My Long PFS Journey

Member Stories
#193

We are of the same age Man. What a coincidence :slight_smile:

I, too, mainly had issues with sexual issues especially in the arousal/libido department. I agree your total Testosterone is borderline low. Mine hovers around 440 - 500 and I feel it when it goes any lower. I noticed that when ever I manage to elevate my T to be 500 - 600ish and achieve a minimum E2 of ~19 pg/ml, my raging libido and boners would come back full swing.

Your free T is ok’ish, which means your SHBG is likely in a good range, but I feel that raising your T to 500-600ish range would be a game changer for you.

That said, I wish you had your E2 tested. Having high T with low E2 (i.e. < 19) never gave me back my sexuality. Using Clomid at 12.5mg EOD raised my T to high 700s but killed my libido. ANYTHING that lowers E2 while raising T never works for me, as simple as that.

It has to be something that raises both T and Estradiol to a good ratio. I suggest you test the following:
T, E2, SHBG, TSH, Cortisol

You can try 80mg/d Tongkat ali from brand Source Natural & 3000mg/d D-Aspartic Acid from Bulk Supplements for a week and judge how you feel. Combine that with 4x per week resistance training and quality sleep and enough calories (fat & carbs). In the mean time, steer clear from anything that lowers estrogen until you get it tested via sensitive assay.

#194

Update:

125mg Bromelain (containing 150 GDU) and 1000mg Omega 3 seem to be helping with my inflammation. My eczema appears to be resolving and not itchy as before. This is a good sign. However, it could just be that the Probiotic effect is phasing out.

Bromelain is very potent, though. I took 500mg as a first dose and made me very nauseous! I could barely tolerate 125mg/day.

#195

I have been on anti-histamines more than finasteride and they did not helped me. though high dose niacin and fish oil really cured my joint pains and urticaria. I am free from anti-histamines after 17 years.

#197

Dude I’m currently suffering from joints problems and uticaria. I never had these before, like ever! They appeared out of nowhere after I took a round of Probiotics with L. Reuteri bacteria. I read they’re histamine producing strains and this is probably triggering my immune system into hyper mode. I’m trying to revert back to normal.

I didn’t want to use anti-histamine drugs so I opted for bromelain & fish oil. I’m a firm believer now that my gut is part of this whole ordeal. I’m researching FMT and reading about patient stories. I wish I could find a reputable clinic and a super donor to get it done. There was a thread on hairloss talk for a poster claiming hair regrowth ang higher testosterone level from FMT.

#198

Brother double your fish oil intake and if you can endure, take 500mg plain niacin every night (If you can endure flush) also, niacin enhances erections and orgasmic feeling right after flush dissapates. This combo kills joint pains. EPA dose must be higher than 1.5g daily. I was taking 750mg epa 180mg dha fish oil daily for a year and one day I noticed that expiration date is close so I started to take it day and night several days later, I noticed that something is different, all my morning stiffness and knee pain was gone…

Also brother make a gene test and check if you have hla-b27. It causes Seronegative Spondyloarthritis… an inflammation without blood markers (rheumatoid factor, crp, anti nuclear antibodies are all negative) extremely hard to diagnose in early phases, it can easily mixed with psycho-somatic pain and it is highly sensitive to gut microbiota.

#199

Just as a warning around this, at least one member from here reports it made them worse from my brief look through a search. Worth bearing in mind

#200

Thank you for sharing @Tzinkman I also read that yet it really helps with joint pains I am on extremely crazy doses on aromasin 25 mg every other day, at one time I was taking 2 mg anastrozole daily then 25 mg Aromasin daily, because of fish oil and niacin I could endure extreme joint pains.
And for the link I specifically recommended EPA fish oil. And yes it is anti-inflammatory that’s how it helps with joint pains and overactive immune system. It is also important how you get these fish oils? Definitely you should not take cod liver oil and prefer triglyceride ones. Also that’s an old work on liver.

