My experience almost 10 years with "PFS" + recovery + what I've learned

I’m copying below what I wrote to another member in a private message. I never come on this forum anymore because I feel people go into many unscientific directions, and its as if some people enjoy being a victim of Propecia. I haven’t been on here in like 5-6 years maybe.

I think all “PFSers” have low grade chronic infections that mostly stems from their guts…the colon microbiome…aka your gut microbes. Fix your gut microbes, remove pathogens and toxins, and the body fixes itself. I have expert level knowledge regarding this stuff and I’m even planning on writing a book because there is lots of b.s. health info on the internet and what you read in a medical paper is very different than what happens in real life. The body is a very complex system. Don’t expect to pop a few pills and get better. Message below:

At my best, I am pretty damn close to perfect…only needed 6 hours of sleep, woke up refreshed. Solid erections, great vision, great digestion, great mood/personality, great energy, could concentrate on my work. At worst I was suicidal with a wide array of symptoms. Recovery is very possible.

Regarding epigentic changes, things like butyrate, which are made by your gut microbes can change your genetic expression (for the better). Butyrate has even been shown to help reduce addiction…I think in mouse models. Taking butyrate orally is not the same as your gut microbes making it themselves.

Fixing your gut is really hard, and it depends where you’re starting from…like how bad your gut is to begin with. Due to really bad medical advice, my health got much, much worse than the initial PFS I had, and I went through hell trying to figure it out…I still make a lot of mistakes and have to fix them.

Pay close attention to your poops…I don’t care if this is TMI, you need to know…they have to be 1 piece, smooth, banana or snake like, sinkers not floaters, dark brown, no undigested food in it, and barely anything on the toilet paper when you wipe…like only a thin streak. You can still have quality poops and have health issues, but not the other way around. Poor quality poops means “toxins” are re-circulating back into your blood stream from your colon (aka leaky gut). I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH! Get a chopstick or a plastic fork and examine your bowel movements everyday.

Some basic advice:
Very low carb diet, except for cooked and then cooled beans (in fridge for 24 hours, creates RS3). Black beans are probably best. They must be relatively firm to resist digestion by you so they get to your colon relatively undigested.
Roasted garlic and raw dairy plus the beans are all prebiotic…meaning they feed good gut bacteria. Try to avoid red meat as best as you can…its horrible for your gut microbes. High blood sugar means a suppressed immune system, which means pathogens can flourish.

Checkout Chlorine Dioxide (CD aka MMS) in a book by Kerri Rivera for Autistic Kids…its not scientific but strongly points you in the right direction. CD/MMS can hurt you if you don’t dilute it. It is an oxidative therapy. This book should be available for free as a PDF somewhere on the internet.

Also check out a website called talks about the use of suppositories and detoxing heavy metals. I wouldn’t pay much attention to the diet section though. Be very careful with suppositories and CD enemas, you can really !@#$ yourself up.

Learn to make home made milk kefir, or water kefir, sauerkraut, kombucha…the store bought stuff is garbage and weak. Water and milk kefir are stupidly easy to make. It’s intimidating at first, but afterwards its a piece of cake.

Dark leafy green smoothies (not just juice) are anti-inflammatory and reduce TNF-a. Maybe throw in some turmeric root and some type of fat (raw milk?) or oil to buffer the yellowing effect of the turmeric. No berries or carbs in your smoothies. Think Kale/Spinach.

Fish oil and Flax Oil are great. Don’t combine fats with carbs.

Try to do some cardio as this moves your lymphatics and stimulates your immune system. Maybe 20-30 min a day…like a brisk/fast walk at least.

Basic liver flushes (castor oil) can help. No liver flushes with lots of apple juice…that’s just b.s. and unnecessary sugar. If you do an olive oil /grapefruit juice liver flush and see green stones, those are not real stones, its just conjugated bile and olive oil…dont’ pay attention to that crap.

If you get bloating after meals, this could mean you have parasites. They’re very common and testing for them is horrendous…lots of false negatives.

Best probiotics I feel are VSL3, ElixaProbiotic, and Miyarisan. Probiotics will not stick around in an inflammed gut where a “war” is going on…the same way you don’t want to go live in Syria/Yemen right now and would rather live in Hawaii. You also need to make room in/on your colon wall for the probiotics to colonize otherwise you will just poop them out. I knew this for 2-3 years, but it was only recently discovered in a lab setting.

If you do things like a CD enema, or essential oil suppository, make sure you take a lot of probiotics afterwards or you will pay the price for it. This does depend on how bad off you are to begin with. No essential oil suppositories before going to sleep as you don’t want it to go and kill all of your good microbes as you’re laying down. Good dosage for a probiotic is like 250+ billion CFU… a VSL3 Sachet is 450 billion. A VSL3 pill is 125 billion. You also need to learn how to eliminate biofilms…CD works great for that.

Also, include nuts and seeds into your diet. Pumpkin Seeds, Walnuts, and Pecans are best. These contain berberine and tannins which are anti-microbial. Raw is best.

Eliminating pathogens and removing toxins are more important than any dietary intervention that you do. Pathogens are toxin factories!
No beef, no gluten, low carb!
Do cardio, basic liver flush (like once a week), NAC enema, Raw Pumpkin Seeds, Heavy on the dark leafy green smoothies, and bentonite clay internally are the things that helped me the most. Killing parasites is much harder than manipulating the microbiome. If you have parasites, you’re kinda screwed.

I’m still learning more stuff as I go along and constantly refining my protocol. My biggest challenge has been parasites.

