sato3, Michael P. Gallaugher2, Sara Y. Oikawa1, 2, Paul D. McNicholas2, Satoshi Fujita4 and Stuart M. Phillips1. “Muscle Androgen Receptor Content but Not Systemic Hormones is Associated with Resistance Training-Induced Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy in Healthy, Young Men,” Front. Physiol. | doi: 10.3389/fphys.2018.01373 (full text yet to be published).
With all that said, many of us have adrenal issues and any form of fasting may not always be the best option.
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