Also I had high triglycerides/cholesterol and fatty liver disease. After this combo they miraculously disappeared too. My physician took me off from statins. My urticaria disappeared along the way. But most important thing is my god damn morning stiffness gone!!! I am able to sleep for hours without worrying about neck or upper back pain…

Yet the most important thing is this study, i think;

1 Like
#201

I have made my estradiol (E2) too low with AIs (arimidex and aromasin). This disease of PFS is not an estrogen disease!
Too little E2 does in fact cause a lot of what you guys posted. Lack of erections, achy muscles and joint, joint tendon deterioration, gaining weight despite the conventional wisdom about aromatase.
Women take AIs after being diagnosed with breast cancer and they report chemotherapy cognitive impairment/brain fog in addition to the other side effects. Even antiPFS Wikipedia has a wiki on this kind of cognitive impairment.
Estrogen/estradiol is necessary for brain function!!!

2 Likes
#202

THANK YOU!!!

FINALLY someone who knows what I’m talking about! I’ve posted zillion studies about E2 & the brain! Even scientists are just beginning to understand that it’s low E2 (Not Testosterone per se) that’s killing Men libido as they grow older. The tricky part is that without enough Testosterone you can’t have optimal E2.

As promised, I had a bloodwork done today at 11:00am and I’m posting the results:

• LH: 6.13 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)
• Testosterone: 18.22 nmol/L (525 ng/dL)
• E2: 41.18 pmol/L (11.16 pg/mL)
• TSH: 0.903 mIU/ml (0.27 - 4.2)
• Ferritin: 158 ng/ml (30 - 400)
• DHEA-s: 3.93 mcg.mol/L (2.41 – 11.6)
• T/E2: ~48 (ideal should be 15-25)

Ok so I’m back to square one having very low E2 and I’m currently experiencing every symptom in the book. Actually, I’ve grown to be so familiar with my body that I can sense when my E2 drops too low!

I had previous success in the past year increasing E2 to be borderline low normal but there must be something that I’ve done that shot it down. My current symptoms include emotional blunting, low libido, low motivation, lethargy, achy sore joints, low back pain, tendonitis, cold hands and feet, poor short term memory, low mood, headaches, frequent urination, weak nocturnal and morning erections, absent spontaneous erections. This is all happening despite normal Testosterone level.

My calculated T/E2 ratio is 48 and the ideal is 15 - 30. I’ll review my journals to revert back to my previous routine.

Take home message: GET THAT DAMN E2 IN RANGE OR BE DOOMED!

2 Likes
#203

I would like to know an efficient method of increasing estradiol levels kindly. Perhaps with a diet rich in soy? My E2 is also very low, and it certainly contributes to the lack of libido and erections.

#204

Sorry but SOY won’t do SH…T about your E2! Actually it may lowers it further! The hypothesis that Men are experiencing high estrogen levels these days because they are eating a lot of soy and other phytoestrogens foods and are exposed to xenoestrogens is total horse SH…T ! It’s ridiculous.

Eating phytoestrogens lowers E2 not increase it. I proved my theory through challenging 4 of my friends who are in the same age group as me and are experiencing low libido, poor erections and mental issues to get their Testosterone & E2 levels tested and guess what “THEY WERE ALL HAVING LOW E2”. Btw, none of them have ever touched finesteride.

E2 is made in this manner:

  1. Conversion from Testosterone via aromatase
  2. Produced directly from testicles
  3. Produced from adrenals
  4. Re-absorbed from the gut after being deactivated by the liver and dumped into the bile

So to increase your E2, you need to increase total Testosterone and optimize T --> E2 Conversion. Don’t take anything that blocks aromatase enzyme. Check you DHEA-s level and make sure it’s within normal range. Improve your gut function.

Sorry but these are the only things on top of my head now. I just checked my journal and saw that my Vitamin D has gone up from 35 ng/ml to 45 ng/ml. This could partially explain why my E2 went down because fat soluble vitamins are known to bring E2 down.

I dare to say it now; it’s NOT PFS per se that’s causing my symptoms now. It’s E2 + inflammation

I had PFS for a long time but I’m facing a different issue now. It could very much be PFS that have triggered this hormonal shift for me, though.

