My blood test results

Your androstandiol gluc. definitely recovered…Do you think you could get tested for Reverse T3 as well?

Most of the Testogel seemed to convert to DHT and my hair has continued to fall out with body hair increasing. There is hardly anywhere left without body hair to apply the gel, so it would convert to DHT. Therefore the Dr has moved me to injectable testosterone.
I understood the HGH was to help the muscles, but after a few days all I am getting is increased erections, in fact i’m waking up an hour before I need to with raging hard ons!
ALso the Dr weighed me in Nov and June on a Body Composition Analyzer- according to this I have gained 1kg of muscle and lost 1kg of fat. I don’t know where from unless my increased belly is down to muscle!

Did you bring up the methylization concept to him at all?

I went to see my endo before methylization came up on this forum, so I can’t add anything there.
I do think though that my muscles have probably become androgen resistant.

I worry about this and my loss was probably a lot quicker. If it is the case where the hell will it stop? I consider this the worst side effect and I have them all.

Its been 7 months now of Testosterone and 2 months of Growth Hormone and there is no sign any recovery for the muscles. Body hair is ever increasing and hair from my head falling out. My endo said I could alternate Testo enanthate injections with Nandrolone (Deca), but I tried briefly in the past and it had no effect.

Erections have gone from being ‘outstanding’ to just very good, maybe the novelty of the Testo injections has calmed down.

So I’m not happy and still searching for answers.

did u get rt3 tested? didnt see in prior post

Seeing as his main issue is muscle wastage it probably doesn’t matter. … ses-8g.htm

So you are planning to come off TRT? Muscle loss is also a big concern for me especially in my feet , palms and hips. it hurts when I walk , it hurts when I hold some thing solid or metallic and it hurts when I sit on hard surface or wood chair… people or my doctor do not understand this and they laugh when I tell them.


I finally managed so speak to my endo on the phone yesterday.
I told I think the Androtardyl is again just converting to DHT. She suggested I could try Nandrolone (Deca) for 2/3 months instead of the Testo Enanthate for the muscles. But I said that if the muscles are Androgen resistant to the Androtardyl they will be with the Nandrolone as well -and any other steroid; she said she didn’t know.
I’ll order it anyway and try, but I feel like I’m going down a dead end.
I was supposed to have another Androtardyl injection today with nurse but I cancelled, I’ll wait for the Nandrolone instead.

I hope the SARMS that are being talked about take off and become easier to acquire - I’ll message my endo and suggest this, hopefully they have some knowledge of it.

Taking nandrolone in our or ANY condition is a VERY BAD IDEA. Step back and reflect for a minute about what you know from this forum: We have people getting the same sides from various 5ARI’s including fin, duta, sp and isotretinoin. Our problems with fin have nothing to do with the chemical properties of the substance but rather with its effect, namely the reduction of DHT at the circulating and specially cellular level. This is the root cause of our problems, probably because reducing androgen activation causes AR hypersensitivity - which in turn leads to AR overexpression which get’s silenced downstream by means of negative autoregulation. There is a lot of evidence supporting this hypothesis.

Now let’s think for a minute what Deca does: 5AR will break it down into a practically inactive androgen called NOR-DHT. This is basically equivalent to combining TRT with a 5ARI of your choice, say finasteride. Now does that sound like a good idea? Considering the fact that Deca is known to cause PERMANENT erectile dysfunction (Deca Dick), I wouldn’t touch the stuff with a 20 ft. pole if I were you. Don’t believe me? Ask Crisler or read this:

It is true that you might have a better chance to combat wasting with Deca than with Test, mainly because it doesn’t trigger negative autoregulation as strongly as Test does due to conversion into NOR-DHT. But the risk in your situation is simply unacceptable.

I would take awors’ advice.

Deca gave this guy propecia like symptoms. … 52051.html

I’m humbled by the advice!
I was unsure about the Nandrolone -I do recall hearing of deca dick, but I thought as my DHT(Adiol-G) was so high now I had some room for manouvre.
So now I don’t know whether I’m stuck on this TRT which is not doing what I hoped, or to wean myself off it.
What do I do, experiment with some deacetylase inhibitors, get some SARMS from a dodgy website, or, break the bank to see Crisler in America +repeat visits.
I am willing to try new things, and travel -its almost the hope that keeps you going.

For god sake let’s stop seeing Chrysler - he hasn’t helped anyone. Make that the last thing you try.

didn’t you mean Ford? :wink:

I was about to post the same message as golf. Many doctors, unfortunately, think they can beat this by raising androgens. They are fundamentally misinterpreting the problem. If we would have invested the thousands of dollars per person spent on (mostly useless) medical treatment into a fund, I am sure we would have a nice sum of money by now. A few 100K in cash would have probably gotten us further in terms of scientific investigation than we are now. Anyways, that’s just a side tracked rant.

Regarding TRT, try reducing dose and see what happens. Doing so helped me somewhat. I also have wasting and have lost more hair in the last three years than in the forty before. Also have more body hair than ever. Are you still on Testogel? If so, that is definitely the first thing you want to change: Move to injectable (Testoviron for example). Testogel converts heavily into DHT and you want to avoid high androgens like the plague in your situation. Testogel also converts more into estrogen than IM does because it has to travel through the fat underneath the skin. Fat is where much of the aromatase is located. You may also want to consider quitting TRT all togehter.

I am doing IM once every two weeks and find this a much better regimen than pounding away at the system weekly. I actually feel best in the second week after injection. You may find that this change (Gel to IM) will improve your situation somewhat. In any case, try to stay below 100mg per two weeks and see how you feel. Forget about blood tests for a moment because they are pretty much useless in our situation. Rather, go by feeling - as retrograde as this may seem. After all, if our system is not doing what it is supposed to with the hormones that are in it, there is no point at looking at them.

Don’t experiment with deacetylation agents. I have been there and done that and can tell you than it doesn’t work. Interestingly, it gives me similar sides like when I increase androgens, minus the estrogenic effects. That says worlds about our problem to the molecularly inclined. If AR deacetylation doesn’t work, I can 100% guarantee you that no SARM will either.

My hopes currently are on demethylation. I will be doing a hard core session at the end of this month. If I survive it, I will let you know what happened.

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Read my recent post in the thread; Reversing silenced AR signal with demethylating agents - A promising treatment option?

Decitabine (5-aza-2’-deoxycytidine) has been used to demethylize androgen receptors successfully and repeatedly where epigenic changes have occured (but only in cancer).

Very well said. today I spent all day digging old posts and found not a single fin user who has recovered a bit from Crisler, in some case they are worse then before.


Decitabine is cytotoxic (meaning it modifies your dna) and has a serious side effects profile. Procaine, by contrast, is very well tolerated and also has a strong demethylating effect. One of the many problems with demethylating is that the body recognizes that something is missing and will remethylate. Just imagine that…

At last you realise. He improved ‘razorxtr’ a lot but he wasn’t a very severe case.