I also have alopecia losing 500 plus hairs a day.
TMJ
Carpel tunnel syndrome
trigger finger
arthralgia
myalgia
Neuropathy of lower limbs
I posted this elsewhere but I hope it helps those poor souls with very low estrogen syndrome:
"I’ve normal Testosterone level but very low E2. I think fixing the gut will raise E2 because I did so much research on factors that affect E2 level in the body. The factors are:
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Low Testosterone. This isn’t the case for many men and it wasn’t my case either.
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Aromatase enzyme deficiency. This could be genetic and also when using Aromatase Inhibitors. I did several AIs and some made my E2 literally ZERO and libido non-existent. But I returned to normal after sometime, fortunately.
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Low DHEA-s. This is my case (low DHEA-s) because taking 25mg DHEA for two weeks increased my E2 from 11 pg/ml to 28 pg/ml. Check DHEA-s level.
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Anti-estrogen supplements/foods. I made a full list of them. They include high dose zinc, fat soluble vitamins A D E K, green tea extracts, high olive oil consumption, melatonin, high B1 & B2 vitamins, etc.
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High fiber diet. Too much fiber binds to E2 in the gut and is excreted from the body with stools.
& MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR THAT I DISCOVERED…
- Low gut bacteria that recycles deactivated E2 back into blood stream. There’s a group of bacteria called Estrolbolome.
" The estrobolome is a collection of bacteria in the gut which is capable of metabolising and modulating the body’s circulating estrogen. It is the bacteria in the gut, and the estrobolome , that affects estrogen levels, which in turn can impact weight, libido and mood."
This bacteria make an enzyme called Beta-glucuronidase which deconjugates E2 in the gut. There are scientific citations (I can share them) stating that the most important memeber of this bacterial group is E. Coli (yep there’s a friendly E. Coli too). I suspect you have severe gut dysbiosis and thus very low Beta-glucuronidase activity.
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I think tribulus hurted me like butirrate hurted you.
I don’t know if tribulus is an AI
O think like you. I’ve read here to take tribulus, and cycle it. Cycling substances is the worst think to do.
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I cannot recall where I saw it.
If anyone attempts anything it may be wise to start with a very small dose. Carefully log the results of how you feel. Write it down in a notebook. It may all go badly wrong very quickly. An Italian doctor has already written about the negative impacts of supplements. I’m not a doctor.
If anyone can show me were it was noted that sodium butyrate was bad on this forum let me know. I just checked the androgen deprivation paper why have they taken out SB from the list of potential therapeutics and then replaced sodium butyrate as a 5alpha reductase inhibitor? It’s almost like they used my experienced to log down on the paper.
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I have Post Finasteride Syndrome and Post aromatase syndrome lad this is a death sentence. I have never been in so much pain in my life
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When you have PFS losing hair could be a good sign.
These were the only references to “butyrate” I could find in the post-Androgen Deprivation hypothesis paper:
[Concerning substances claimed to have a noteworthy positive or negative effect on this site]
These have included zinc, quercetin, resveratrol, milk thistle, licorice root, turmeric/curcumin, sulforaphane, DIM, sodium butyrate, saw palmetto, tribulus terrestris, polyphenol rich products such as cacao nibs or pomegranate, and soy and soy isoflavones including genistein, all of which are notably antiandrogenic through various mechanisms
Sodium butyrate, a histone deacyletase inhibitor capable of modulating AR expression (Paskova et al., 2013), showed improvement in motor deficits and histopathological impairment of neurons and muscle within an narrow optimum dose window in transgenic mice (Minamiyama, 2004).
…and it matches a draft of the paper I had from right before it was published on this site.
Hopefully no one is taking these observations as recommendations?
This is a long shot but try getting a GI Mapping (microbiome assay) from ubiome, vbiom, thryve, etc. I just had mine done and the results were truly eye opening with diet recommendations. There were both overgrowths and undergrowths that I didn’t know about. Fixing the gut with pre and pro biotics alone is like shooting a moving target in the dark.
