- There is a thread on swolesource linking to this one.
- It warns new guys that they have to be careful about scams in general.
I wasnât able to find the thread you mentioned on Swolesource⌠would you mind copying the link over? By posting these warnings on PropeciaHelp, it feels like it just creates the perception that this forum is teeming with fraud when its really Swolesource that is the problem. This forum has made an effort to get rid of fraudsters and less credible people.
swolesource.com/forum/post-f ⌠ds-me.html
Notice that cdnuts never addresses my main arguments and instead erects straw men that he can easily knock down.
Thanks for posting the URL.
I think youâre better off addressing these points on that forum directly. Again, it doesnât seem like anybody on this forum
follows this guyâs advice and it creates the impression that Propecia Help has a fraudster here, which is untrue. Have you addressed these issues directly on that forum?
Generally speaking, if thereâs a situation where people are desperate to find a solution to a problem, there is an opportunity for a confident person who projects a sense of authority to gain followers. If theyâre really desperate, this âsolutionâ will give them comfort and by attacking their solution and leader you are going to make them angry and they will not be open minded to your message. Not all of the guys on there are suckers. For example, it seems like BizzBee may be one of the cautious experimenters who isnât totally convinced this protocol is âthe answerâ.
I suggest going there and directly asking straight forward, honest questions. You canât say 100% for sure this guy is a fraud, but there are a lot of red flags that he should be able to answer if heâs not a fraud. Why does he think he deserves money for curing people when heâs not a doctor? Shouldnât it be enough that he is doing a good deed and helping people restore their quality of life? Does it even make sense to get paid before people even get to try his protocol to even see if it works? Wouldnât it make sense to create a system of donations? Why does it require 21 supplements? Why does he have an avatar like that? Why does he speak so negatively about the PFS Foundation when theyâre trying to legitimize this condition and arenât receiving payments for offering their assistance? If he is a real PFS patient, he should be on the same team as the PFS Foundation and would like to see them succeed but heâs talking trash about them. Just a few thoughts to help out.
The other day I read an interesting quote that said winning and winning and argument are two very different things. It can be frustrating if you are completely outnumbered, but if your goal is to protect PFS from wasting time, money, energy, hope then focus on helping people discover the truth rather than on winning the argument.
Thanks for those thoughts Frustrated.
I believe this thread is highly relevant for propeciahelp.com because cdnuts has countless posts and a recovery story that can still be accessed via this forum. Also forum members have on numerous occasions invested trust and resources in either fraudsters or delusional gurus. In some cases this has resulted in suicides due to a worsening of the condition caused by the gurus reckless protocol. We as a community have wasted probably hundreds of thousands of dollars on people like cdnuts. Thus a thread exposing one of them as a fraud is not at all out of place.
I think you are wrong when you think that it decreases our credibility. I have already explained why this is not the case in my opinion, but I am happy to repeat it:
I think too little has been done by rational sufferers to discredit delusional gurus or frauds in this community. We have instead made the mistake of closing down the theories section, which is a brute force approach at trying to solve the issue. In my opinion it now can be said that it didnt solve it but instead splintered the community. In future I hope we can reengage with the homebrewers under the condition that they do not turn into delusional gurus or worse fraudsters.
I think we have exchanged our opinions on this topic now and I would respectfully ask you to PM me if you want to continue with this discussion as it is off topic.
Iâve stated my view on this and others are free to jump in and agree or disagree if they wish. Since CDNuts has not had a presence on this forum in almost a year, I think it overall just harms the vibe and perception of this forum to declare with virtual certainty that heâs a fraud when it doesnât even seem like anybody is following him here. I think youâre better off taking it up with him directly and it is questionable that you havenât done that yet.
I dont think it is your job to tell people what is appropriate to post and what is not. Especially not over and over again. Give it a rest. Without wanting to insult you, you do seem quite paranoid about the credibility of this forum. Which is odd, since you have no problem with delusional gurus and frauds sending people on a wild goose chase. At least I have never seen you actively call out these guys. And now I am, and here you are bitching and moaning about it. Get a grip dude. It is my assessment that the likelyhood that cdnuts is a fraud is extremely high (99.99%) if you look at the facts. You have made the redundant statement, that it is not 100%. Well in fraud cases it almost never is 100%. And yet there are many convictions based on 99.99%.
I find it ABSURD that you think that outing these fake gurus and frauds is not relevant for propeciahelp.com or this community. There have been so many wild goose chases caused by fake gurus on this forum, it is pathetic. You act like this is not a major problem which is false. Either you have been living under a rock since registering here or you are very naive.
I would love to have a discussion over at swolesource with cdnuts. Problem is that he already said that he is not interested in it. If cdnuts is willing to engage I have absolutely no problem doing so on his turf.
