I’ll be the next person posting my 23andme results.
THe thing is my situation is a bit complicated and I’m not sure that my symptoms are strictly from finasteride. I have had epilepsy, some social anxiety and other neurological stuff before…but I think finasteride has really aggravated it all and I still have my lovely gyno that i got from it nearly 10 years ago…
Good Choice. Please post your results to the Methylation thread started by Droit. It sounds to me like epilepsy could be irrelevant but social anxiety and neurological side effects are not irrelevant at all to Finasteride.
Hey Guys,
Very quick update : On my way for FULL recovery. Almost complete lack of neurological side effects and getting better each day, erections still to 100%.
I’ve done some more researching and will post very shortly i am just very very busy at the moment.
i thought they stopped offering the non-genealogical 23 and me tests?
from the wiki
This is on their website. As far as I understand they give you just the raw data. They don’t do an analysis like before. Though they will still get you the genetic data.
They also answered me this last week:
Either this or I just lost 150€:P… but I think i’m right 
looks like i’m wrong. maybe i should look into getting one.
Dear All,
Probably a very important post so i would kindly request that you refrain from posting directly in this thread for 4-5 days so other members of the forum will see this information. In case you want to submit questions please PM me and i will post them.
In trying to identify the connection between Finasteride, Methylation Cycle and P450 Systems i’ve found some info that requires attention.
First of all, P450 Systems need something called NADPH : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_P450
Actually there exists a gene called NADPH:ferrihemoprotein oxidoreductase, aka POR aka Cytochrome P450 reductase. If you use Biograph to search which CYPs are related to it here are the results :
1 CYB5A gene Gene Known Explain
2 CYP17A1 gene Gene Known Explain
3 CYP1A2 gene Gene Known Explain
4 CYP2E1 gene Gene Known Explain
5 CYCS gene Gene Known Explain
6 XRCC6 gene Gene Known Explain
7 CYP2C19 gene Gene Known Explain
8 CYP2C9 gene Gene Known Explain
9 CYB5B gene Gene Inferred Explain
10 HMOX1 gene Gene Known Explain
11 CYB5R1 gene Gene Inferred Explain
12 CYB5R3 gene Gene Inferred Explain
13 SCD5 gene Gene Inferred Explain
14 CYP2B6 gene Gene Inferred Explain
15 CYP1A1 gene
In the list we see some CYPs that have been described in this thread.
From wikipedia entry for NADPH :
NADPH also happens to be important for transforming Folic acid to THF : pathman.smpdb.ca/pathways/SMP00053/pathway
Finasteride uses NADPH as a substrate : ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9658376
Glucose is an important element for generating NADPH so this could be a reason why i felt much better when consuming large amounts of Sugar (this has been discussed in previous posts).
Here is a patent for treating CFS : google.nl/patents/US5712259 from 1998 (…!)
NADPH boosting has been also discussed in Phoenix Rising. “Rich Vank” writes :
[b]So it appears that : Methylation problems lead also to decreased NADPH production which in turn leads to impaired P450 functionality which in turn creates problem to neurosteroids, Testosterone production, etc.
[/b]
For this reason i will also try to increase NADPH production through either D-Ribose or Co-enzymated B3 (apart from Methylation supplements) and this should speed up my healing even more . I will post the results.
Hello Guys,
Here is an update on how my regimen is going plus some things that could also be of interest.
I am still moving towards my full recovery. Incidences of neurological side effects appear to be diminishing as time passes by, both in Frequency and intensity. Erections to 100%
The regimen is as follows : 1000 mg TMG, 1/4 tablet of Dibencozide sublingually (approx 2.15 mg) + 1 tab (1 g) of Solgar methylcobalamin sublingually. The addition of Dibencozide (AdenosylB12) helped even more i believe.
For Induction of P450scc i rotate the following :
I use Forskolin when it is not possible for me to inject HCG.
I did try D-Ribose to boost NADPH but i saw no effect. Anyway i will continue to take it to be certain. I will also use Enzymated B3 for this reason and will post results.
I noticed -again- the following pattern : Whenever i try to boost P450scc, neurological side effects occur (although now i can barely feel them). If i stop all attempts of boosting P450scc there is a decrease in the quality of erections but also complete lack of neurological side effects. So it appears that Testosterone and/or Neurosteroid production somehow induces Oxidative stress. Glutamate excitotoxicity also appears to be one of the problems that was affecting me.
