My blood test results

Has your scalp hair gone to crap too like all over including the sides and back of your head? What about eyebrow hair? I have these problems in addition to the body hair including leg hair shedding that you have.

There was somtihing about losing hair on your calfs I read by Dr Crisler on Anabolicminds. I think it was a sign of high E? Though I could be wrong.

I have a feeling this could still be an E dominence “thing” even though your estrodol is within range. I dont know what though yet. My face has also become less manly looking too and that happend very quickly after I started the fin.

Im pretty sure low DHT will let E go out of control, so it could be a ratio thing. T or DHT/estrogen ratio as opposed to just your E numbers on a blood test. This is all just guess work though.

I stopped fin 2 yrs ago and the scalp hair has been falling ou again. The crown is getting larger and the temples are working their way back to join uthe crown in a pincer movement one of these days - so thats life!
My eyebrows are fine so far.

It seems I’m not the only one on this forum losing muscle mass, even though people may not have noticed. The reason you face will look less masculine is because muscle tissue is shrinking from your face and you are left with just the fat behind your skin giving your face a softer outline.

to.robin,

Your SHBG is too high given your testosterone level and I would not be suprised if that meant a low free tetsosterone level.

I say this because even your free androgen Index (something some endos rely on to estimate free testosterone) is;

Total testosterone (15.6nmol/l) multiplied by 100 divided by SHBG (37nmol/l) = 42.

It is a unit less figure, but scores lower than 60 are typically represent hypogonadal issues.

DHT testing is required and missing as you know.

Also your free T4 level is near the bottom of the range, so I would say that you need a free T3 level (the active thyroid hormone) to see if you are correctly converting free T4 to free T3…if your free T3 is not high enough then that would also mean a thyroid issue.

But the main point- that is a low FAI level and you might have a low free testosterone level too.

How did you fair on the hypogonadal symptom checklist?

I would imagine you would score 26 or higher on that symptoms test, if I was too have a shot in the dark I would say you might score in the erly 30s…take it see how you do.

P.S

On a silly side note- you might want to drink more water, your albumin is near the top of the normal range and this is sometimes seen in those who are a little dehydrated and not drinking enough water…

Thanks for the feedback,

Hypo, there are a lot of things on your checklist I don’t think apply to me;
I would replace depression with resignation and moments of bad temper.
I notice a lot less sweating than before, in fact I feel I don’t even smell like a man anymore!
And I don’t have a partner and no confidence in looking for one.
So my score is not that high, but I appreciate the point.

I am going to Spain next Tues 20th, and will take some tests at the lab which I haven’t had here in UK. I made a list;

DHT - whatever they call it in Spain
Free T3
DHEA (suggested on Meso -RX forum)
Estrone ‘’
Cortisol

Any other suggestions.
Hypo, you mentioned adrenals - what tests would be involved?
Thanks

Get a free testosterone test.

Hello everyone,
I finally got results from the tests I had in Spain 2 weeks ago. I tested for things I hadn’t been tested for by my urologist in UK. The results were taken over the phone so I may have some of the units of measurement wrong, but I expect them in writing soon.

Free Testosterone 45.1 pmol/l, range: (31.02 - 94)
DHT 2.21 nmol (0.86 - 3.41)
DHEA 12.06 mol (3.76 - 13.08, for men aged 35-44)
Estrone 203.70 m/l ( no range for men)
Estradiol 61.37 ( 62 max )
Free T3 0.220 (0.13 - 0.364)
Pregnenolone 3.81 m/l (0.41 - 1.80)
Progesterone 2.31 n/ml (0.11 - 0.56)
Cortisol 410.2 ( 275 max )

If any are wrong when I get the results in writing I’ll post the corrections.

I get to see the urologist in London next thursday 12th and if anyone can give me ammunition to fire at him re these results I would be very grateful. I get the feeling you get one chance to be taken seriously with these appointments and if you don’t state your case convincingly - like being in court - you’re condemned and forgotten for the rest of your life.
Anyway, maybe it won’t be that dramatic, cheers

Well what I feared actually happened;

Just got back from follow up with urologist Dr Minhas (well his registrar) and they tell me that dealing with hormones is out of their depth and I shoudl see an endo - they only deal with the surgical approach! Could have told me 4 ****ing months ago! - on top of the 3 years+ of my life I have already wasted.

I could wait a few more months to see an endo who will end up telling me the same - Test is within limits, there is nothing wrong.
I knew this would happen, and this is going to continue happening. There are no specialists interested in this problem and it seems to me the only way is to try to fix yourself. I got into this shit on my own and I will have to find a way out on my own.

Hypo, you mentioned Danazol to reduce SHBG or Clomiphene Citrate to restart HPTA. I know no one here can indicate dosages, but sometimes there are ways of obtaining substances and I feel that doing nothing is not an option.
Any comments are welcome. Cheers

forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-hea … 35700.html
i just found this. I guess Shippen is the man. And these are his protocols that many men suffering from Anabolic Steroid induced Hypogonadism as well are also using quite often.

My doc just gave me some Clomid to use for a month.
He said I have “primary hypogonadism” because my T is low, but FSH levels are high.

I have finally got an appt with an Endo at last - 27 July at my local hospital.

It took a lot of persuading my GP to refer me after the waste of time that the urologist in London tuned out to be. But showing him a copy of one of Hypo’s posts must have worked. BTW welcome back Hypo it’s good to hear from you again.

I have been told to get tests done at my sugery 2 weeks b4 of following:
LH, FSH, Test, SHBG, F.T.I. and U&E, Liver profile and Bone profile

Finally go to see the Endo; however the tests I had done 2 wks b4 had not come though yet and he made me take yet more tests and then see him in 6 weeks -yet more time wasted. It seems the tests taken at the hospital in London are not good enough for him.

