Look, they’re really helping us.
They won’t stop selling finasteride, let’s be honest.
There will be many more sick guys in the world and it will be much harder to close your eyes to the problem.
So let’s let everyone in the world advertise finasteride.
Thank you for the kind words @Sibelio, they are appreciated.
Interestingly, a study you showcased in a recent thread, noting its manipulations and that it is still being used as a refutation of Post Finasteride Syndrome’s existence
is the same study that Hims are using on their page about Finasteride’s side effects, implying that the study somehow negates “flashy headlines circulating the internet”, stating
There’re some flashy headlines circulating the internet suggesting that taking finasteride will give you irreversible erectile dysfunction or kill your libido for good. While it is true that FDA issued a warning in 2012 that finasteride increases the risk of experiencing sexual side effects, including libido, ejaculation and orgasm disorders, those headlines don’t tell the full story.
This company is well aware of PFS and deliberately “strawmans” what might be the concerns of somebody thinking about taking Finasteride.
“Suggesting that taking Finasteride will give you irreversible erectile dysfunction or kill your libido for good”
is not something that we as a community of patients with PFS say; we say that it might do those things, and a lot, lot more, and that nobody can safely use the drug while the predisposition to the syndrome remains unknown.
“Flashy headlines”
Suggest to the reader “click bait” and therefore, dishonesty.
“Circulating the internet”
Suggests these are just stories told on the web, which is renowned for having a lot of BS and fake news presented as real news on it. Many of the PFS media stories aren’t just “circulating the internet”; they’re in mainstream print media in addition to an online article.
finasteride increases the risk of experiencing sexual side effects, including libido, ejaculation and orgasm disorders
Finasteride doesn’t “increase the risk of experiencing sexual side effects”, it is the risk. The way that’s phrased somehow subtly implies that Finasteride increases the chances of experiencing sexual dysfunction if it’s already there in somebody.
This straw manning can be seen elsewhere in their media. In their video titled " Ask hims: Can I have sex while taking finasteride?"
Google said I can’t have sex on Finasteride?
I’ve never seen anybody ask this question. This is a subversion of the very real warnings on sexual dysfunction that state what can happen as a result of using the drug. Even the Merck label now states that erectile dysfunction can persist in some men after the drug is withdrawn. It has nothing to do with “having sex while taking Finasteride”.
“Doctor Google MD is not always right and anything can write anything on Google”
Again, this is a crass attempt to dismiss legitimate medical literature that can be found online regarding Finasteride’s sexual side effects and straw manning it as “Doctor Google MD”. The intention is to reframe the consumer’s valid concerns on something they’ve read online about Fin as internet balderdash and baseless fuss.
Hims
Keeps
Roman
These online easy to get drug markets are proliferating. Wait til A-Rod gets PFS or JLo gets PSSD–then people will stand up and pay attention all over the nation!
I doubt any of them are using the products just advertising for profit
I’ve commented on hims videos before and they will block and delete they are very well aware about the dangers just denying it
Anyone know how HIMS and similar “pharmacies” can operate legally, while shipments from those supposed “unsafe” grey-market online pharmacies have been confiscated and their funding choked-out by VISA, Master Card, AmEX, PAYPAL, etc…?
This isn’t a rhetorical question. I really can’t see how any part of HIMS’ operation is legal.
That ad is ridiculous. The people in the ad aren’t on Finasteride and will never have a need for it. I don’t care if one of them is a doctor (Or maybe she is just playing one for the ad), I have no use for their opinions when they know they’ll never have to risk side effects from the medication.
The video has 2 thumbs up to 18 thumbs down on YouTube so many people aren’t buying their no sides claims.
Feel free to add your thumbs / comments here…
Just a note about adding the comments, if you guys are too aggressive and angry the comments will be deleted and ability to comment will likely be closed off. It is much more effective to inform and educate so people take you seriously. Otherwise you might come off as lacking credibility and that hurts all of us.
I’ve tried being nice on a few of there videos in the past doesn’t matter at all they don’t give a shit and I won’t either when I comment I’ll be aggressive to these pricks same goes for any goof doctors
The person who manages the YouTube page is just some marketing person that handles their social media and is very unlikely to know anything about PFS. Their job is to make the company look good and not think about whether the criticisms are fair.