One more thing that deserves attention is that i incorrectly wrote about NADPH being a substrate for Finasteride (thanks to xptriado for pointing out this mistake).
I am curious if anyone has tried to boost p450scc with the methods shown above (Forskolin, D3, K2, ATRA etc) so please let me know how this went if you did try it.
I’m taking D3 too
I thoguht I had noticed more sensitivity a few days ago, but really today, wow, definetely I have much much more sensitivity!!! It’s been so long I’m not 100% on that departament that I cant remember how it was before but I have to tell you that if it is always like today, i’m pretty good. I also feel a rush of pleasure that goes until the belly and legs, due to increased sensitivity and I feel like I am “ready to go”…if that makes any sense to you. This increase in sensitivity happened at least two times and I think it coincided with increased intake of D3. I normally take 5000IU, today I took 15.000IU. I saw some research papers saying these high dosages are safe…still, I’m not comfortable with it.
I dont know if this helps you
@Mario
What do you think about enada/nadh?
@xptriado
I take 50.000ius of D3 per week. biotechpharmacal.com/catalo … -50000-iu/
I believe D3 is safe in large doses. In cancer patients they provide ultra-high doses like 30000ius per day.
Hi,
I’m more sociable lately! Even if i still feel a bit tired, I dont feel DEAD TIRED like before, I used to feel SICK. Now I’m just tired…
I’m again more open to people. I can see more clearly many things now, it seems.
I’m still cutting back on the trazodone, Im @12.5mg. In 1week I will cut it more.
Unfortunately my spasms are not being kept at bay 100%, and I have todya a strange feeling in my chest, like shivers, once in a while. I also felt again eye twitching yesterday. I am attributing all this to withdrawal from trazodone because trazodone blocks 5HT2A which controls smooth muscle contraction, vasconstriction/vasodilation and CNS neuronal excitation. It probably has something to do.
Erection wise some days are better than others.
Time will tell…
I’m now starting to read on CBD as well since I am coming to the conclusion many of my problems are related to a latent epileptic brain activity which doesn’t show up in EEG now but it did when I was a kid. I heard you can get it shipped to europe withouth any problem as its not a forbidden substance.
@Costa it’s worth a try.
Make sure you check your 25 OH(D) Levels to see that your D3 is not in toxic levels.
Hi Mario, I will.
But I’m pretty sure I’m low on this as Im from a sunny country but now I live in Belgium
I do not know anything about this particular theory, but I will add that a guy claims to be recovered from Rifampicin.
This study shows that it induces P450.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article … 18/?page=2
Hi guys, I have a couple questions:
I seem to be in a better mood, and my libido and erections seem fine for the moment.
I seem to wake up tired and MethylCobalamin still makes me tired after ingestion. I think that last week I had a few days where I was very clear mind and happy because 25mgm trazdoone were helping me have more sleep efficiency, but the trazodone makes me wake up early like clockwork everyday, opposed to not waking up early on a daily basis withouth it, just a few times a week…
@Mario what is exactly the NADP you bought and tried?
Thanks!
hi Mario, if you’ll write me a PM could you explain a bit why you think Methionine is such a bad idea? Diphenhydramine gives me a (not restful) but continuous sleep and I was wondering if high histamine could have something to do. I read on high histamine symptoms and they fit well for the most part. I also see it’s connected to the methylation cycle so I would expect that I could see more improvement with my sleep than what I’m seeing at the moment, as I’m already supplementing the methylation cycle.
I think I will eventually drop the methylcobalamin.
Hey guys,
I’m very much appreciative of you posts, research advice, analysis and revisions to your own treatment regimens. Truly.
Having said this, and having sampled many of the posted treatment plans for methylation pathways, TRT, supplementation recommendations, vitamins and supplement recommendations… I’m reaching a point of actually being fearful and lost in the abundance of information…
I have purchased nearly EVERY SINGLE ITEM listed which was either recommended or experimented with on this board.
