dgreene, Your last few posts have been incredibly catty. Perhaps you should take a nap.
If you don’t wish to engage the questions, then don’t. I, unlike you, am interested in how others perceive this particular issue. I’m interested from more of an emotional angle. I don’t expect scientific know how.
I’m all for scientific discussion, in fact I encourage it. Just not the types that involve bogus theories such as candida, or saying our problem is ENTIRELY neurological when the Italians found abnormalities in peripheral tissues. I am especially against people who are not doctors or scientists yet question Harvard MDs and PhDs thinking they have better input into designing a clinical study.
Genital numbness, dulled orgasm, brainfog, anehdonia, loss of visual acuity are well known side effects of androgen deprivation. Jesus H Christ. ‘Problems with spinal fluid’ is a bit random and difficult to judge since practically no one will have tested for that. ‘Amongst others’ eh? What else?
Then there should be no problem providing some good references about these well known ‘side effects’.
Since its so well known, maybe you should tell Dr Irwig and Prof Traish (Prof of Urology and Biochemistry) who have visited Italy, who are 100% up to date with the research, and have since published peer-reviewed academic papers ignoring this ‘androgen receptor’ idea and clearly pointing the blame on a neurological problem.
Uh?
I also want to point out that everyone that has had spinal fluid (CSF) tested has suffered from bad post dural puncture headaches. I think its REALLY important that more people have MS-type investigations of CSF so they need to be aware of this.
Sure.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1477613/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12175403
biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/12/371
Pretty comprehensive really.
They don’t mention numbness, don’t mention loss of orgasm, don’t mention loss of visual acuity, don’t mention anhedonia. You say these side effects are well known, but cant find any evidence for their existence! Also, they mention a whole host of side effects that nobody here even has.
Did you seriously read these studies before posting?
Superficially the problems resemble ADT, but put any thought into it and you will quickly find this cannot be true viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6968 Therefore it must be something else.
Can’t forget freezing cold hands, non-allerginic rhinitis, Eustachian tube dysfunction, rosecia, cuticle recession, thinning skin etc.
I am with Oscar, these scientists (1) knew enough to test neurosteroid levels, (2) had findings consistent with a major problem being neurological in nature. IMO if it was adrogen insensitivty/deprivation we would all have similar set of symptoms. To me the neurological root would explain why not everybody is affected in the same way. Why some people’s testosterone levels are affected and others are not. Just food for thought
•sudden numbness or weakness (especially on one side of the body), problems with speech or balance;
•sudden headache with vision problems
Yes I did, did you?
You’re seriously suggesting to me that loss of orgasm isn’t covered by androgen deprivation?!
More material for you to try and comprehend that loss of androgens can cause severe brain fog/anhedonia. prostatecancerblog.net/?p=23
You continually drone on that there is nothing on record showing loss of androgen action continuing after androgen blockade treatment. I showed you two scientific studies proving otherwise. You then ask for proof that it can be a cause of the mental side effects of PFS, again I give you studies showing it does. Your response? Linking me to your own dumbass ‘theories’ threads!
What should I expect though, I’m dealing with a guy who in this very thread has shown he can’t differentiate between ‘should of’/‘should have’ and ‘your’/you’re’, something most of the rest of us can master by the age of twelve.
This is bogus. Again, look to the guys undergoing full blown androgen blockade treatment with effectively zero testosterone. Some lose muscle, get chronic fatigue, severe brainfog, have to quit jobs etc while others can still have sex fairly often with their wives and play sports a couple of times a week. Practically all of them have some degree of ED and a loss of libido, the other symptoms vary from individual to individual. Sound familiar?
Luckfax-can u find me reports of freezing cold hands, non-allergenic rhinitis, Eustachian tube dysfunction, tinnitus (ear ringing) from it? I also believe the androgen receptor is somehow affected I just thing it starts and ends with neurological root cause.
Fina, I’ve always supported the same theory
It stems from neurological problems.
From there is causes the putiuary gland to send out or not as the case may be, signals to our body parts responsible for most functions.
I too have the odd ear rininging
My biggest concerns now are my T levels of 6.9 nmol
Along with feeling very very weak, confused, memory loss, insomnia to name a few, along with the fact I’m in a mental home whilst they try to force anti depressant pills on me, which I am going to take to please them as I’m losing the will to live.
If I was not in here right now, I’d be dead. Who knows what the future holds for me.
Lost my job, my ability to love my own kids. Sorry for the additional rant.
Fina if you simply google low testosterone and tinnitus/cold extremities you will find reams of stuff linking them. Shippen even mention tinnitus as a low T symptom in ‘The Testosterone Syndrome’. I believe it is the other way around and we have neurological symptoms from the root cause of a malfunctioning beyond the androgen receptor, perhaps at the cellular level.
Check the last study I have linked to which irrefutably shows, via a functional MRI, that brain connectivity and functionality is hampered via loss of androgens.
This talk of symptoms is seriously misleading: We are no longer using an anti-androgen!
●Some side effects of ADT may very well be permanent, ED, libido, gyno, even osteoperosis. There is no reason to rewrite the text books because of this. But importantly there is no record of the other side effects persisting. Quite the opposite, ADT is sometimes given intermittently to lessen the side effects.
●There is also no record of anyone getting worse after stopping anti-androgens.
●No record of symptoms starting only after stopping anti-androgens!
●No record of these things after 50 years of the invention of anti-androgens, in a very well researched area of science. And you would expect men undergoing full androgen ablation to have a higher incidence of these things if they where known to occur!
●Not only that, but there is no known way in science to stop the effects of androgens other than by continuously using anti-androgens. Otherwise the cure for cancer would have already been discovered!
●It is also obvious the symptoms clearly don’t match ADT anyway!
Therefore its obvious some people on this forum at least are suffering from a rare side effect specific to Finasteride.
I’m due to have an MRI brain scan of my putiuary gland next week to check brain receptors to see if my neurons of my gland in the brain is damaged by propecia!!!
I’ll update on the result afterwards.
They want to establish if my low T is due to lack of production in the brain or testes or both before I commence my TRT.
Tigershull- make sure it’s a fMRI…I think they will be shocked at the results
Oscar’s symptoms:
So you attribute your bolded symptoms to “a neurological basis,” correct?
The only thing we know about PFS is that we know nothing about PFS.
that is the absolute truth … luckily, the foundation is working on fixing this in a big, big way
Actually they know already there is a difference in neurosteroid levels between PFS and control group. They know more than that too, they just haven’t released that information yet. The scientists are not as in the dark as you make it sound.