just dont take too much, and if you experience sides, such as floaters, cut back immediately.
I have heard 25mg a day is a good low dose.
Your testosterone converts to 17.4nmol/l on the UK reference range which isnāt too bad at all.
It would be interesting to see what your free testosterone is now, it should be ok.
Symptomatically have you found no improvment, what are your symptoms as of now?
And is it me or is your cortisol over the top of your reference range and if it is what is being considered here?
Hypo, may I ask you a question out of curiosity?
Could you tell me how I could find anything WRITTEN about SHBG, Danazol to lower it, and raising Free T this way to bring to my doctor??
Do you recall what scientific report, or book, you have read this in?
This has been very awkward to find.
I know that Dr Malcolm Carruthers was using it years ago, I knew this from speaking to himn and I also recall it being written somewhere by him.
Following this I became away of a patient who had taken Propecia who had high SHBG and told him that Danazol might be able to help him.
I tried everything I could including talking to his endocrinologist over the phone in Canada, but his endocrinologist simply didnāt want to know.
I took a long shot and said go to see Dr Eugene Shippen and tell him/mention Danazol in relation to your elevated SHBG and gave him a letter to take to see Dr Shippen.
He saw Dr Shippen and was subsequently treated with Danazol, so Dr Shippen is also using Danazol for this purpose, at least with some patients.
Ok so to the pointā¦
I looked through two out of the three books written by both andrologists and I found Danazol was originally mentioned by Dr Malcolm Carruthers in his first book The Testosterone Revolution.
On page 118 to 119 under the Title Future Directions Of Testosterone Treatment it says and I quote verbatim;
As an alternative to these treatments, it may be possible to stimulate the bodyās own natural production of testosterone, to slow its use and breakdown or lesson the factors antoganizing its action.
One of the most exciting developments in this field has been theuse of a drug to reduce the sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), which as described in chapter four, binds to testosterone and limits the amount of free testosterone in the body. Studies in my London clinic over the last six years have shown how very small doses of this drug, danazol (Danol), can halve the SHBG, and reverse the increases in this key factor that are caused by age, low proteins and a myriad other factors.
Especially when used in combination with testosterone, the drug, which had previously mainly been used in women, can restore a more youthful pattern of hormone balance, and greatly increase the effectiveness of treatment of andropause. This āfreedom for testosteroneā now makes it possible to treat patients with very high levels of this binding protein who were previously āblack holesā for the hormone, and failed to respond to even large doses. In some patients, the testosterone already produced by the body can be liberated and activated by this drug alone, and gives a form of testosterone-free testosterone treatment- an interesting therapeutic paradox.
Unquote
The book was written quite a few years ago and the term andropause is a bit of a misnomer and pretty much equates to hypogondism.
You can see he talks of how Danazol can increase free testosterone by reducing that which binds it, namely SHBG.
He mentions a myriad of causes that can increase SHBG and for some men one of them is Finasteride, though the mechanism of action remains unknown.
Again you can see that Dr Carruthers talks about the use of Danazol either alone or with TRT. Obviously which route was taken by a treating doctor and his patient would depend upon the level of testosterone and well being that can be achieved with the drug alone in comparison to what might be achieved with the two in combination, something that will differ from patient to patient.
I think you can still buy this book from Amazon.
If not you can buy it below;
andropause.org.uk/bookshop.asp
Extracts of the book are onlineā¦I checked but the passage in question is not there- otherwise I would have simply copied the page for you.
Below is the only article I could find where Dr Carruthers had mentioned Danazolā¦not a good article so you need the book really if the information is to present to a doctor.
theage.com.au/articles/2004/ ā¦ 64563.html
P.S
Sorry I couldnāt do any better, but this is all that I could say/find for you.
If you contact Dr Shippenās office he should also be able to confirm its use in this setting and perhaps speak to your doctor of fax him relevant information.
My neck is sore from typing this 
so I am happy my typing is now at an endā¦good luck!!
Thank you very much. This is very informative, and I will now use this information to share with my doctor. Much appreciated Hypo, Thank you!
I hope that info and its location in that endocrine book and/or Dr Shippen can help you.
This kind of thing was the reason I cam here to the site.
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Thanks for your posts Hypo and Solonjk, Iām glad you noticed the Cortisol. Its way over as it was back in March (as were Progesterone and Pregnenolone).
As you imply Free Testosterone should be OK now that SHBG is down -thatās if it stays down without anymore Danazol.
I had the adrenals tested as I posted on Sept 11th. I had the synthetic ACTH injections and was told that everything was fine. For the record cortisol levels at 0ā were 534 and at 30ā were 687 (>556).
TSH 1.9 (0.35 - 5)
FT4 14.5 (11 - 22)
FT3 7.5 (3 - 7.5)
What confused me is that they give you injections to boost the adrenals, when in my opinion they are producing far too much. The bodyās stress response is raging on out of control.
I have been told continually over the years that the thyroid is also OK.