The current count of bottles of ‘vitamins or supplements or creams’ comes to total of 46, yes that’s FORTY SIX bottles of pills which I just counted in my cabinet. ALL of which I have hoped would provide some benefit to my recovery.
This does not include the Protien powders, or addional T supplements or the previously purchased and tried supplements over the past 4 years which didn’t prove to be beneficial.
The reason I post on this thread is not to discount our dimminish any potential help from the incredible research and testing from anyone else, but only to express my own frustration with having tried soooooo many recommendations and I’m still struggling with these issues:
Major Depression.
Extreme sadness over my recent divorce.
Inability to be happy or joyful.
Loss of confidence or feeling like a real man.
Inability to be willing fully social.
Inability to lose the stubborn belly fat.
Struggle to add muscle even after having a workout track record of 70 days in the past 5 months.
And continuing phases of extreme fatigue which makes me sleep till 10am or even 1pm in the afternoon. (but this could be considered a positive compared to the 4 or 5hrs I could sleep last year).
Now for the sex part… I’m actually improving in this area but only evident from masturbation. Once I knew my marriage was over, I reduced and ultimately stopped doing this for a number of reasons. But essentially, I think it’s possible that I could perform on demand, however, it’s the remaining side effects which have not only captivated my mind, heart and soul, but have reduced me to being an invaluable, worthless, unwanted and undesirable man.
I’ve been living on the bottom in an existence that nobody would want. I’ve had many thoughts of ending it all and struggle with why I should continue to fight and keep trying all of the things advised on this site. I’m having a really hard time believing there is an end or a solution to this suffering. The only, and I mean ONLY thing, which has kept me alive, is that I have faith that there is a GOD and that all of this suffering is for a reason. I just don’t know what the reason is, nor do I know how my life or struggle is supposed to benefit anyone else on this planet.
From within each experiment, methylation pathway, TRT plan, workout and exercise, vitamin or supplement routine, there are constant revisions, updates, changes and feedback on each plan. So HOW THE HELL AM I TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS WORKING AND WHAT IS NOT WORKING???
Is it even possible for someone to post a KNOWN and beneficial regimen for treating certain side effects from PROPECIA to an area on this site which can be accessed and relied upon without having to read through hundreds of posts of various opinions and alterations from the poster over time???
Lastly, please know that I am truly greatful and thankful for the incredibly helpful data, information and attempts to report results. I don’t mean to offend anyone, only that I am currently quite frustrated. I am entering my 5th year of recovery from Propecia after having taken this poison for 7 years straight. From 2003 to 2010, and discovering why I have lost everything in 2012.
What have I lost?
My wife
My two kids
My large home on 2.26 acres in Poway CA
Everything I’ve worked for over the past 22 years
My Job
My career
My character
My reputation
My friends and family respect and love
My hope for any possible future to change what has happened
And my own confidence, trust or belief that I can do anything about it
I’m not giving up yet, but I’m seriously losing hope.
First of all : Really sorry to hear this. Really sorry…
Please be aware that you are not alone. I am 44, i was supposed to have a family by now and i have nothing. NOTHING.
Looking my life back and seeing what i have done right and what wrong all i can tell you is this. The single thing that i am proud for myself -and actually all of us here should be proud of- is that despite all the shit i’ve been through -from women, friends, doctors and even my own family who thought i was crazy- i never gave up. I have no idea where i found all the strength to keep researching, reading, noting until i get my life back. I guess the reason for this strength is the hope that one day i would get my life back. I am almost back to 100% for now. I do not know if this will last but i haven’t felt near-normal (as i do now) for as long as 6 years.
Add me on skype : mariovitali1, PM me to arrange a skype call and we will go through it together, step by step. In whichever way we may help, you have to keep in mind that you must make the commitment to work this through and keep hope.
Stay Strong.
Mario
from all the supplements i take, i honestly think Vitamin C makes the most difference, together with zinc, for my mood.
i was thinking of getting liposomal vit c, have you checked this out?
Yes Mario indeed. I always felt that Vit.C was affecting me positively all along. I was taking high doses (up to 4-5 grams a day) of Quest vitamin C.
I believe at some point it lost the effectiveness in my body, likely due to continuous usage of the same tablets (i got the 240 tabs version), or due to malabsorption which is a big issue among most of us here. I will definitely try liposomal next.