My hormone tests...

Here are my results:

Total Test: 6,10 ng/ml (2,5-8,36)
21,17 nmol/L (8,69-29)

D4A (RIA) 1,70 ng/ml (0,50-2,20)
5,94 nmol/L (1,74-7,68)

SHBG

39,24 nmol/L (14,5-48,4)

Morning Cortisol: 490 ug/L (62-194)
1352 nmol/L (171-536)

LH: 5,1 UI/L (1,7-8,6)
FSH: 4,0 UI/L (1,5-12,4)

TSH: 2,56 mUI/L (0,27-4,20)
Free T4: 12,80 ng/L (9,0-17,0)
16,4 pmol/L (12,0-22,0)

Total PSA: 0,7 ng/ml (<4)

Free PSA: 0,29 ng/ml

Free PSA/Total PSA ratio: 41%

SHBG is pretty high, of course.

Cortisol is skyrocketting.

I don’t see anything wrong with Testo though.

My GP told me it was unuseful to do Estradiol, progesterone, prolactine, free Test…of course…

This was before I started the Avena Sativa/Tribulus/Tongkat Ali supp, and about 13-month after Finasterdide stop.

so this is not ur current test? what is ur current reading after using above herbs?

I didn’t do the test again. In France we must have a prescription in order to do tests. I can’t ask a prescription every two weeks…

high cortisol would indicate poor adrenal function? Which would explain why you have no libdio… its off the charts… wow.

I would also get estrogen tested.

I’ve just got my recent tests. Unfortunately, my endocrino didn’t consider useful to renew the tests I already done last spring, since they were “normal”.

Creatinine: 71µmol/L (62-106)
8,0 mg/L (7,00-10,2)

Plasmatic Estradiol: 29pg/mL (7,6-43 pg/ml)

Plasmatic prolactin: 12,0ng/mL (4,6-21,4ng/ml)

DHT: 1,65 ng/mL (0,33-1,20ng/mL)
5,68 nmol/L (1,13-4,13 nmol/L)

Interestingly, DHT is crazy, even though I have 99,99% of the time less sex drive than a new-born babe.

And no, Estradiol, even though in the "normal "ranges appears too high for me.

Any thoughts? Is there anybody on the board having skyrocketting DHT too?

Lots of us have high DHT me included.

My next thing to try and c if it makes a difference is progesterone. Hopefully it will lower DHT and this will lower CORTISOL aswell and all things will be balanced again. Im very much in doubt but its worth a shot for me atleast.

Theres some talk about how DHT could possibly drive up cortisol by affecting the cns but it seems vague but as i said its worth a shot for me.

Ill give updates when i try it.

Other than DHT and cortisol id say your hormones look good. You should also check vitamin D.
Edit: well you shbg is abit high too.

Here is my latest test:

Free Testosterone: 10 pg/ml (8,9-42,5 pg/ml)
34,67 pmol/L (31-148 pmol/L)

Typical post-Fin user…

According to my tests, my problems are definitely related to: low free T, high Cortisol, pretty high E2 and SHBG, but definitely not low DHT.

Interestingly, I had great results (just one day, maybe I need a serious cycling with other supplements doing the same effect) with Avena Sativa (known for lowering SHBG), but not a lot with Tribulus, and nothing with Tongkat Ali (those last two boost Testosterone)

My newest lab tests:

TSH: 3,08 (0,27-4,2 mUI/L) my precedent test was 2,56, I’m becoming more hypothyroid.

Cortisol 380 nmol/L (171-536) My precedent test was 1352, incredibly lower now, I don’t know if it’s good or not, it was way too high anyway.

Bioavailable Testosterone:

1,33 ng/mL (0,80-3,20)

17 cetosteroid: 16,8 mg/24h (7,0-17,0) My precedent test was 13, I’m climbing up to the limit.
Free T3: 2,29 nmoL/24h (0,61-3,38)

DHEAS: 5738 nmol/L (2410-11600) could be higher for my age.

Vitamin D: 10ng/mL (30-80)
25 nmol/L (75-200)

Pregnenolone: 6 ng/mL (40-120)

Vitamin D and Pregnenolone are killed!

lol… you’re whole cortisol production line is seriously down regulated…Here’s what you should be doing. Find transdermal preg as soon as possible, amazon.com and then visit chilln’s Hormones 101 on Allthingsmale.com (Dr. Crisler’s Forum Site). I am very confident low preg is your problem. Holy cow…

When you boast preg, you boast the whole line of your adrenals IE: cortisol, aldoestrone, preg, prog…

High cortisol is a good thing.

