Anybody think Propecia could cause MS?
My symptoms are very very similar.
Its a good idea to get yourself checked out for this just in case. See a neurologist, get an MRI etc.
Loss of sensation and ‘brain fog’ are certainly things neurologists deal with.
Other people on this forum have been diagnosed with neuropathy, others have had unusual findings in their spinal fluid. However nobody has been diagnosed with MS and I don’t think anybody has found any demyelination either (yet). A doctor once told me we may have encephalopathy which may be something to explore too.
We are suffering androgen deprivation.
Men who undergo castration treatment - testosterone reduced to near zero levels - to stop prostate cancer spreading experience the exact same symptoms we do. Have a look askapatient.com/viewrating.a … ort=gender Let’s not overcomplicate things here.
Luckfax
Nobody knows exactly what the hell is going on with us, but yes I take your point on the link you provided, very similar symptoms, however, so many of the MS Symptoms seem to fit too, or at least they do for me…
Early signs of MS
Balance, walking and dizziness
Bladder
Bowel
Eyes and sight
Fatigue
Memory and thinking
Mental health
Pain
Sexual problems
Spasms and stiffness
Speech
But this is during androgen depravation! It doesn’t occur after they stop! I’ve been over this a hundred times!
Do you seriously think every single doctor and every single scientist in the $$$billion$$$ dollar cancer research industry have missed this?
Do you seriously think they all missed this fact - or do you think you know something they don’t? Or do you just not understand?
And what about other symptoms like numbness?
Do me a favour and read these:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 … 066.x/full
europepmc.org/articles/PMC310775 … XWa10Oi.16
Luckfax
Your theory seems to be along the right lines and I feel lack of androgens play a massive part in our condition but I also believe neurologocally, along the lines of Nerve damage, brain signals, etc are also a huge part of PFS which falls in line with MS. Chronic fatigue, muscle spasms etc, all form part of the central nervous system within our brain/neurons.
I am convinced we have a whole load of bodily functions and controls which get messed up by Propecia.
MS is a slow progressing disease in most cases, and even in the most extreme cases it doesn’t completely develop overnight as in the crash we have. Symptoms like chronic fatigue, sleep disorders and brain fog are common with extremely low or no testosterone, as are the many prostate problems including the ones you describe having tigers. We took an anti androgen, our response to androgens is screwed up there is no great mystery. We’re eunuchs.
Oh ‘screwed up’ well that makes sense, you should of said so earlier. You clearly know what your talking about.
That’s probably why academics that have published papers about this problem (Dr Irwig, Prof Traish) said this… oh no wait, they never mentioned anything like this at all, they clearly stated that the problem is neurological. Someone should tell them our response to androgens is ‘screwed up’ they obviously have forgotten about this well known phenomenon.
You seriously cannot understand the difference between using an anti-androgen and no longer using an anti-androgen!?! I mean ED, ok but not the other things, you cannot be serious!
So you think this has nothing to do with androgens then?
Luckfax- I took propecia for 9 years, almost 3,500 pills of 1 mg with absolutely no side effects. Felt great, muscular, great sex, etc. When exactly did the anti-androgen effects take place? There is something much more sinister going on, and I agree with Oscar, everything is seemingly pointing to a neurological root.
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I also agree this is neurological.
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I write this message from my mental home bed all thanks to Finasteride!!!
I am very unstable.
In reply to this post I am 99% certain our problems are neurological without any doubt.
This goes along the lines of supported by my penis now bending and hanging to the left
Muscle spasms in my left thumb making it unvoluntary move and spasm as well as all over my body!!!
It’s brain signals fucked up by this drug and whilst I accept and support other theories such as androgens etc neurons fucked by propecia are also the cause of suicidal thoughts I’m having.
It fries our brains!!!
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What you are suggesting is that Androgen receptors are now insensitive to androgens. There are very good reasons why this shouldn’t be considered at least in the fist instance. (Compared to a neurological disorder for example.)
Fact 1. There is zero evidence in science that acquired AR insensitivity is possible, despite the billions of cancer $s invested into researching ARs.
Fact 2. No academic that has published into this problem has ever said anything like this (and they have both visited Italy) nor has any doctor said this to any of their patients.
Fact 3. Hypogonadism simply doesn’t explain some symptoms.
I give a pretty good account of all this here; viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6968
I don’t want it to seem like I’m attacking awor but there has been a lot posted on this forum that simply ignores these facts and has maybe mislead you. For example; viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5282&start=380&hilit=doctors#p53112
The “academics that have published into this problem” helped with the B&W research design. You’re so out of the loop it’s funny. You can go back to your Phantom Estrogen Antibody Imbalance Theory thread now.
No, you don’t.
What is this supposed to mean exactly?
They clearly think the problem is neurological. There is no doubt. Just look at the most recent papers they have published:
Prof Traish: aace.metapress.com/content/t02936j2760g6483/
Just throwing this out. MTHFR mutations can cause MS like symptoms.
jrheum.com/subscribers/07/02/341.html
Results. Brain and/or spinal cord MRI abnormalities were found in all 20 patients. Based on morphologic criteria and distribution, these lesions were classified into 3 subsets: (1) multiple sclerosis (MS)-like (4 patients); (2) vasculitic (8 patients); and (3) nonspecific (8 patients). The most frequent underlying abnormality in patients with subgroups 1 and 2 were the presence of homozygous methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) mutations (5 of 12, 41.6%). The most common findings among subgroup 3 were the presence of antithyroid antibodies (6 of 8 patients, 75%).
Conclusion. Homozygous MTHFR mutations are frequently encountered in patients presenting with neurological features and MS-like or vasculitic type MRI abnormalities in a setting of autoimmune disease. Nonspecific MRI changes are frequently associated with antibodies against thyroid antigens. (J Rheumatol 2007;34:341-5)
Oscar, you are wasting your time arguing about this. The study protocol has been designed. There could potentially also be further studies to investigate other aspects (ie, neurosteroids) more in depth.
The current study is simply the first stepping stone and initial phase of research. Arguing about what is being studied is pointless, you cannot change the outcome and I’m not sure what your point is in trying to argue such things anyway… to dissuade people from participating?
It means the “academics that have published into this problem” helped with the B&W research design.
It’s cute that you think you have something of value to add to this community, but you don’t so you can stop playing pretend now. To think that you need to save B&W from a flawed research design is beyond laughable. No one even remotely takes that seriously. There is nothing you need to Google for them. They have been communicating with Drs Irwig and Traish for years. They don’t need you to tell them what Irwig and Traish “clearly think”.
Once again, you have nothing of value to add to this community by telling us what you think is going on, and no one is remotely convinced you do. It’s not clear what you think you have to gain but your time would be better spent working on “falling in love with a woman” since “that’s the most important thing.”