I really do want all of you to get better, but I’m not going to stick around here and argue. I might not come back to answer questions either. The few people I knew on this forum in the past always went in unscientific directions and they wouldn’t realize it. I think what’s wrong is what’s living inside of your bodies. Your body is just shifting resources and adapting to the mess/disaster inside of you. Sexual function is not critical to survival when you have pathogens tearing your body apart…understand? Sexual function will probably be the first thing to go when you become ill.


Thanks for contributing… This is an angle I am very interested in exploring. Especially with the information we received about gut microbiota in the last published Melcangi study. I think the only way we can tackle issues with brain tissue and such is through the gut. It seems an obvious angle to explore anyway.

I have extremely bad gut issues and im following the same path. After a 3 day water fast only my gut bloating went away and my mind feels 30% improved. Gonna cut all carbs and go full fresh food only, what meats are you eating?

what about fruit? no fruit?

That’s really interesting stuff, @DutSucks

Could you suggest a week’s worth of meals or write down what you eat every day for a week so people can more easily understand what you’re talking about?



Thank you messiah, you have arrived just in time. You are the hopeness.

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I’m in that second category, the one who has parasites. Never would have guessed I did. But I’ve been on a heavy parasite removal program for 4 months and have gotten rid of thousands of them. My protocol is close to the one IHP used with some tweaks. My strength on pushups has doubled. My sleep is 100x better. Mentally much more stable Sexually I am not making improvements yet though. I have many many more months to go before I explore other options.

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How do people here know they have parasites? Is there a stool test you take?

How did you determine you had parasites? Can you link to a protocol?

I didnt do any tests. I just trusted a number of recoveries I read with similar protocols. I did have some anti-body tests for viruses which I am sure Ive been killing, but I’m more talking about worms (ascaris) and flukes and other parasites at this point. Google Ihatepropecias recovery or seach my latests posts to see what Ive been doing its here somehwere.

It has literally zero to do with the gut for me. Now I eat tons of sugar or junk every fucking day and my baseline is higher than ever before. I’m also stronger and look better than ever, 4000 kcal every day and i’m still shredded. Fuck all your gut Bullshit. I had incredible severe pfs and I got better with sugar and junk every day. Herbs and hormones only.


It’s comments like that of Invictus that makes me not want to waste my time here anymore…closed minded, unscientific, and not realizing each person’s body is different.

Testing for parasites is extremely poor. If you have parasites, good luck…killing them is really hard.

I somewhat followed parts of what Ihatepropecia did…some things I agreed with, some things I didn’t.

Regarding fruit…test it out and see how you feel…if fruit makes you feel bloated, cut the fruit! Even if you consume fruit, limit the quantity as you don’t want your blood sugar to rise too much. Same with starchy carbs. Beans however are amazing in my opinion.

For proteins, I really stick to chicken breast and salmon, and even those I limit. I also consume NOW whey isolate.

I would say importance is like this:
50% fixing the microbiome, and killing microscopic pathogens
25% killing parasites
25% diet…but this goes hand in hand with the microbiome stuff.
----but the problem with the parasites is sometimes they go into the colon and wreak havoc on your good gut microbes too…so this is a difficult situation.

I’ve never tried any hormonal therapy, so that might help some people. Also, if you want to check for inflammation, a good test would be TNF-a, and a stool test will have some markers of gut inflammation too.

All of the stuff that I’ve written so far, its a tremendous shame you guys don’t know it already. The years I haven’t been back here…I was thinking these PFS guys should have figured it out by now… !@#$ I guess I was wrong.


Anyone try serum-derived bovine immunoglobulin?

Congratulations on your recovery.

Did you experience penis and scrutom numbness. Are you recovered in that department.
Did youe genital shrinkage recovered??


Another underrated thread. Coincidentally my Miyarisan arrived today. I will use and see what happens to me.


Keep us updated

I need to say something. Since Saturday I have been using the probiotic Miyarisan and NOW’s Walnut, Wormwood and Clover complex. I am in a state of great mental clarity. I had this mental state a few times even before the crash, as I was always an anxious and depressed person. It seems that this probiotic makes me “ruminate” less.

Besides that, my testicles are “less hanging”, looking more normal. I feel that the area of ​​my penis that corresponds to the bulboespojiosus muscle is less “tensed”, although the subtle and constant “ache” is still there. Yesterday I managed to maintain an erection while standing in the shower for a little longer than I had been getting. I feel an erection maybe 1-3% better, but for sure infinitely far from being normal. Nothing significant.

I am definitely far from cured. Too far indeed. However, this state of mental clarity is awesome. I had it in very few moments in my life.

About the few points of improvement that I had, perhaps they are related to the production of butyric acid from the bacterium Clostridium Butyricum.

The only downside of all this is that, according to studies, this bacterium is the same bacteria that causes botulism, and may even paralyze the person in irreversible damage. Although I have not seen any Miyarisan users reporting this, I am afraid to continue using it. I think for now I will drop it and use some of the most famous and common probiotics, in addition to the probiotic reported by @orthogs.

I do not recommend that anyone use any type of probiotic without proper studies. There are harms that can be caused by them and do us much harm. I don’t even have the ability to recommend something to anyone, so don’t take it as any kind of recommendation.

I would like the OP to still be active on the forum, but he hasn’t been here since 2018. I would like to hear his reports on this probiotic.

My plan is to continue using probiotics and a ketogenic diet (and the butyrate acid supplements recommended by @MOONCHILD), as well as adding something to improve my adrenal function (maybe iodine) and some enzymes plus Swedish Bitters for digestion, as Chi did.

That’s it.

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There is some research that indicate liver function is improved by probiotics. Would you, by any chance, have any before and after liver function tests?

The relevance here is that testosterone levels fall with liver disease, and at least in my case, my bloodwork shows several out of range values that may be contributing to my PFS.

Has anyone been in contact with DutSucks or tried this protocol?