The reason your SHGB is high is because you have high e2.

Youre problems are pretty straight forward and very visible. I think once you get your cortisol production line up regulated you should be feeling very good again my frand. Along with taking t3 and t4 as well…

I hope you’re right! I’ve seen the French Anti-Aging doc, and he put me two months on:

DHT gel on genitals every morning
1/4 Euthyral (Synth T4 + T3) every morning
Progesterone 2 to 3 days a week

It’s my 13th day on this regimen.

He should be giving you preg… its the lowest, and its the first thing in the cortisol production line. Meaning, raising it will raise all others… Why the hell is he giving you dht when your dht is fine???

If he wants to fix you tell him to follow this:

Exective Summary:

Phase 1: Restore preg, prog and cortisol, via supplementary transdermal pregnenolone (or prog), to as good as can be achieved without thyroid hormones.
Phase 2: Restore thyroid hormones, pref via supplementary slow-release-compounded T3 (not yet T4) and adjust both preg and T3 thyroid hormones together to achieve optimum balance as well as levels of all cortisol-production-line hormones as well as thyroid hormones.
Phase 3: Swap most of the T3 for T4, and swap most of the preg for either dietary cholesterol (pref) or HC (if cholesterol not synthesizing into preg).
Phase 4: Boost GH via GH booster peptides or recombinant GH (if you have the resources to do so).
Phase 5: Boost testosterone and DHT via exogenous T and / or exogenous HCG.
Phase 6: Boost GH if you didn’t boost GH before, but you discovered that your body is tuned for low T / DHT and high GH.

Details:

Phase 1: Restore preg, prog and cortisol, via supplementary transdermal pregnenolone (or prog), to as good as can be achieved without thyroid hormones.

No supplementary thyroid hormones, testosterone, HCG or GH in phase 1.

Transdermal preg is much more reliable at boosting both preg and prog levels, and thus cortisol levels, than oral preg.
Transdermal prog is much more reliable at boosting both prog levels and preg levels too (via “sparing”), and thus cortisol levels, than oral prog.

Most males supplementing with oral preg (or oral prog) will either:
a) synthesize oral preg (or oral prog) into urinary metabolites on the first pass through the liver
or:
b) absorb oral preg (or oral prog) too quickly and cause symptoms of excess preg or excess prog or excess cortisol

Supplementing with plenty of pregnenolone or progesterone is done to ensure at least the first two hormones (preg and prog) in the cortisol-production-line (ie: preg -> prog -> 17 hydroxyprog -> 11 deoxycort -> cortisol) are boosted. Many males discover that transdermal preg synthesizes adequately into cortisol.

The pregneneolone boost will optimize neurotransmitters.

Males react to supplementary transdermal pregnenolone one of two ways:
a) Preg gets backed up (causes “spacey” feelings) with very little cortisol being produced. This is because T4 levels are so low that the adrenal enzymes are “snoozing”.
b) Preg synthesizes adequately into cortisol without preg levels going too high - but cortisol levels go too high even though we don’t feel completely optimized. This spells that the adrenals are adequately invigorated but the rest of our body cells need more T4 in order to absorb more cortisol. Without the T4, a lot of the supplementary cortisol stays in serum (not absorbed into cells).

If your thyroid can produce adequate T4 (younger males only), then this will also boost T metabolism, and you can skip Phase 2 and go straight to Phase 3.

Phase 2: Restore thyroid hormones, pref via supplementary slow-release-compounded T3 (not yet T4) and adjust preg and T3 thyroid hormones to match each other.

No supplementary testosterone or HCG or GH in phase 2.

Compounded-slow-release-T3 spares T4, so the results are more stable than you might assume from T3’s short half life of a few hours.
T3’s short half life is critical to allow you to quickly adjust dosages without having to wait several weeks for T4 serum levels to stabilize.

Supplementing with plenty of thyroid hormone T3 increases metabolic rate some more, and that’s often all that some males need to boost their T metabolism sufficiently for erection performance and orgasms to return to optimum. If this occurs then still go to Phase 3, but probably no further.

