My Long PFS Journey

hey again… So I believe this all was caused by my severe caloric restriction/eating disorder I developed as well as overtraining… Looking back I now accept that I had some body image issues, but who doesn’t?!? I truly don’t know what depression is, I can say that I have never been depressed… Before It was mostly highs, now its just empty feeling, I dont feel doomed/suicidal.

About 6 months into the diet and training I noticed that my morning wood was absent, then hit it me its been absent for a long time? As well as my libido… I remember panicking and trying to get an erection, but it was cold and wouldn’t respond. Believe it or not I even felt my testicles and it was like they were the size of 3 or 4 raisins… It went away a little and I would say the right testicle has fully recovered, but my left testicle feels 40% of normal size…

I Immediately gained the weight back as it seemed the obvious culprit… even quit cardio completely , ate a bunch of peanut butter sandwiches, meats, eggs etc… No difference in anything… Eventually tested t and it came back at mid 400’s and for a long time I thought this was the issue… However Total T has been in upper 600’s for the last 2 years and 0 improvement in symptoms which lead me to doing research where I read about e2 and dht…

Thyroids

TSH: 2,320 (0,35-4,94)
T4: 101 (63-151)
Anti-TPO: <0.5 (up to 5,6)
Anti-TG 1,0 (up to 4,1)
FT3 4,6 (2,9-4,9)
FT4 11,9 (9-19)


Hormones

LH 4,5 (1,7-8,6)
FSH 3,2 (1,5-12,4)
Test 21,2 (8,6-29)
SHBG 28 (18-54) last test showed 19
Prolactin 285 (86-254) seems high to me , but no one seems to care
ACTH 8,1 (1,6-13,9)
Cortisol 486 (133-537) first test was high at 748
Dhea-s 12,51 (4,34-12,2) **** HIGH
E2 12 (11.5-35)***** LOW!?
DHT 176 (350-850) **** LOW!?
Progesterone 0,12 (up to 0,15)

Growth Hormone <0,050 (up to 10)
IGF-I 216 (115-355)

Insulin I 15,7 miU/L
Insulin II 92,1 miU/L
Name of test OGGT 2H (0’120’)


Proteins
Albumins 68,7 (58-70) %
Alfa 1 globulin 1,9 (1,0-2.8) %
Alfa 2 Globulin 8.8 (7.0-12.0) %
Beta Globulin 10.3 (9.0-14.0) %
Gama Globulin 10.3 (8.0-17.0) %
Albumin 54.3 (42-50) g/L ******************************** HIGH

Also Have high billirubin, ggt, alt, uric acid
One test showed low blood sugar, + elevated chol and LDL. Creatine also high.

Hey Bro!

Thanks for your reply. Have been busy with exams and couldn’t find time to login on here, it indeed sucks waiting years to just be okay but there’s no other way around. I just got my blood work done yesterday and now i am totally convinced that my path is more or less coinciding with yours. I tried explaining my endocrinologist the symptoms but he would totally brush aside telling that my blood work was totally normal and further believes its psychological! He prescribed be B12 (methyl) supplements as my levels were low. Is it safe to take them? These are my levels, what do you make of it?

FSH - 1.8 mIU/mL 0.95 - 11.95
LH - 4.50 mIU/mL 0.57 -12.07
PRL - 10.09 ng/mL 3.46 -19.4
TSH - 3.15 uIU/ml 0.35 - 4.94

Total T - 430 ng/dL 240.2 -870.7
Free T - 11.8 ng/dL 5.70 -17.8
Bio A T - 290 ng/dL 125 - 411.8
Free androgen index - 81.5 %(35 -92.6 %)

E2 - <10 pg/ml 11 -44
SHBG - 19.0 nmol/L 11.2 - 78.1
DHT - 971 pg/mL 250 - 990

I am clueless as DHT is high and i have been believing low dht was the reason to all my symptoms!

My doc prescribed me B12(methyl). Is there any safer way to b12 supplmentation?

It looks like you might have a problem with low E2?

Are you skinny?

Not sure whether its the E2 or SHBG. I am not skinny my BMI is 24.

B12 could cause you problems, have a read of this thread

Would your TSH be considered a bit high? Mine has always been around 1.5 range.

That DHT measurement can’t be correct… have had previous test with high DHT?

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@5alphaVictim

Your free T is low and e2 is reallly low. Either or both of those could be causing you issues. Most people feel best with fee T on the high side of the “normal” range if not a little over it. E2 should be 20’s minimum in my opinion.

My free t is 39 (on TRT)

Your TSH is problematic as well. I would get free t3, free t4 and reverse t3 tested to see what’s going on thyroid wise. You really should be closer to 1 for tsh.

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My TSH has been consistent throughout ie. 1 month since fin cessation( 4 pills in feb 2017) to now, hovered around 2.90 - 3.15. I have serious doubts on the DHT test too, most symptoms i suffer from can be attributed to low DHT. There’s also a possibility that DHT is true but it wont just bind to the androgen receptors. I am from India and the docs have no clue about PFS, this forum is my best shot.