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And, to emphasise this in case people get the wrong end of the stick, the quote
Sodium butyrate, a histone deacyletase inhibitor capable of modulating AR expression (Paskova et al., 2013), showed improvement in motor deficits and histopathological impairment of neurons and muscle within an narrow optimum dose window in transgenic mice (Minamiyama, 2004).
is in relation to a different disease, SBMA.
It’s stated that some patients have reported symptomatic relief (usually temporarily) or worsening from use of various substances but it shouldn’t be characterised as a list of potential therapeutics, more a list of what patients have tried when self-medicating. The full quote in context is here
Across the history of the propeciahelp forum, the most consequentially profound responses described entail significant modulation of symptoms by further exposure to substances that lower androgens through mechanisms including 5 alpha reductase inhibition, or substances that reduce concentrations of or inhibit AR. While rapid and severe worsening can occur, patients have equally often reported the dramatic return of function in the domains affected by PFS, usually temporarily. These are nearly always taken in the absence of the knowledge they are taking pharmaceuticals or natural extracts with antiandrogenic properties and are frequently sought out based upon their purported benefits in marketing and health editorials concerning relief of symptoms or through online reports from other patients. These have included zinc, quercetin, resveratrol, milk thistle, licorice root, turmeric/curcumin, sulforaphane, DIM, sodium butyrate, saw palmetto, tribulus terrestris, polyphenol rich products such as cacao nibs or pomegranate, and soy and soy isoflavones including genistein, all of which are notably antiandrogenic through various mechanisms
https://www.propeciahelp.com/ar-deregulation-as-a-key-pathological-driver-of-pfs/.
Additionally, the only change to the paper to date was the removal of a line pertaining to post-mortem examination
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you better not quit man i know its the hardest thing for you but please hold it together
Can I ask what brand you of butyrate you took?
I’m gonna try to eat butter (good source of butyrate) organic or grass feed, already salted or with salt I put on it (sodium) , on daily basis with progressive intake amount loading.
Si basicaly sodium butyrate but from foods.
I’ll keep you updated
Guys I tried sodium butyrate but I didn’t feel good on it so I stopped. It gave me loose stools. Dairy butter contains some butyrate. Low butyrate may not even be your problem. I thought mine was low but after getting tested for microbiome turned out I’ve over abundance of butyrate producing bacteria so getting more isn’t the best idea! Butyrate may be useful for those with too much lactate and low butyrate, not everyone.
OK so I took a lot of butter in a sandwich + salt (from chips and butter) yesterday, masturbation last night was nice, erection was way harder sometimes like it was before pfs.
U know, not diamond but not the “70%” max that quickly fades we usualy get after pfs.
And during the night (slept only 4 hours last night, can’t sleep again after I went to pee, another strange thing as I usually sleep 8-9 hours a night) I got a good erection that lasted some times when I got up to pee (usually its gone the time I sit on the bed, this time.
Today, i ate again butter in a sandwich + chips + croissants (made from butter If I remember well).
And guess what?
Tonight was the best erection I had since 10 months while masturbating.
I mean, It went up with some soft touches even before launching sexual content. When I touched it normally + vidéo it went 100% like pre fin.
No trouble maintening it for 10mn , even with no permanent constant stimulation. And when I ejaculated, my dick stayed hard (70-80%) for like 1 mn. Wtf??
Guys something is happening. This is the first time I have improvements in 10 months, not even one fuckin supplements made something for erection even once.
Not even arginine, citruline. And all this from butter?? Wtf.
4 days ago I took a very low dose tribulus (another brand but already took it early 2020, tribulus fruits too, did nothing good or bad. I took butter without knowing shit about Butyrate ect at the same time.
Got brain fog, fatigue and anxiety 2 jours later that lasted a few days. Got a good nocturnal erection too that night. I thought it was tribulus, but It must be buter as I didnt take anything again since 4 days
SAHA is the hdac inhibitor here?
so its saying SAHA would mess with hormones and affect us negatively?