Methylation Cycle and The P450 Systems

General Discussion
#87

Hi guys, I have my 23andme results, who should I give them to?
I know we have a spreadsheet somewhere

#88

I think the person to contact is droit

#89

Hi Mario, I’m reposting a comment that I made in the “What am I doing wrong” thread (http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8894#p80930), that could be relevant here:

#90

Hi guys, i came here just to let you know there is somethimng called “sterling app” on mthfrsupport site. It costs 20 dollars but gives you lots more info on you raw data from 23and me.

I now found that i have some mutations that are linked to complex type I deficiencies in the mitochondria. This has something to do with nad+ and nadh but i still havent read it thorough.

Thought id let you know, probably there is something more going on appart from just methylation cycle impairment

#91

Very interesting and i second that. From my research i have seen that something could be attributed to impaired NADH/NADPH usage. Just yesterday i started NADH/ENADA supplementation and will post results. User Costa already tried but i just read that this stuff needs at least a month of supplementation to show results.

Xptriado if you try this, make sure you combine it with D-Ribose.

#92

Mario I’m thinking I probably will not going to try anything else at this point. I’m thinking about the next step.
As I’m unsure the methylation protocol worked, I want to do some functional testing. How much did yours cost and where did you do them?

But please,by all means, let us know your experience with this NADH supplement.

Please follow my thread at PhoenixRising, these people are extremely helpful. One user Caledonia has a very interesting document she wrote based on experience and knowledge about roadblocks to methylation. Please read it through as it seems very important. Addressing methylation seems much more complex than just taking B12 and B9.
forums.phoenixrising.me/index.ph … ost-447951

#93

I also ran Promethease…I seem to have several gene mutations related to Parkinson’s, Restless Legs, depression, a couple of them related to ADHD and a particular one related to less D2 receptors. So all Dopamine related dysfunctions.

This could mean something…or not. its still interesting though since it fits my interpretation of dopaminergic problems, from my story and symptoms.

On the other hand I also appear to have, ironically, many mutations linked to lower risk of baldness lolol who know what these results all mean…fuckin hell

#94

I would like to ask you, if you can find your ME2 gene and see if there is a problem there? It is involved in production of Malic Enzyme 2 in the mitochondria.

“ME2 is a nuclear genome-coded enzyme that localizes in the mitochondria and is expressed in the brain. Its primary function appears to be reversibly catalyzing NADP- and NADPH (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate)–dependent oxidative decarboxylation of malate to pyruvate and carbon dioxide. However, it also is indirectly involved in the synthesis of γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) in neurons, in that it supplies a perhaps critical pool of pyruvate for GABA synthesis”

#95

Hi Guys,

I have been extremely busy lately and so i did not have time to write. Here is my update :

There are good news and bad news. The Bad news is that i crashed twice (tinnitus came back on both occasions) but this was entirely my mistake. The reason for the first crash is that i combined HCG with D3 and K2 and ATRA intake on one day. As a consequence this induced P450scc too much which my body could not handle and hence there was the crash. The second mistake is that for more than a week i was eating a special type of salad we have here which contains Red Peppers and Eggplant. If you search my old posts you will see why Red Peppers was a bad choice : They contain Astaxanthin which is a potent DHT inhibitor. The day that i stopped eating this salad, tinnitus came back.

The good news is that despite the tinnitus (which i came to learn that is a sign of when i am crashing) this time i had no side effects : No loss of Erections, no depression, no insomnia, nothing. I still have Brain Fog however when weather turns bad (at times - not always).

I started NADH ENADA two weeks ago and i can definitely say that is working on my energy level. NADH needs at least a month to show benefits in case you want to try it and this may be the reason of lack of side effects when i crashed (?). Anyway this needs more time and so i will wait until one month passes since i started it.

Generally speaking i have no problem in achieving very good quality erections (although this takes time now as opposed to instant erections 2 years ago - something which i will probably have to live with). I have no depression, no insomnia, constipation solved to 90%. Some brain fog kicked in but this happened because i forgot what i didn’t suppose to be doing. I am building a list with DO’s and DONT’s and will post shortly.

Stay Strong :slight_smile:

Mario

PS : @xptriado @elijah i will have a look and reply shortly

#98

Utter nonsense about avoiding intense cardio and weight training IMO. Better to get down the gym and stop believing this stuff.

#99

Please educate yourself. Currently 184 Results on Pubmed regarding exercise-induced oxidative stress, 959K results on Google. Do some research before you write about “utter nonsense” next time :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?ter … s+response

If you have anything else to say regarding this please PM me. Allow some people to read what i posted previously… Cheers Mate.

#100

In my humble opinion, pfs victims need to be in the gym getting endorphins from intense exercise, I feel this is the way forward, and most of the recoveries seems to back this up. Ie cdnuts and chi.

You should use some use some common sense and drop these bizarre and IMO downright dangerous theories (taking large doses of vitamins) and get down the gym.

#101

Been taking 1000mg methylcobalimin for over a week and getting early wakefulness from it, like waking two hours before I usually do.

Don’t know whether to just ditch it or carry on by maybe halving the pill and hope it goes away. Probably the former as it’s making no difference and bad sleep and the fatigue that goes with it is one of the sides I’d got rid of.

#102

Thanks Mario. Great post, as usual.

#103

Waking up early is one of the sides that i experienced and D3 supplementation corrected it. I don’t know if you take D3. Check your 25 (OH) D levels and supplement accordingly. 5000 IU every day for a month probably will not hurt.

#104

Hi Guys,

Here is an update on how things are going : Neurological side effects have faded away : BrainFog, Constipation, Irregular Heartbeat, Insomnia, all gone. Yesterday i crashed ( i had tinnitus which signals problems) but i had no side effects! Tinnitus did not affect me in any way. In the past if this would happen, it would signal side effects such as Impotence, Insomnia and Depression.