What?! Thanks mate

I was prescribed 1500mcg methylcobalamin, if the problem is with methyl donors would cyanocobalamin be tolerable ? Cyanocobalamin is the only alternative to B12 supplementation.

My E2 was around 21 this January, shocking that its at these levels now. Anyway i am looking to redo the blood work again. I had only around 4-5 sleep the night before giving the sample. Usually my T is around 600. My TSH has been consistent throughout ie. 1 month since fin cessation( 4 pills in feb 2017) to now, hovered around 2.90 - 3.15. Does fin mess up thyroid ? Haven’t really come across that.

I’ve never really heard of it but it still might could be better, regardless of it being because of fin.

I still think your free T is way low.

There are other B12 vitamins also. Although
methylcobalamin is the most natural form of B12. Hydroxocobalamin is the one that is used when injecting. Hydroxocobalamin is water-soluble and its difficult to get to enter to your cells. Cyanocobalamin requires a transformation processs when body turns it into methylcobalamin and on that process there forms little amount of cyanide also which is a poison as we know. Then there is the fourt which is adenosylcobalamin. That also needs a transformation process on your body to turn to methylcobalamin. I have also wondered what B12 we could use out of these. I think its might be more of the dosing. If we start with small dosing like 250-500mcg and upper that little by little to maybe 1000mcg. If any trouble stop or reduce…?

It’s possible it’s messed up a lot of things that it shouldn’t mess up, but I don’t know definitely if it impacts the thyroid.

Yeah i will probably get a through thyroid investigation done. Regarding free T i am not sure whats happening my total T levels seem fine but the DHT levels are double the generally assumed 10 percent to T ratio.

I started 1000mcg methylcobalamin its been about 2 days, so far so good , the composition of the tablet i take has 100 mg ALA too. I spoke to a friend who happens to be a doctor and he thinks other rich sources of B12 would be to consume lamb liver daily.

Another severe symptom i am suffering from is chronic dry eyes. I have been diagnosed with it and undergoing treatment. I would rate this the worst side effect, its just unbearable!

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My results were almost identical before I started TRT. Low E2, low free T, normal highish total T. Exactly the same.

What doesn’t make sense is your free T still being that low despite your SHBG not being very high. My SHBG was 150+ (yeah, crazy high), so it made sense how I could have normal or high total T but still have low free T. Your results don’t totally make sense in that regard.

If you look up symptoms for low E2 and/or low free T they’ll match up pretty well to your issues. Maybe it’s the problem, maybe it’s not, I don’t know, but it shouldn’t be discounted. I ignored my results for a year thinking oh I have plenty of total T so there’s no way that’s the problem only to find out I was wrong.

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Your E2 is extremely low! I can’t imagine how you are feeling with level this low. Coincidentally, your DHT is supraphysicial and this makes total sense. I posted over and over about how optimal ratios (T:E2 & E2:DHT) either make it or break it.

I had an E2 level hovering around 14-19 pg/mL despite high-normal T and I had all sorts of symtpoms! I was nearly suicidal and I couldn’t pinpoint the exact cause except E2 showing up too low every time I got a bloodwork.

My biggest challenge was to find a way to raise E2 to be in the optimal range of ~20-30. Most men with symptoms often underestimate E2 and only focus on T & DHT and I can’t blame them for it since most online articles, forums, & even studies link them to masculinity, high sex drive, motivation, and well-being while totally dismissing E2. Heck it took me forever trying to find one single study on low E2 causes in men.

I’ll say it one more time. Stay away from any E2 lowering stuff including (but not limited to) high dose of fat soluble vitamins D, A, K, & E, Fish oil high in EPA/DHA, Melatonin, All anti aromatase drugs, green tea, high dose Zinc, SAMe and cruciferous vegetables.

You also need to raise your T to raise E2 conversion.

Check this out this excerpt:

“This strongly suggests that this action of T on the brain is mediated by its aromatization to oestradiol. Oestrogens interact with acetylcholinergic, serotonergic (5-HT), monoamine oxidase activity and catecholaminergic systems of the brain, but also through estrogen-induced synapse formation. The latter two are implicated in depression and schizophrenia. With aging, men show declining T levels, and for men T is the precursor for oestrogens”.

& this:

“It may be expected that estrogen, via neurotransmitter pathways, may have effects on mood, declarative memory, motivation and cognition such as verbal fluency.
Earlier studies have questioned the relevance of oestrogens in human male sexuality. A recent study found that oestrogen replacement in an aromatase deficient man increased libidinous aspects of sexuality”.

As a side note, just like the other posters said you also need to bring your TSH level down to close to 1.00 as you may have subclinical hypothyroidism if your ft4 and ft3 are lowish.

Hello bro. Apology for taking forever to response as I’ve been away from the forum for a while. In all honesty, I’m deliberately doing this to get over years of infinite suffering and winding up here is a constant reminder, sadly.

I’ll provide more details on my experiment later as I’m in such a rush right now. Get well soon!

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