Back in March had similar results for cortisol. The tests have all been done between 9 and 10am, no rushing around, no problems with needle etc.
I also had DHEA tested in March, 12.06 (3.76 - 13.08). I didnāt get it tested this time because it was OK last time and no one picked up on it.
No doctor, andrologist or endo has ever mentioned that my adrenals were a problem.
How do I reduce cortisol? I eat healthy, loads of fruit and veg, take Vitamin C, Phosphatyldiserene, hardly any alcohol or coffee and lead as stress free a life as possible.
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Well Solonjk, mate, its taken me 3 days to try to digest what you wrote!
Iāve also read your other recent posts on other topics with interest, your contribution is highly valued.
I get blood tests when I can, Iāve had to fight to get to see the so called specialists Iāve seen so far and then fight to get them to carry out the tests. The ones I paid for were in March and October in Spain. That is when I had progesterone and pregnenolone tested.
All i know is that my body has been disintegrating before my very eyes for 4.5 years now, and that cortisol attacks muscle tissue.
I donāt know if I can get those saliva tests done here in England, or if it can be done by post from the US. You mention having seen Dr Chrousos, is it worth contacting him and does he still practice in Greece? this would be nearer.
Iām sure those tests would also show high cortisol; - and then what?
Yes, I went through a very intense, stressful period in my life, but that is over now. The effects rage on.
Erections are not bad, visual/mental stimulation is good, manual stimulation takes longer, at times I get morning wood.
But how the hell do we reduce cortisol?
Cheers everyone.
If your levels are out of range how can you be told everything is fine? Did you challenge them on that?
Get lots of good, restful sleep, preferably by 10:30pm. Avoid stimulants like sugar, caffeine, energy drinks. Avoid skipping meals, eat every 3-4 hrs, avoid excess carbs, especially simple carbs (sugars). If you workout keep it under 1 hr.
Do some googling on Vitamin C and Cortisol. Standard protocol appears to be 1000mg/day, 2x500mg (1 morning, 1 night).
There are other natural supplements out there which might also help, ie garlic, but do your research.
Thanks for the advice Mew,
So my levels are out of range are they? I thought 687 (>556) meant that as long as the result was over 556 it was OK.
I though they didnāt know what they were doing when they injected me with even more cortisol, when the problem is too much production.
Lets face it even if I had challenged him he wouldnāt have known what to do. He refused to accept there was hypogonadism in spite of free androgen index being 44.5.
Iāll try the Vitamin C and maybe Glutamine and Arginine.
I do get at least 7 hrs sleep, eat regulary and keep physicaly active. I donāt take sugar, just a coffee every other day with brown sugar, couple of beers a week (I can cut this out).
I havenāt been weight training for over a year, i found I was just breaking down the muscle in the gym and not recovering -just losing even more muscle.
Cheers
Yes, my bad, I read the ā>ā the wrong way (thought your results were supposed to be LESS than that). Seems things are ok there then.
Caffeine is a stimulantā¦ Iād avoid stimulants as much as possible, but its your choice.
Just had Adrenal Stress Index test results back from the Diagnos-Tech consultant here in UK.
ASI Free Cortisol Rhythm;
AM: 36 (Ref 13-24 nM)
Noon: 6 (Ref 5-10 nM)
PM: 2 (Ref 3-8 nM)
Midnight: <1 (Ref 1-4 nM)
Cortisol burden: 45 (ref 23-42) overall cortisol exposure; high value = catabolic state, low values =sign of adrenal deterioration.
DHEA Pooled value: 6 (ref 3-10 ng/ml)
Balance in average value of cortisol to DHEA for the day - this does not preclude high or low xortisol at any specific time on circadian.
INSULIN Fasting: <3 (3-12 uIU/mL)
Post Prandial: <3 (5-20 uIU/mL)
depressed post prandial insulin within 4 hrs after meal.
Insulin activity affected by stress and cortisol responses.
Chroninc stree with cortisol elevation antagonizes insulin and may cause functional insulin resistance. Chronic hypercortisol causes hyperinsuin responses to carb intake. Chronic insulin resistance and overproduction lead to pancreatic exhaustion.
17-OH Progesterone: 56 (optimal 22-100 pg/ml)
TOTAL SALIVARY SIgA: 6 = depressed (normal 25-60 mg/dl)
Excessive chronic cortisol output causes reduction in number of SIgA producing immunocytes.
Gliadin Ab, SIgA; 1 = negative - no intolerance to gluten
- The consultant gives their own interpretation as follows:
Adrenal Stress Index & DHEA Cortisol-DHEA correlation with reference zone, however morning cortisol levels elevated, all other readings including DHEA are either depressed or normal. This indicates adrenal fatigue.
High morning cortisol with low daytime readings show adrenals capable of producing adequate cortisol for a.m period but in doing so poduction is exhausted for rest of day.
17-OH Progesterone (good indicator of adrenal reserve) - in normal range.