I will continue my current regimen. Although it seems that tinnitus is still there at times, i do not have any side effects.

My regimen is as follows : Notice that i have secondary hypogonadism and subclinical hypothyroidism.

Morning, upon waking up : ENADA NADH 5 mg, Combination of T3/T4 50mg
<Wait 1 hour>
1/2 tab MethylCobalamin (500 mg), 1/4 tab Dibencozide (2.15 mg)
1000 mg TMG
Selenium 100 mcg
Magnesium - 400 mg
CoQ10 100 mg
Zinc/Copper (15mg/750 mcg)
Metafolin - 800 mcg
D-Ribose - 5 grams
<Wait at least 2 hours>
Vitamin C - 1000 mg

I then cycle the following :

HCG : 500 IU twice a week (for hypogonadism) in the morning
Vitamin K2 100 mcg + Vitamin A 500 IU + Vitamin D3 5000 IU (after lunch)

You should be careful with Vitamin A as in my experience brings Brainfog and various other Neurological side effects. Vitamin A lowers MTHFR activity but induces Neurosteroid Production. Make sure you start small and also you do no take Vitamin A along with other methyl supplements. I take Vitamin A after lunch which is usually around 8 hrs after the intake of methylation supplements. Make sure also that you know which foods contain large amounts of Vitamin A and adjust your dosage accordingly.

#105

Hi Mario,
hope things are going good. I’d like to give a second try to Ubiquinol QH, and I noticed that the brand I used (Jarrow) has rosemary and soy-based choline. Which brand are you using?
Apart from that in the past months I have been pretty stable, the addition of Iodine (Detoxadine), Zinc+Selenium, and DIM with no bioperine was beneficial and gave me back nocturnal and spontaneous erections. Only in the last few weeks I tried two things that gave me the usual high-then-low rollercoaster effect: I took first D-aspartic acid and then Fenugreek for ten days each. At the beginning they gave me a boost in libido, stronger erection, oiliness and itching in the scalp. I couldn’t stand the itching, so I stopped to see what happened, unfortunately now the itching has not subsided much, on the other hand the sexual sides have come back. I read somewhere that D-aspartic upregulates aromatase, it could be due to that. Also, in the past month I have been eating a lot of almond sweets, that may have made things worse because nuts are one of the food with highest content of beta-sitosterol. I still don’t understand why a mild 5ar inhibitor would give me trouble if both my DHT and 3a-Diol G are high, but this is what happens, the only other association that comes to mind would be the PSA reduction, but I don’t know if this is far-fetched conclusion.

My regimen:
Morning
methylcobalamine 5mg - Life Extension
L-Tyrosine 500 mg - pure bulk
Taurine 250 mg - pure bulk
Kombucha Tea
Vitamin D 5000units - Seeking Health
Lunch
DIM 100mg
15mg Zinc 1mg copper - Jarrow
Selenium 200 mcg - Nature’s way
Forskolin 250mg - New You Vitamins
SAM-e 72mg - Cellfood

#107

UPDATE :

I had to change my regimen from HCG to Clomid. The reason is that i am getting tired having to inject twice a week. Plus, at some point a really nasty bruise showed up and i thought that maybe there is a better way. I have no idea how to dose Clomid and whether i should use Anastrazole or something similar for regulating E2.

After 3 days of HCG cessation, problems of erection and libido started. I did not start Clomid straight away but left my body free from any T booster for about 1.5 weeks and then started. Prior starting Clomid i had blood tests for Free T and E2 :

E2 : 39.6 (7.6 - 42.6 pg/ml)
Free T : 10.5 (7.6 - 54.7 pg/ml)

Notice how E2 is on the higher end and Free T on the lower end.

I intend having Free T and E2 at the end of next week. Currently I am on 25mg of Clomid every night (apart from rest of the supplemets i take).

Most importantly there has been an incident of complete loss of libido and erections. The reason was that a severe temperature drop has happened where i live. It was like summer and then the Temperature has dropped more than 12 C (53.6 F) in one day. So the pattern is still there : Any abrupt drop of Temperature or Barometric pressure messes things up. I have no idea how this is connected to PFS, it may well be anecdotal but maybe other sufferers have the same problems as i do.

This tells me that i am not there yet. I hope that my transition to Clomid will be without any more problems, i am keeping my fingers crossed.

#108

clomid has sides. medicines wont help in long term. i would prefer not to engage with pituarity…so clomid. problem is not pituary related. estogens also.maybe you are messing your recovery.

you can try syntetic dht ask this for your doc.

#109

Don’t know why you went on Clomid, I would have tried iodine supplementation first. Clomid does raise LH and FSH, and this leads to an increase of total Testosterone, although this doesn’t guarantee at all that the bioavailable/free T will increase in the same fashion (that’s what happened to me with Clomid: LH/FSH/T/E/DHT/3aDiol G all went to the roof, while the bioav T stayed more or less the same). However if you don’t use an aromatase inhibitor your Estradiol will almost certainly jump. Arimidex and all the other AIs are p450 inhibitors. Whenever I took Arimidex, or worse, Myomin my libido went to zero.
As for the rest, I got recently the genetic results and I have homozygous mutation of the MTHFR C677T. I’m still taking all the methylation supplements that I wrote in my previous email. I tried adding vitamin K2 but I felt it had adverse effect even after sticking to it for 5 days. The question about K2 is whether it would temporarily make me worse to then get better later, but this is not my impression. In the past I tried methylfolate but it gave me headache, I read on the MTHFR support website that Niacinamide should mitigate the adverse effects of methylfolate, so next time I’ll try them together.
Have you tried coconut oil to increase 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD?