Kevin Mann promoting Fin on youtube

General Discussion Media & Awareness
#197

My perspective on this type of content, not just from Kevin Mann but also dermatologists, is our community, unfortunately, needs to accept that it will remain until we advance important research and our own awareness efforts. We are still in a position where these bad actors can completely dismiss our condition.

So where can we spend our energy instead?

1. Complete the patient survey. This is such a simple action and only takes 1-2 hours to complete. It helps build a complete symptom profile of our condition, which is extremely important for advancing research and clinical appreciation. Check this video for how to, if you haven’t already.
2. Participate in the upcoming video podcast, or if you prefer to remain anonymous, ask a family member. We need our content to drown out their content. Currently, our message can easily be dismissed. But by creating content like the video podcast that humanises our disease, these other voices start to become muted. It’s telling that our patient compilation series now has over 1.7k views, a 95.3% like vs dislike ratio, and importantly, no negative or troll comments. If anyone were to comment negatively, they would look like a complete dick and they know it. What is also heartening are the comments across our videos from people who were considering finasteride, who said they will now not take the drug. That’s another small victory. We already have six guests lined up, including two brave patients, family members, and a clinician, but reach out to me via PM if you are willing to speak publicly, as we will begin in April.
3. Ask a family member or loved one to contribute to our new Family Advocacy Group. Families and loved ones can be a chorus of helpful support for any disease community, particularly one which is as stigmatised as ours. They can help with advocacy, awareness and fundraising for important research. We’ve recently started one and had only one volunteer from the community outside the moderator group. We have four other volunteers already, but we need more! Imagine an army of Mums and Sisters amplifying our message and advancing our cause!
4. Think about an amount you could set aside for possible upcoming research. We have been working diligently over the past two years to identify the most suitable research, and researchers, to investigate our condition, and recently made a post about a study we’re hopeful will go ahead later this year.

All of these things are a great investment of time, and in my opinion, far better than trying to take down Kevin Mann.

Best,
Mitch

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#198

YouTube channel deleted.

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#199

How?? When did this happen? Such a good news.:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Maybe he crashed on Fin :grin:

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#200

He voluntarily shut the channel down. Seems that he likes to attack others but when it comes back to him, he runs away. He wrote a long explanation about it somewhere but I won’t link to him. It was basically a long, boring, pity party for himself. It had to do with his sleazy past that is coming out now that he became a minor internet celebrity. His incel followers are panicking over this but if he cared about them, he would never have shut the channel down.

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#201

I think I read somewhere that he was abused by his brother, started abusing stimulants in a dark period of his life, saying a bunch of toxic things on online forums as a troll, and then it seems like he took his pain out on the PFS community.

He’s gone now, which is a positive, and although it was unfair to him that he was dealt such a bad hand in life, it seems that is why he was more widely toxic. It’s a really slow process but as more time goes on, more and more unindoctrinated people in the medical community will become aware of this condition.

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#202

:violin:

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#203

Bump :innocent:

Reviving this thread bc ppl need to see what a characterless person Kevin Mann is and expose the lies and misinformation that he’s spreading…

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#207

Eh, nobody cares about Kevin Mann, we need to concern ourselves with bigger things than a troll with a YouTube channel.

Don’t waste your time. Nobody important is listening to him.

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#208

No serious medical or scientific professional care about what he has to say, but he has about 35k subscribers on YouTube and he’s spreading false and misleading information about the safety profile of the drug which is causing young men to make misinformed decisions that affect their health and a percent of them will be seriously harmed by following him.

Some people in this community don’t care or even want there to be more victims of finasteride, but I personally care and want to see the number of people who are defrauded about the harms of this drug go to zero.

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#209

Sure, my point is that you can’t win by arguing with him.

The Mark Twain quote is something like “Never argue with an idiot, they’ll drag you down to their level and win with experience” and I think there’s good reason to think that it’s appropriate here.

If you truly care about reducing the number of future victims, the right way to go about it is to make sure that this movement gets the traction it needs, either through increasing our reach through promotion and awareness or by increasing funding allowing for more people with the expertise we need to become involved.

Arguing with Kevin Mann and his followers isn’t going to do that. What it will do is open the door to him making more jokes at our expense, or labelling us as crazy, or saying that we’re jealous liars. There’s no chance to win that fight, I don’t think.

#210

This is very easy to counter if you know how to fight.

It’s highly unlikely Kevin Mann will be making any more PFS denial videos. He’s delisted at least one of them. He is making these strange “DHT is a trash hormone” videos, in which he sounds more like a schizophrenic rambling than an uneducated layman Gish galloping.

The mind boggles how anyone can take him seriously.

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#211

We are still in a position where these bad actors can completely dismiss our condition.

It’s very unfortunate the person assuming to be in a leadership position talks like this. Mew, for all his faults, would never say anything like this.

The fact is, PFS was picked up in the “scientific studies.” Merck simply threw out the data they didn’t want, then used misleading language to suggest all side effects “went away.”

This is very easy to point out and explain; there’s no reason to capitulate. It’s extremely disheartening when we see members of our community preferring to run away from a fight with their tails between their legs.

#212

He probably doesn’t engage with Kevin for the same reason he won’t engage with this comment - it’s pointless and doesn’t provide any strategic benefit. He’s a little busy coordinating with scientists, running a YouTube channel, and managing an organization that will eventually free us of this disease.

#213

Capitulating of PFS deniers, demoralizing members, splintering efforts, self-congratulating, and going in circles.

PFS Foundation is a far superior organization and funds should be directed to that non-profit.

To remain on topic, no one needs to surrender to Kevin Mann or any PFS denier. That science was, and always has been, on our side. If anyone needs help with the science, or combating any PFS denying talking points, let me know.

I linked a copy pasta upthread debunking common PFS denying talking points. I’ll link to it again.
Refer any PFS denier to this link rather than admitting it is okay for them to dismiss our condition.

#214

Yikes. Alright, man. I’d conduct a little more research on your end regarding this.

Feel free to argue with Kevin Mann. Not sure what tangible gains you’re expecting from that other than running in circles and maybe satisfying your ego, though. The PFS Network already addressed the corruption by Merck in a video, and they definitely have more important things to do than arguing with YouTubers at this point.

#215

As I’ve already stated, Kevin Mann will not be making any more PFS Denying YouTube videos and he has delisted one of them and has walked back several of his claims. I’ d conduct a little more research on your end regarding this.

Yikes, young people get their information from YouTubers. As pathetic as it is, it’s the truth. The stupid talking points can be, and has been, successfully countered with little effort. Capitulating to them is fucking stupid and a pussy move and no one should be dong it because one “has more important things to do.”

#216

Right… well, knock yourself out, man.

#217

I don’t think that’s true for everyone but yeah sadly a large portion swallow whatever their favorite YouTuber spits out.

But even getting information from “educated” sources like your doctor or pubmed won’t always give you the full truth…

#218

We’d love to have you come on the Moral Medicine youtube channel to share your experience with PFS. You can reach out to me or @Recovery18 to set it up

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#219

Fuck Kevin Mann, you can only meet him with science. But no reason to sink to his level and post shit. Love ya all stay strong.

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