#205

Best way for me to raise E2 is Clomid. That raises LH, FSH, E2, and testosterone. If your testes are working, that is. Most of us do have working testes, they just need to be woken up by Clomid.

1 Like
#206

Have you had success to start your testosterone production with Clomid? Whats the actual mechanism behind Clomid? I actually asked Clomid from my doctor over year ago. But it was replaced by Letrozol on our country and he gave me that. Of course it was a huge mistake because my E2 was allready low. On that time I didnt know that it was PFS what I was dealing with. Im basicly strugling the same type of issues as Doomed, so I have low testo, low E2, low LH but high FSH. So in theory, Clomid would be something to consider if that could get the testo production started. On Letrozol I did have very high testo but it didnt affect to my symptoms because my E2 was low all the time.

#209

I used Clomid (12.5mg EOD) for a month to try to increase both T & E2 but I didn’t feel much improvement from it. It did increase my E2 to 22 pg/mL but my SHBG also went up.

Like I said, combining Clomid with Proviron might prove useful and I saw a few guys reporting success. I’ll have to try that myself to see if it really works, but first I want to try everything before I take that route.

My current strategy:

  • Lower Vitamin D level to ~35 ng/ml. I wish I can find a way to lower Vitamin D level faster.

  • Stop taking anything that might inhibit/block aromatase enzyme.

  • Increase Testosterone level further

  • Try horny goat weed. They say it’s estrogenic but I’m not sure.

  • Work on my gut. Need to fix the inflammation.

  • Get tested again for E2 and see if my level is normalizing

#210

So does managing E2 levels can cure you? Have you tried anything? I think low E2 is just a secondary symptom of silenced AR. Also i suggest keto diet to cure your gut.

#211

I have high e2 despite constant aromatase inhibition.
Also i am way more better with increased T/e2 ratio.

May be everybody reacts differently or some how pfs disturbed natural e2 production or change receptor effectiveness…

I have used ai everyday for two months and my e2 did not go down. stayed on 34 pg/ml

Yet if i stay in ai too long my dick looses girth.
If i take a brake then my libido goes down.

It is very hard to find correct t/e2 ratio.

1 Like
#212

This is very, very interesting.

I have a few questions if you may:

  1. What is your Testosterone level?
  2. What is your DHT level?
  3. Did you use sensitive assay to measure your E2?
  4. What is your AI? Arimidex, Aromasin, Letrozol?
  5. Are you overweight?
  6. At what E2 level do you feel youe best?
  7. Did tou use finesteride? If yes, when did you quit?

Thanks pal.

#213

This is very, very interesting.

I have a few questions if you may:

  1. What is your Testosterone level?
  2. What is your DHT level?
  3. Did you use sensitive assay to measure your E2?
  4. What is your AI brand and dose? Arimidex, Aromasin, Letrozol?
  5. Are you overweight?
  6. At what E2 level do you feel your best?
  7. Did you use finesteride? If yes, when did you quit?

Thanks pal.
.

#214

One last question please. Are you currently on TRT?

#215

I will share my ai progress link all the lab results are under it brother.

I have used it from 2005 to 2012 not sure about exact dates but 7 years we can say that.

I noticed softened erections while i was on fin i stopped it gone better then slowly worsened over time i lost libido after 9 months then ed worsened with reduced sensitivity i tried to use some male enhancement pills in 2016 contains yohambine pregneleon dhea and crashed on it so hard then my mental symptoms started. I got mental relief with methylfolate methylphenidate combination. Last summer i decided to quit from methylphenidate then i crashed so hard on libido i restarted it then went to see some urologists two of them told me that it is happened because of finasteride and there is no cure… then i started my research and found this forum and give a shot to aromatase protocol.

Yes i am little bit overweighted but muscular. Going gym 4 days per week.
In fact that, i can gain muscle so easily most of the people think that i am taking steroids.

No i am not on any TRT i am just taking Aromasin 25 mg every other day with cycles.
Supplements are fish oil, niacin, tribulus.