When tuning combined preg + T3 doses, you must monitor yawning, tiredness stretching, brain fade, and farting as follows:
…all these can be due to too low thyroid hormones, preventing cortisol from being absorbed into cells (remaining in serum)
…all these can be due to too high thyroid hormones, exhausting cortisol in cells, exhausing pregnenolone, causing neurotransmitter downregulation
…all these can be due to too high cortisol, causing ACTH suppression, causing too low pregnenolone, causing neurotransmitter downregulation
…all these can be due to too low cortisol, due to insufficient pregnenolone

The only way to determine the difference between all of these 4 situations is to have a very good familiarity with the duration that preg and T3 are “effective” in your body, and then determine whether any of your supps has “run out” (last dose of a supp was taken a longer-time-ago than it’s “effective time”), or if your supps are still within their “effective time”, then your most-recently-taken-supplement (preg or T3) is in excess.

Phase 3: Swap most of the T3 for T4, and swap most of the preg for either cholesterol (pref) or HC (if cholesterol not synthesizing into preg)

T4’s half life of several days means you must wait around 2 weeks for serum levels to stabilize before attempting to adjust T4 dosages again. It’s critical that you’ve leaned to tune into your thyroid hormone symptoms from your previous T3 trials, before introducing T4. This helps prevent T4 overdosing. If you overdose on T4, you’ll need to supplement with excess cortisol to force the T4 to be used up (metabolized) quickly.

Phase 4: Boost GH via GH booster peptides or recombinant GH, if you have the resources to do so.

If your T and / or DHT systemic metabolism (eg: libido, but not prostate or hair follicle DHT metabolism) are still too low at this point, boosting GH will spare your T and DHT, because both GH and T trigger many of the same repairs (not 100% overlap) so triggering repairs via GH leaves T to only have to trigger the remaining (fewer) metabolic functions.

Recombinant GH is very expensive in terms of dollars, and travel time to consult the doctor who prescribes it. There are even fewer doctors helping patients dose their GH booster peptides, so while GH booster peptides are lower cost than recombinant GH, you will usually have to travel much further to find a doctor who will work with you to optimize your dosages.

Phase 5: Boost testosterone and DHT via exogenous T and / or exogenous HCG.

This is usually only required by those with insufficient resources to boost their GH in the previous phase.

When some people trial HCG monotherapy, they discover they can reduce their supplementary pregnenolone or cholesterol or HC to ad-hoc only, or even zero.

Phase 6: Boost GH if you didn’t boost GH before, but you discovered that your body is tuned for low T / DHT and high GH

You know your body is tuned for low T / DHT and high GH when supplementing with exogenous T and / or HCG required extremely high cortisol to keep E2 low.

1 Like

musclechatroom.com/forum/content.php?117-hormone-modulation-therapy-101

In fact, I just got the results; when I saw him, he gave me this protocol and prescribed me the preg, Vitamin D and so on tests, he definitely suspected my preg was low. I think that’s why he gave me progesterone, because preg is known to convert in prog, and he told me prog had the faculty to make receptors. He also told me prog would lower my DHT. He thinks the DHT receptors in my junk are completely shut off, and that’s why he gave me the Andractim. He seems optimistic about the whole thing.

I see… I still dont think taking it 2-3 days is going to cut it though… You still may need T boasting as well. I seriously consider you reading through that. The guy who wrote it is very brilliant. Dr. Crisler wouldn’t have it as a sticky on his forum if he didnt believe everything that was written on it…

Read through it a bunch of times… I found it was much easier to understand after a few times of reading it. Its now why I have a good understanding of it now.

In the info I provided he lists how to find your optimal dosage as well.

Well, thank you very much for this very precise protocol!

It makes sense and looks great, but…did anybody actually try it?

I’m very open to show it to my doc, but I would like to know if some PF sufferer did really benefit from it…

So, if we choose to try it, I suppose we will have to stop the current regimen?

I’m going to try it with Dr. Crisler… I havent seen too many ppl like you or me who have hormones that are so clear cut and fixable… A lot of ppl on this board have a lot of normal hormones but have existing problems. I mean, your preg reading is a huge red flag to me. and based on exactly what that procedure says it should be able to fix you and I believe it could. I have not tested my preg, but I’d imagine it is in the gutter as well. Some ppl on this board have tested preg, and it has come back low as well. Problem is a lot of ppl are out of the US, such as yourself and cant come see Crisler without a large assumption of money. But hopefully your doc will understand what I put in front of you. He should be able to.

You’ll have to tweak your protocol. The one thing that protocol doesnt specify is how many time to dose preg a dailey. I would thin it would be a few times. But I asked Chilln on Crislers forum today as to some more specfics… Here is my link to my thread on Crislers forum…

musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?15842-hypothyroidism