Fasting Insulin (s/be as low as possible) Reading <3 : normal
Post-Prandial Depressed insulin, suggests insufficient insulin response to carbohydrate meal/snack
MB2S Total Salivary SIgA (the gastrointestinal immune system) depressed
F14 Gliadin Ab, SIgA negative - no intolerance to gluten.
- Finally there is an example of a restoration plan only for educational purposes. Iāve summarised what I think applies to my results.
To reduce high cortisol, consider using ACTH-dampening Phosphorylated serine supplements, take 1 or 2 capsules between or 15 to 20 mins before meals within 1 to 2 hrs of elevated cortisol times.
Consider use of Pantothenic acid, Pyridoxine, zinc, copper, ascorbic acid and free form bioflavonoids as a nutritional support of the adrenal gland.
3 month daily schedule eg;
Pantothenic acid: 500mg BID
Pyroxidine: 50 mg BID
Elemental Zinc: 10mg BID
Copper: 1 mg BID
Ascorbic Acid: 1000mg BID
Free form bioflavonoids: 500 mg BID
To enhance SIgA levels:
Exercise (already do plenty)
Vitamin E
Botanical adaptogen supplementation.
- I hope this makes sense, Iāve tried to cram on as much info as possible so it can be seen by people who havenāt had this test before.
Any thoughts welcome.
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Thanks for the input Solonjk, sorry for the delay Iāve had problems with the computer.
I hake taken PHosphotidylserine previously and didnānt notice much difference. Torpicana used to do a āCort Blocā with 800mg PS but have discontinued it, I canāt find another product with that much PS.
My cortisol is very high mornings and Iām always very hungry thoughout the morning - maybe this is related?
I took fin from early 2001 for 2 yrs with no problems, I had an outdoor job, was in the best shape of my life and enjoying it.
Then in March 2003 I took an office based, very stressfull job, had conflict with colleagues and with neighbours all at once and very soon I started to notice change to my body.
I weight trained for yrs, had an average build but I began to loose muscle even though I continued training.
The jod ended with redundancy 18 monhs later in Sept 2004, the neighbours moved out at same time and my stress lifted overnight, -but the muscle wasting has continued to this day. I have gone from wearing large sized shirts to small ones.
I stopped fin in feb 2005 an stopped training 18 months ago but this has made no difference to the continuous pace of muscle loss.
Fat has increased around my waist and backside, the lower abdomen protrudes slighly. The rest of my body is now thin with v little muscle tone - my arms are like sticks!
Constipaton has been chronic. I cut out cheese and yoghurt, eat v little rice or pasta. I eat lots of stews with meat, lentils, beans, potatoes, lots of vegetables, broccoli; salads with fish and plenty of olive oil, wholegrain bread, shed loads of fruit and nuts all day long. Molasses and prunes are good for the contipation.
For breakfast I have high fibre cereal with milk, a fried egg, orange juice and fruit. Iāll have a small meal at 11, lunch at 2/3, a sandwhich at 5/6 and big evening meal at 8/9.
I have reduced coffee to 1 a week and beer to 1 on a saturday night.
I have never smoked.
I got to bed about 1am and get 7 hrs sleep each night and get up OK.
I dropped out of the career rat race because of this, I now do part-time manual work to keep active ( no excessive lifting), and do some work from PC at home.
Sometimes I feel lazy in the afternoons. Very soon after my problems started I noticed I couldānt sit down late at night to watch TV like I used to because Iāll fall asleep in 10 mins.
I lose concentration in mid-conversation, like I drift out and think about another subject and then concentrated back again on what the other person is saying.
I also have a bad memory now, I forget things like I never used to. I had two cycles stole in the last 2 months because I forgot to lock them up!
I cycle about 8/9 kms each day and its good aerobic excercise, I put the effort on rasing the knees rather that pressing down on the pedals and it excercises the wasit.
LIke I said I take vitamin c 100mg, zinc with copper each morning. I also take nettle root and gucosamine for the joints. I have just started L-Theanine each night and also DIM.
Libido is OK, visual stimulation is OK, but manual stimulation takes longer and there is less sensitivity and a curve to the left in the penis.
Again thanks solonjk and everyone else for the cooperation on this forum,
cheers
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Solonjk if you saw me you would certainly not say I eat too much - I must be burning it all up! and thereās no junk food or ready made meals its all good stuff.
Seriously thanks for all the effort youāre putting into this forum and I hope it benefits all of us.
Like I said I did have a very difficult stressful period but the reasons for the stress are now out of my life. However I still do get wound up very easy by little things.
I have just started taking āSeriphosā Phosphorylated Serine 1000mg and will get the Rhodiola rosea, and separate ZMA and copper.
The VItamin C 500mg I take comes with bioflavanoids 25mg (doesnāt seem much) I take 2 tabs at breakfast and 2 at lunch.
I have not had a cholesterol test but Iāll find out.
Iāll report back soon.
Cheers