Maximum milk thistle

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#181

I was one of the ones who jumped on the experiment. Actually I am past week two into week three. So far I have not noticed anything radical with MMT. I did think intially I slept better with some more dreams than usual. Also, initially bowel movements were looser. But nothing to report on cognitive or sexual side of the house. I’ll not a few nights I missed supplementing and did not notice any downsides either.

So unlike others I don;t really seem to be affected one way or another with this. I actually find this with almost all supplements…odd. I will probably finish the one bottle (one month) but not reorder unless something changes

#182

The reason I believe it’s working for some and not others is that milk thistle is known to lower ferritin. Ferritin is very important for thyroid function. I got my ferritin tested and it was a 93. Which is actually low for a male. Milk thistle helps the liver but it also depletes iron ferritin. I think fin lowered our ferritin which is something that I know being known to have a good functioning thyroid.

#183

There hasn’t been an update to this thread since almost a month now. How is everyone doing? I would be grateful if users and ex-users could please comment on the following:

  1. Are you still on MMT?
  2. How long have you been on MMT?
  3. Did you notice an improvment in the beginning?
  4. If so, are you still noticing an improvment?
  5. Which areas have improved persistently?
  6. Did you notice a worsening of your condition? If so, which areas got worse?

In your responses, please cover:

  • Sexual sides (libido, premature ejaculation, erections, etc.)
  • Mental sides (cognitive, depression, sleep, etc.)
  • Physical sides (shrinkage, muscle, fat, tinnitus, increase/decrease in hair loss, etc.)

It would be important that we can keep such treatment threads updated, so we can get a better picture of what the outcomes of these “trials” are.

Thanks!

#184

No
Tried it for 1 week
Maybe a slight boost in mood
No
None
Yes, I believe I got worse coming off it. Got severe anxiety, depression, muscle twitches.

#185

@AWOR

I took MMT for about a month, 3 pills right before going to bed. At first, I noticed a nice bit of libido pop up, but that did not last. The improvements I felt the whole time I used it were in mood, and especially quality of sleep. Per your advice, I decided to stop using it.

Upon quitting, I became very depressed again, which has gotten a little bit better over the last month or so. Sexually, I am mostly back to the crummy state I was in before, although my ejaculate tends to have a bit more squirt to it for some reason. The thing that became awful after I quit was that my insomnia returned with a vengence. I think at one point I was awake for about four days straight, and even when I would finally pass out from exhaustion, the quality of sleep was awful. Per Maria’s advice, I began having a swig of some Apple Cider Vinegar and it has slowly helped my sleep a lot in comparison to where it was.

Anyways, I hope that answers your questions. I gave my remaining pills to my mom, who has fibromyalgia really bad, and it has helped her a lot, including sleep. As for me, it is one, done, and on to the next. Nystatin time. Whatever.

#186

Are you still on MMT? No.
How long have you been on MMT? One week.
Did you notice an improvment in the beginning? Possible reduction in brain fog. Nothing else.
If so, are you still noticing an improvment? Stopped taking it after estrogenic side effect.
Which areas have improved persistently? None
Did you notice a worsening of your condition? If so, which areas got worse? Nipple sensations.

#187

I’m no longer on MMT. In the beginning I had a 100% recovery across the board. Sexually, cognitively, physically, and in every way possible. Gradually little by little I started to feel less and less recovered and more and more in a PFS state. Finally after a while I decided it wasn’t helping me anymore so I came off it cold turkey. When I came off cold turkey, it kind of threw my body off for one weekend and I guess I would describe it as a crash. Then by the time monday rolled around things were back to normal. I would like to try it one more time and see if whatever change it makes to the liver when you first start it would stay with me permanently.

I do notice my appetite is better than it used to be and my mouth waters when I think about food, so I do think I did get a few permanent improvements

#188

any updates?

#189

Did someone tried this and it help him?
Does it help the liver?

#190

Its pretty common OTC stuff I have taken it for years off and on for general health. Yes its good for the liver. NO it did not fix any of my finasteride side effects.

#191

curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1231452
Side effects from milk thistle happen only rarely, but may include stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, headache, rash or other skin reactions, JOINT PAIN, impotence, and anaphylaxis (a life-threatening allergic reaction that causes throat tightness, shortness of breath, and, possibly, loss of consciousness.) The last two reactions listed are extremely rare.

Milk thistle should not be used by pregnant or breastfeeding women.

umm.edu/altmed/articles/milk-thistle-000266.htm

Side Effects and Safety Concerns

Side effects may include indigestion, headache and itching. Rarely, milk thistle may result in heartburn, gas, diarrhea, JOINT PAIN and sexual dysfunction.n.

#192

nice discussion about milk thistle that it can is bad for gyno
forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118584071&page=1
have a minor case of gyno and take milk thistle for general liver protectiion. I find that when i increase the dosage it causes my nips to be a little more puffy then usual. I currently just take a minimal dosage because of this. I also find that gingko biloba has a similar effect because of it’s estrogenic qualities. I have no studies to back this up or anything, but i did isolate these two supps as the culprit for this reaction. Im not saying they were at all responsible for the gyno itself, just that they seem to make it look worse then it actually is. Take it for what it’s worth i guess.

#193

This is interesting to me. How long were you 100% for?

Does MMT in any way have HDACi properties or anti-fungal properties?

#194

does anyoen have reason/suspisions as to why milk thistle caused a worsening of sympotoms?

#195

It didnt make me worse. It helped a bit initially, mainly mental, but as with everything related to this disease, nothing lasts forever. Anyways, point is, it did not cause a worsening of symptoms at all for me.

#196

It seems MT lowers the nuclear AR levels but it seems not in the cytoplasm. So, you’re lowering androgenic activity just by another means, which I know everyone here understands. Maybe the decrease of activity of nuclear AR levels effects other AR responsive genes?

#197

Hey boston, how’s it going!

Can you post a link to where you found this info?

I think I found the method of action for what you’re talking about.
Check it out: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21273068

This paper says silybin (a milk thistle phytochemical) inhibits the AR carrier protein HSP90 (preventing the AR complex from either binding T/DHT or crossing the nuclear membrane after binding?).

Here’s yet another good one from University of Rochester discussing steroid receptors and carrier proteins: http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/george-whipple-lab/documents/chang-papers/CV152.pdf

So, you would end up with a bunch of AR protein floating around in the cytoplasm, not being able to make it into the nucleus.
You would think this would almost always cause a worsening of hypersensitivity/over-expression since very little of the AR complex would be in the nucleus to bind its promoter region and slow down AR mRNA production a-la autoregulation.

It makes sense that decreased nuclear localization would definitely effect other AR target genes, but you would expect a worsening of symptoms if anything and there are quite a few guys who say they got much better temporarily while taking milk thistle.

It’s all so damned contradictory.

#198

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#199

Does anyone know of any online stores in Europe or the UK that sell Maximum milk thistle ?

#200

phosphatidylcholine supposedly increases 5AR activity?

but silybin decreases it? so silybin is what is causing the problem?

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