I will be starting my HCG protocol once the hormone arrives tomorrow. I’m hoping that it isn’t damaged at all in the shipping process, but aside from that I’m very excited to get started.
I’ll be taking 1000ui HCG once every 3 days for 30 days along with daily Clomiphene (not sure of the dosage to be honest). The HCG will be delivered as IMI. After 30 days, the doctor will reduce my dosage and it will be injected subcutaneously.
Let’s see how this goes. Wish me luck!
Pretty sure that will severely desensitize your leydig cells. You might want to look into that. If only planning to do it short term and are fine with that then fair enough. But even juiceheads don’t like to do dosages like that for more than 2 or 3 weeks to restart system after extended shutdown. Once you’re desensitized further injections are like shooting blanks.
I agree with @vkg1
Also stacking HCG with Clomid seems over the top.
Sure Clomid will increase FSH and LH, while HCG only stimulate FH. By different mechanism sure, but still.
Did you get your FSH and LH levels checked out?
This kind of broculture enabled blind and desperate popping of pills and injections of chemicals is why more people have been harmed here than benefited. Not that I am not equally guilty of the same thing. It’s just painful to see the same mistakes repeated ad nauseum with no progress in 15 years.
HCG and Clomid?
You are not going to feel good.
The protocol that the doctor has suggested is 1 month of HCG, 1,000 ui every third day, so 10,000 ui total after the first month. I won’t be injecting 1,000 UI daily. This is taken with Clomiphene to reduce/eliminate estrogenic effects. This supposedly gets my testes & pituitary working in tandem to have my body producing testosterone properly on its own. After the first month, I go off of the Clomiphene and reduce my HCG and inject it subcutaneously. The first month is just to get things started appropriately.
Can you provide a citation that shows that HCG injections severely desensitize leydig cells? I couldn’t find anything when I looked into it.
My FSH and LH levels are both normal according to my blood tests. In fact, all of my hormones came back normal. But as I’m sure you’re well aware, that is par for the course with this affliction.
Can you cite a source of anybody with PFS that went onto an HCG/Clomid protocol that subscribed to this “broculture” and ended up being harmed by it? Specifically that combination. Because I’ve read good things about HCG and mixed things about Clomid.
Your negativity is welcomed as constructive criticism, but it would be helpful for you to back it up with some kind of citations.
Please elaborate.
This is a quote from you in another thread. It sure seems like you’re sitting, bitching any crying here without offering any constructive feedback, hypocrite.
At least I’m trying something based on extensive research into what’s worked and what hasn’t for people on these forums. Even if it doesn’t work, at least I’m trying.
What’s not constructive about warning you that if you take that dosage for more than a few weeks then you will desensitize receptors and render further injections ineffective? Anyway, treatment for hypogonadism as a treatment for PFS has been tried here 10000x before without success if you do a search. There’s a reason why the term “PFS” exists, which is that it isn’t merely hypogonadism. Good luck to you regardless.
I’ve scoured the internet and not found a single indication of HCG desensitizing receptors of any kind, so why would you say such a thing without offering citation, especially after being called out on it? I’ve spent the last 2 months looking at HCG stories on this forum, and some have been a success, zero have had adverse effects, and I don’t think I’ve read of anybody taking HCG and Clomid in tandem to work synergistically.
Read more.
Alright, if anybody else can provide a citation to back up vkg1’s claims, then I’m receptive. Because apparently there are no citations and he’s mistaking this particular protocol with one of the many other failures that he’s read about and conflating them.
Most studies done on hcg and leydig cells are rat studies. But they are indeed there. Using low dose and subq injection lowers the potential for damage.
But there is also evidence low dose hcg could re-sensitive the leydig cells so it’s not all black and white.
I’m going to bed now, but I can post citations after I wake up.
Also hcg could have some other interesting effects, like to increase pregnenolone without affection T.
Also if using recombinant hcg, which I would assume most are it can increase T but without any raise in estrogens, atleast in rats.
So it wouldn’t be a surprise if it actually would help some PFS patients. Because even if we all used the same drug to get here, our symptoms differ a lot.
And if you want to share your LH and FSH test results I’d greatly appreciate it.
