Methylation Block/Glutathione Depletion-Treatment Discussion

This thread is meant to be treatment driven compendium of the Methylation Block/Glutathione Depletion thread (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7178#p63090) where we are gathering data and discussing the ‘why’ and ‘how’ on Glutathione Depletion as a core etiology in PFS (read the thread for more context).

We’ve got enough lab data (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7178&start=260#p75912) and there are enough email and PM circles discussing treatments, so I am opening this thread for others to see what people are doing, what is working and what is not and exchange information on health care providers that may work in this area.

(Note that you can subscribe to this thread by clicking on ‘Subscribe topic’ in the top left corner).

I’ve been taking a vitamin supplement called “All in one” from this web site … sules.html

I’m also taking 400 mcg of methyl folate. I’ve been taking these every other day but hope to increase to every day soon. I got some pretty severe brain fog taking methyl b12. Has anyone else had this issue? The above vitamin supplement has a form of b12 called hydroxocobalamin which doesn’t give me brain fog. Been feeling somewhat better but after 7 years it’s really hard to say. Not much change in ED or libido…still bad.

I’ve experienced the same issue when taking methylb12. Headache and brain fog, I believe its because its forcing youre methylation cycle to run and your body isnt ready… could be low folate, p5p, etc… could be a million different things I think…

Count me in regarding methylcobalamin, actually any type of B12. What has really helped me was the addition of TrimethylGlycine (that made a real difference actually). My Data from 23andme regarding methylation are attached :

what if my b12 value is ok?

In Dr Konynenburg’s write up on treating CFS ( … nburg-ph-d)
he discusses methyl b12 and brain fog. He believes it is due to patients who have a high mercury load in their bodies.

Mario - How much TMG did you take? How often? Any side effects?

Interesting you said that because I just received my tmg and I’ve read that increases the effectiveness of methylb12.

Badluck, thanks for that reference. I wasn’t aware of that. It’s a lil scary.

B12 values don’t mean much of anything unless they are very high, which would be a bad thing.

Remember that according to the summary Chris Kresser gives of Rich Van Konynenburg’s work: You could have normal or high serum B12, but in an oxidative environment your B12 readily oxidizes and becomes worthless.

I would recommend listening to that podcast again (which is linked in the first post of theory thread).

I know that I had normal indirect indicators of B12. AnonXXX had high serum B12, and you can see our data.

I’ve been doing this b12/folate for a while now. I’ve been actually using less lately. Like 1mg of mb12 and either 400 or 800mcg of folate. I was taking 2mg of each at my highest level of dosing.

That is all I’m taking now. I don’t feel sore anymore so I dropped the fish oil.

I can function fine enough as is… but, still not normal in terms of penis sensitivity or ease in erections without touching. As well as delayed ejaculation …are my annoying persistent sides. Thankfully nothing major.

I’ve documented some of the protocols that people are passing around.

It may be good for some people to repost what they are taking. I think these protocols are largely hidden from those who haven’t been following these threads.

I take 1000 mg of TrimethylGlycine but now it seems that PhosphatidylSerine (PS) is even better regarding all of my neurological side effects. I just want to make sure about PS and i will post more on this, it may well be the case that i will ditch TMG for the sake of PS.

I remember saying to Droit how crappy i felt when i added TMG, B12, PS and Metafolin. I was getting really sick and now i believe i pinpointed the cause : Methyl & HydroxyB12 (i tried both)

I am more than certain that there is some neurodegeneration happening. MRI on my spine has shown nothing (which is good), OTOH there is something going on with nerve conduction ability which attenuates over time.

I was sleeping like a baby through the summer and in the past month i began slowly to lose my ability to have full 7-8 hour sleep. I then realized that this happened because i was not getting Vitamin D3. I started supplementing with D3 5000 IU daily and -what you know- i progressively started sleeping great again! (because of VDR Mutations?)

My Free Testosterone almost tripled and has stayed like that and TSH continues to be normal (Because of Forskolin)

To recap here is my current regimen :

Morning : Metafolin 800 mcg, TMG 1000 mg, Forskolin 100 mg
Afternoon : 200 mg PhosphatidylSerine, 5000 IU D, Metafolin 800 mcg

Thanks for the update Mario. I definitely know methyl b12 made me sick. I was taking methyl b12 and methyl folate and got the worst brain fog that lasted an entire week. Afterwards I took methyl folate by itself and didn’t get sick. Also took hydroxo b12 in a multi vitamin and felt ok. I’m surprised to hear you say that you may stop TMG since you said that was the one supplement that really made a difference. I am still going slow and don’t think I will add anything new to my very limited regimen now (all in one supplement and methyl folate).

What happened to NAC to increase Glutathione in all of this!
Is nobody using it anymore?

That didn’t last long as a theory

NAC was never endorsed by the theory thread. It was something Mariovitali picked up on.

The Methylation treatment groups on Phoenix Rising have always advocated against glutathione precursors. The majority of people feel worst. No one knows why but there are some posters (including Freddd), which suggest that glutathione precursors have an affinity for B12 and will detox it out. Thus blocking the cycle from running.

I personally subscribe to Dr. Van Konynenburg and Dr. Yasko’s idea of letting the cycle regulate glutathione production by stimulating it with B12 and Folate. Instead of supplementing glutathione directly.

Basically, TMG made me feel much better with my neurological side effects but did not stopped them completely. The same happened with NAC which actually made me a new person comparing to the fact i was feeling totally sick at the time. As droit suggested i also felt that it would be better to boost my methylation cycle as opposed to supplying with NAC to boost glutathione as there are so many other things involved during the methylation cycle (Taurine, SAMe, Creatine, etc)

Phospahtidylserine seemed to stop completely my neurological side effects but i cannot be sure at the moment whether this particular supplement did it. I also read that Phosphatidylserine helps HPTA axis so that is an added benefit. I will up the dose to 300 mg and ditch the TMG to see what happens although Methyl donors were always good for me (apart from methyl B12). It appears that my neurological side effects have to do with SAMe production and this is the reason why i felt much better with TMG. Since PS increases BHMT activity then perhaps there will be no need to use TMG at all.

We should keep in mind that finding a balance with all of this is not a simple task. Look what happened with my sleep : I totally forgot about supplementing with Vit D3 and i gradually ended up sleeping only for 5 hours each day (again). Would only Folate and TMG help me for Insomnia? Probably not.

I had so many side effects and it all went away slowly and steadily so there is definitely something going on with Methylation. OTOH, my Hypogonadism and Hypothyroidism that i experienced after quitting Propecia haven’t been fixed with Methylation but Forskolin did fix these two conditions.

what do you mean forskoline fixed your hypogonadism?

It means that my Free Testosterone levels have tripled (i had below normal levels, more specifically secondary hypogonadism) and also my TSH was lowered (Sublclinical Hypothyroidism). I had to inject HCG twice weekly to keep up my Free T and receive 62mcg of T4 daily to fix my subcl. Hypothyroidism

so what fixed your hypogondism forskoline or hcg?

Forskolin did (100 mg standardized / day). In about a month of use both my Free T and TSH went back to normal levels, so HCG and T4 supplementation was no longer necessary.