Multiple sclerosis

General Discussion
#21

I think a better way to look at this is that they do know that finasteride has affected certain neurosteroids, this is confirmed by previous rat studies as well as the findings in Italy, not to mention as SA said Dr. Traish’s involvement, so they know there is a neurological component. The question would be why and how are they affected. The use of the MRI imaging would lend credence to this as part of the study. Again, tying together the affects on neurosteroids and other suspicions and findings based on clinical evaluation and previous studies is seemingly whats key to our success here.

If I am not mistaken, this is the first clinical / physical objective and subjective comprehenive study of patients who have reported prolonged side effects of Finasteride even after discontinuation…We should be jumping for joy!

BTW. the program coordinator is extremely excitied about getting this underway!

#22

Mew, I’m not arguing about what is being studied and I’m certainly not suggesting that people shouldn’t participate. Somebody else mentioned the study, this thread is about MS. Remember, an MRI forms part of that study too, a neurological basis is also under investigation (as Finatruth said above).

All I am trying to do is get some high standards of logical and critical thinking on this forum. Possibly is a waste of time.

#23

Really curious to know what all these symptoms are that have nothing do with lack of response to androgens.

#24

The neurological ones. The interesting ones. Like numbness (there have been diagnoses of neuropathy), dulled orgasm, severe brainfog, anhedonia, loss of visual acuity and problems with spinal fluid (that are more than just low neurosteroids btw) amongst others.

In fact all symptoms can have a neurological basis and none are necessarily due to a lack of response to androgens. Prof Traish has stated that the ED is due to nerve damage. This makes more sense than telling men with ED they are epigenetically insensitive to androgens in their penis, don’t you think?

#25

This is incoherent.

#26

I understand that we may have symptoms similar to MS, but no one here has been diagnosed with MS. The researchers are doing fMRIs and biopsies and will come to a much better understanding of what is going on with us.

Let the Harvard MDs and PhDs do the thinking and theorizing.

#27

If you say so. Since you’re a 9/11 conspiracy theorist and follow the ‘Truther Girls’ you cannot assess information; which will cause confusion unfortunately. I cant help.

I know (see my first post in this thread.)

I know (see my first post on this 2nd page).

#28

Truth. Are they doing fMRI’s as part of the research study? I wasn’t sure I saw that listed anywhere, but this would make me very happy. I would be interested to see what comes back from that (I figure SOMETHING clearly would have to show up, yes?)

#29

I’m not a conspiracy theorist and don’t ever call me one again.

Saying “all symptoms can have a neurological basis” is 17th century dualism and nothing approaching “high standards of logical and critical thinking.” You clearly do not understand the pathways involved. You can rest assured it’s far more complex than “a neurological basis”. What the scientists are studying has nothing to do with your incoherent ramblings of phantom DHT or “a neurological basis.” It’s best for you to go back offline and work on “falling in love with a woman” and stop wasting your time and ours.

#30

The press release / recruitment ad mentions MRI testing. Doesn’t specify whether it’s fMRI or not.

My question is: what if all the f/MRI scans reveal nothing?

There are some on here who have already had scans and have been given the all clear. Many PSSD and Accutane sufferes with identical symptoms have reported normal MRI and PET activity. I am awaiting the results of my recent MRI.

Are normal brain scan results a good thing given our circumstances?

#31

Awesome, I missed this in the PR. I really would hope for an fMRI at some point throughout the study. But it’s possible they are only doing MRI’s. It seems like several have had MRI’s done and that they don’t produce much. Wasn’t somebody discussing CT scans at some point though? Saying that something might show up on those?

#32

Why don’t you all participate in the study and find out what they are doing? If you are not donating to the research and not even participating in the research then don’t expect to ever receive any treatment.

#33

Some of us have no means to contribute, presently. We will contribute when we get our first paycheck in two years in September :slight_smile:

#34

You guys had the means to buy Propecia, an expensive drug. Also, you are given some compensation by participating.

#35

Yes, I had the means to buy Propecia before it destroyed my life and I lost my well-paying job. Again, I go back to work next week so I will have money coming in, will donate, and attempt to participate if it’s still going on in a few months. I’ve asked my wealthy parents to fund my travel. They refused. They don’t believe it is real. Sorry man. I will make up for it.

#36

Proof. viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6660&hilit=truther . Luckily my intervention prevented Dr Irwig being dragged into that ridiculous mess. Maybe you have now learnt from the incident.

Well, do all problems show up on an MRI? Does the problem have to be demyelinating? What other types of neurological problem are there?

#37

Oscar, I understand that and it wasn’t quite what I was getting at. I meant two things.

  1. How credible would it be for our cause if all brain scans came back negative? This is in relation to those suffering with brain fog or anhedonia.
  2. How would other members on the board react to such news? Would they be pleased or not?

Of course, this is just speculation for now. I have no idea what will happen. However, I only brought it up because it has already been addressed by others on the board who have previously received scans.

Regardless of what other aspects of the study reveal, I am curious to hear reactions to this part of the testing process. If it’s too far off topic then I apologise.

#38

fMRI is different from MRI.

fMRI
Functional magnetic resonance imaging or functional MRI (fMRI) is an MRI procedure that measures brain activity by detecting associated changes in blood flow.[1] This technique relies on the fact that cerebral blood flow and neuronal activation are coupled. When an area of the brain is in use, blood flow to that region also increases. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional … ce_imaging)

MRI
Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), nuclear magnetic resonance imaging (NMRI), or magnetic resonance tomography (MRT) is a medical imaging technique used in radiology to visualize internal structures of the body in detail. MRI makes use of the property of nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) to image nuclei of atoms inside the body. MRI can create more detailed images of the human body than are possible with X-rays. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_ … ce_imaging)

Our MRIs results are negative meaning there is no STRUCTURAL anomaly of our nervous system. In MS, the myelin around nerves is degraded resulting in a plaque appearance. Many of our doctors prescribes MRIs to eliminate the possibility of a pituitary tumor, which would show up.

An fMRI on the other hand, will look at brain FUNCTION by measuring blood flow (which corresponds to neuronal activity). I would guess just because of reduced libido, our fMRIs will show less brain activity in the areas responsible for libido. I would assume it would also show something relating to brain fog. However, I could be wrong. This study and the tissue biopsy are crucial in order to gain a better understanding.

#39

So I think I better make my point crystal clear, just in case…

REGARDLESS of the scanning technology: fMRI, standard MRI, CT, or PET.

If they ALL show up negative, how will that be perceived by other members?

Now, I know that this current study is planning to use either fMRI or standard MRI, and I also know that they measure different things. But going from previous reports, which have included all of the above scanning methods…how will it impact the opinions of others and the cause at large should collective scans (be they in the immediate or distant future) prove negative?

There, I’ve said my piece.

#40

Who gives a shit what propeciahelp forum members think. The majority of people here are not scientists nor doctors.

If the results are negative, then it will be harder to prove a definitive negative effect of finasteride on brain physiology for those who care a lot about the law suits. If the results are negative that is better in terms of how much finasteride messed us up. It will show that the neurons in the brain are functioning relatively normally.

If the results are positive, it will show that our brains are not working properly and therefore PFS is partly neurological.

However, biopsy studies have been done already and more will be done showing that there is also a lasting effect of finasteride on peripheral tissues. So we know PFS is not entirely neurological.