Thank you for elaborating a bit. I’ve looked into Clomiphene a bit more and see that it can raise SHBG levels. Given that I have pretty elevated SHBG levels as it is (53.1 with a reference ranged of 16.5 - 55.9 for my age group), I ultimately determined that this was not the route I wanted to take despite my doctor’s advice. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with my pituitary gland, so it’s probably not necessary to upregulate its activity.
Because I’ve decided not to use the Clomiphene, I figured I may as well run the Joekool protocol of 250 UI every other day for 3 days of the week rather than 1,000 UI every 3rd day. So while some of my HCG will go to waste (since it goes bad after 60 days of refrigeration) and I ultimately spent money on Clomiphene that I won’t use, I think it is the safer route so as not to increase my SHBG levels or desensitize my Leydig cells. I’ve been on countless websites and read parts of dozens of journals and found that high levels of HCG have been shown to desensitize leydig cell activity while low level therapies have actually shown to have the opposite effect! I should have flagged the specific studies that cite this earlier, but I can’t seem to find them now. Oh well.
So I started the protocol on 7/6/2021 and have since had two subcutaneous injections into my stomach with a 30 gauge insulin needle. Joekool said that he did subcutaneous injections but also mentioned that he injected it into his arm (???) so this is where I’m deviating from his method. It’s only been a few days but I feel night and day different and my libido is back to a place it hasn’t been since even well before the Finasteride usage. I almost cried tears of joy this morning when I woke up to morning wood and a very engorged member haha. I’ve had a couple occasions in the past couple days where I’ve been horny without the use of porn and I almost forgot what that felt like. I hope this dosage isn’t too high since it’s hitting me pretty quickly, but I’m going to try to reach out to Joekool to see what he weighs and possibly adjust my dosage accordingly.
I will keep this updated for the lurkers that are actually seeking help. For those of you that want to shit on everybody because misery loves company and you’re miserable people, go right ahead. I’m going to keep documenting this despite you.
Great to hear, mate. Keep us posted regularly so we can see how you’re going.
Welp, it looks like I’m crashing again. The first 5 days or so I felt great. Sleep improved, libido and genitals improved, mood improved, muscle mass improved, energy improved, mental clarity improved. This actually made me nervous because Joekool’s protocol indicated that it took him around 10 weeks to start seeing the benefits.
The crash started on the morning of the 11th when I found myself having a really hard time sleeping. Later that day my libido and genitals were noticeably more pathetic and I was lethargic and depressed throughout the day. On the 12th I struggled with sleep and on the 13th, I finally got a lot of it but was unbelievably fatigued throughout most of the day. Depression is back. My left testicle hurts. I’m bloating and have developed gyno and have weight accumulating around my midsection again.
I panicked a bit and took a quarter of one of my 50mg Clomiphene pills in hopes that it will somehow help the situation and maybe stop what might be an estrogen feedback loop. I don’t know. I went to sleep 2 hours ago and like every crash, I’m awake two hours later almost to the minute. I had been sleeping without sweating for a month or so and I’m in a full blown night sweat right now.
Why does this shit keep happening? Is there really nothing that works? Is death actually the only way to end this? I just want to be normal again. This has to be autoimmune.
Check out my post you replied to earlier in the thread.
HCG is not a cure, it just pushes your LH up and you start to produce estrogen, as evident by the gyno.
You def dont want gyno so, you were probably smart to start the clomid but it’ll make you feel worse now because it blocks estrogen in the brain. You’ll just have to tough it out.
Yes, autoimmune or neurosteroid related. Look up naltrexone. I’ve been researching it non stop for the last 2 weeks.
So I started taking 1/4 of my 50 mg clomiphene pills every 24 hours which wasn’t originally a part of the plan since I wanted to follow Joekool’s protocol to the ‘t’. I’ve also reduce my HCG injections to 200 mg from 250 mg. Basically I’m taking about 1/4 dose of what the doctor prescribed. So instead of taking 2000 mg of the HCG each week and 350 mg of Clomiphene each week, I’m averaging about 500 mg of HCG and 87.5 mg of Clomiphene.
My mood has gotten back to normal and I’m no longer, anxious, depressed, or manic. The one major difference I’ve noticed is in my sleep. I’m getting over 8 hours, which is absolutely unheard of. My libido is still low, but at least I’m not experiencing pain anymore.