Being nice is good, but it’s not enough. Try saying XYZ is not up to date based on the latest scientific studies and then paste the latest study by Khera or Traish. You could also say that customers should be aware that Merck’s warning label from 2002 was recently discovered to not fully be accurate and it should matter when making their decision as to whether they want to treat hair loss (then post Reuters).
Using a tone that allows the other person to make up their own mind is often more effective. Once you show them one of the studies/reports, they are very likely to see things our way, but weak-minded people are generally scared if they feel you are forcing a view on them.
HIMS and other companies employ legitimate licensed doctors who legally prescribe the drugs (most of them generic by the way). You don’t need to live in the same state as your HIMS doctor for him to treat (aka prescribe drugs to) you. You pay him/HIMS and voila!
Still, they’re aggressively marketing off-label uses of SSRIs. I thought that was illegal AF.
There are additional interesting angles to this story, some of which are perhaps covered in the links in the article.
Are these companies breaking the law when they advertise drugs online? I live in Canada and as far as I know drug ads here are illegal. Yet, I see plenty of ads for finasteride on Reddit and elsewhere from Essential Clinic, which is a Canadian online pharmacy.
Are these companies publishing the full FDA mandated drug information? Essential Clinic, about which I have written before, does not. Instead it publishes a drug information document which says nothing about persistent side effects.
Online hairloss clinic conceals Finasteride side-effects
Apparently, there have been recent changes to telemedicine laws which make a business model like Hims possible now when it couldn’t have been before
Hims’ basic business model also takes advantage of two relatively recent developments that have opened up huge opportunities in the world of direct-to-consumer healthcare. Changes in state telemedicine laws now allow customers across the U.S. to obtain prescription medicine without physically going to a doctor. Meanwhile, a handful of powerhouse drugs – Viagra, Rogaine, Propecia – are now available in cheap, generic form.
To add to the ridiculous and questionable business practices of HIMS, they published an article suggestive of porn-induced ED, a questionable medical diagnosis, without citing evidence that such a medical condition exists:
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The first piece of evidence they cite to support the existence of porn-induced ED makes no mention of erectile dysfunction or sexual dysfunction:
It is difficult to definitively say whether porn is good or bad, but it is definitely a question worth exploring. The first study conducted on porn users was conducted at the Max Planck Institute for Human Development in Berlin, Germany.
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The second piece of evidence; a broken link followed by a link to a product page on their storefront:
A more recent study involving 350 people with sexual compulsions, many of whom were compulsive pornography users, revealed a 26.7% correlation with sexual dysfunction. This study was meant to explore an increase in sexual addiction, but the fact remains that there is a positive correlation between porn usage and sexual dysfunction.
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Anything for a sale. Bravo HIMS.
They probably have so many young guys getting fucked over from Fin and other bullshit products they have that they had to show some pathetic study about porn induced ED
@Tzinkman, Phil (foundation pr) emailed to say the Mail on Sunday are covering this and want to speak to a patient. Given your excellent work here, it might be worth passing some of this along to the editor. He didn’t mail out the direct address, so if you have time give him a mail and he’ll put you in touch.
Anyone else who is a british man in their 30s affected by PFS and would be willing to talk to the Mail, please consider the following message Phil was sent:
“I’m keen to speak to British men suffering from PFS, to run within an article we are planning on the subject. Ideally, there would be a range of ages – I’m particularly interested in younger men, in their 30s, as the peg for this piece is the rise of new services, such as Hims, Keeps and Roman, offering men’s medication in fashionable packaging, advertised on social media. They do hair loss and ED drugs all sent in a lovely package that looks more like a grooming product. It’s all aimed at a younger audience. The piece is to run in the next few weeks so speaking to someone this week would be great. Ideally, they’d be willing to go on record and be photographed too, but we could also have a mixture of anonymous and on the record cases. I’m happy to let people see the article before it’s published.”
Email proberts@pfsfoundation.org
Best