Anyway I had the following tests done:
TSH, Free T4, Free T3, IGF-1, SHBG, Test, LH, FSH
U&E, Liver profile, Bone profile, Muscle CK
and an adrenal glands tests involving a jab of synthetic ACTH and 2 readings of cortisol 30 mins apart.

I’ll find out the results in mid september and see if he wants to take the bull by the horns and do something about it all. I’ll let you the results if my patience holds that long.

Cheers.

That’s funny. Clomid is used in Secondary HypoG as your T is low due to Pit gland not signaling Testes to produce T. Clomid gets the LH signals sent to the testes to produce more T.

Primary HypoG is where your testes are failing to produce T even with adequate levels of LH. Was you LH and FSH pretty high while T low?
If so, Clomid won’t do anything positive for you…rather increased risk of negative side effects.

Do your homework before taking medications. If you meant to say Secondary HypoG than make sure you post right.

Jack

So I went back to Endo for the nth blood test results. He told me my Free Androgen Index was 44.5 and so was OK! and not hypogonadal! -well I was absolutely gobsmacked. I could not believe it. I showed him copies of article from Dr SHippen and our very own Hypo but he just dismissed these as mere speculation.

I thought I had prepared evidence to cover all eventualities did not expect to have to produce anything showing that a FAI that low was hypogonadal. He didn’t even accept that testosterone levels are age dependant.
He then brought me a copy of some report by an Alex Vermeulen from jcem.endojournals.org that he says proves his point. I have not felt like reading it.

After all this time of fighting I have reached the end of the road in this country -UK. I have to take action myself. I know all that has been said about self medication on this forum, but I can not see any other way.
I have ordered some danazol and will try following a treatment like those detailed in the article quoted on this forum from the following website:

freepatentsonline.com/20050143362.html

Danazol for treatment of hypogonadism in the adult male
EXAMPLE 1

[0025] A man of 50 years reports a lethargic and depressed mood. Blood tests show a hypogonadism in which total testosterone is borderline normal range but SHBG levels are higher than normal. Free testosterone levels are abnormally low and the patient is diagnosed as hypogonadal. Treatment with one 25 milligram danazol capsule three times daily would begin. After one month, he reports greater vigor and an improved mood. Also, blood tests would show that free testosterone has increased and total testosterone and SHBG levels have remained stable.

EXAMPLE 2

[0026] A man of 61 years reports a general physical weakening and decreased libido. Blood tests show a high total testosterone level but SHBG levels are also in the very high range. Free testosterone levels are abnormally low and the patient is diagnosed as hypogonadal. Treatment with one 25 milligram danazol capsule twice a day would begin. After one month, patient reports an increased libido. Also, blood tests would show a new higher level in free testosterone and lower levels of SHBG.

Sorry to hear this, and I understand your frustration as do others here.

Perhaps consider asking Hypo if he can recommend you an Endo in the UK that he himself has seen/been treated by, who is forward thinking on such matters.

Also, have a look through the Doctors section as there are some UK Endos in there that may be worth a call.

Keep us posted.

I would like to hear details of your Danazol treatment. As a few of us on here, myself included, have also wanted to try it but I can’t remember if anyone has had luck with getting the prescription yet.
Anyway, please keep us posted… because although I think I’m about 90% back to normal now, still have a few reoccurring symptoms that bother me, and think SHBG is still quite high…
Anyway, again, good luck! Please keep us well informed.

Glad the forum is back up, I wish I could help but I know next to nothing about IT.
Thanks for the support fellas. I managed to get hold of some Danazol 100mg capsules and am trying one every other day - I hope this is the equivalent of 50mg per day. I’ll try this for a month as per the examples in my previous post. I’ve been on this for 10 days now. I intend to have a short break in Spain next month and get some tests done there, as they are cheaper, and see how SHBG, Testo and Estrogen are doing.
I’ll let you know if I get any joy from this.
Cheers

Well I’ve been taking Danazol for a month now, a 100mg capsule cut in half to make 50mg per day approx. I haven’t noticed any improvement, only a little more fat around the waist- which doesn’t seem to correlate with increased free testosterone!
I’ll be in Spain in 2 weeks and take some new blood tests there.
Anyone know of any more side-effects of Danazol? Hypo maybe?

Cheers

Thanks a lot for the update to.robin. I am praying for you man. You are doing this for many of us. I can’t wait to hear of your success, and hang in there, it may take some time. Eat healthy, stay active, and stay strong please!
Best of luck!
B

I got the results back from the tests I had done on my little break in Spain.
After 6 weeks of taking Danazol @ 50mg/day I got these results:

Serum Testo 5.02 (3 - 10.6) ng/ml
Estradiol 38.9 (< 62) pg/ml
DHT 2.13 (0.86 - 3.41) nmol/l = 61.92 (25 - 99.12) ng/dl
SHBG 13.60 (13.5 - 71.4) nmol/l = 0.39 (0.39 - 2.06) ug/dl
Cortisol 406.88 (65 - 275) ng/ml

It seems SHBG is well down but I haven’t noticed any improvement. The only change seems to be more fat around my waist and backside. I don’t feel any benefit from the supposed increase in free testosterone lower SHBG should bring.
I cycle around a lot and still get sore shoulders which I have felt since my finasteride problems started, as if the muscles can’t recover from any significant physical effort (together with the decreasing muscle mass).

I haven’t got any more Danazol, but am thinking of trying a low dose of Clomid for a period. Yeah, self medication! Its a gamble I know.
Any suggestions welcomed.