Also you have confirmed that you also believe that it is more likely than not that the guy is a fraud. You just differ on what probability it is, because you believe the absurd 21 herbs in combination with his claim that he can cure everyone can be explained away without resorting to the fraud label. That however is completely naive, since the guy is an affiliate of the shop you have to buy the herbs from.
His entire protocol is geared towards milking fellow sufferers.
And now pls stop going on and on about how its not 100% certain. I will continue to post even if there is a 0.001% chance that the guy is legitimate. No amount of complaining from your part, due to paranoid fears about credibility of the forum, will change this. Especially because I am in complete disagreement on how to protect the credibility of this community. So just stop spamming this thread with off topic concerns.
Frustrated, you just wrote the following in a private message you send me:
It is not possible to prove for 100% that someone is lying, since its always possible that he really believes it. I.e. that he is hallucinating or plain delusional.
But if we assess it realistically he IS lying and I HAVE shown it. Are you reading my posts at all? This is getting ridiculous.
- Cdnuts claims that the herbs from lostempireherbs.com will not work at all or within a couple of days, if you do not cycle 21 of them:
This is a lie. Nowhere on the lostempireherbs.com website does it say that the herbs will stop working within the first couple of days if you do not cycle 21 of them. That this is obvious nonsense is confirmed by their review section, where a PROFESSIONAL NATURAL BODYBUILDER recommends taking only 3 herbs:
- Cdnuts lies about being able to cure everyone. He has gotten enough negative feedback that he must know that this is false. He doesnt even try to prove it because he knows that its false.
Extremely misguided is calling cdnuts extremely misguided.
Why? Because everything he does is extremely cunning if you accept that he is a fraud:
- He tells people that he can cure everyone
- He recommends buying 21 different herbs for thousands of dollars. The reason he gives is a proven lie.
- He earns money through affiliate links, earning a hefty 30% lifetime commission.
If these 3 facts dont suggest fraud to you, you are either stupid or pushing an absurd agenda.
Reposting excerpts of private messages on this forum is another example of something you are doing to undermine the trust, integrity, and credibility of this community and frankly should be an offense that warrants a forum ban.
You still have not addressable my main concern. Why have you not directly addressed CDNuts on his forum? The fact you are posting on a separate and unrelated forum is suspicious itself.
I have addressed it. Read above. Here it is again:
I am sry if I offended you by quoting the above sentence. I wanted to address it but it was not my intention to share something that was not part of the public discourse (i think the quote I incerted is quite harmless and already part of the debate wouldnt you agree?). I quoted it to address the concern implied in your posts directly.
Also why is cdnuts not replying here: After all this is the main PFS forum where he spread his nonsense.
Absolutely not. It shows you canât be trusted and donât have the ability to think beyond the immediate consequences of what you say but you have already shown that.
You can go over to his forum and directly present questions to him. He may or may not respond. If he doesnât respond, fine that is more evidence in your favor. But to say you have not posted your questions on his forum because he already said he is not interested in discussing is a really lame excuse.
Funny how quickly you are comfortable to make an extremely negative judgement about me (âcant be trustedâ). This poisons the well forever, as anything I put forth can not be trusted under any circumstance. I find this accusation to be unfair and baseless.
Since cdnuts has been a long term member in this forum and has a longer history posting here than swolesource, this forum is equally appropriate though for him to address the accusations. I have created an swolesource thread in anyways.
Below is a link to the swolesource thread.
I suggest posing your questions to him upfront rather than giving him the chance to refuse to ignore or deflect. This would have been the responsible thing to do before calling him a fraud. Right now, the people are supporting him are getting upset/annoyed because no point has been made. If you ask fair, direct questions, keep your cool, and donât attack his character he will either have reasonable responses or he will appear obviously very shifty.
Given your lack of discretion via PM, I will communicate with you here.
I did not reveal anything that was not already part of the public discourse and have already apologized to you.
If cdnuts agrees I will ask him straightforward questions, its that simple.
All you do is whine whine whine. I guess you cant make some people happy. This conversation is over, since you are treating me in an unfair manner. Your username truly is fitting.
I have posted some questions for cdnuts in the swolesource thread that he should answer.
Here they are:
- How old where you when you started and when you discontinued propecia? Could you reveal the exact dates as well?
- Can you confirm publicly that you are an affiliate of lostempireherbs.com, earning a hefty 30% lifetime commission?
- Why did you fail to disclose prominently in your sticky threads that you are an affiliate of the company whose products you are pushing?
- Can you confirm that you are a professional salesman, selling not only supplements but also insurance products?
- Why are you recommending to cyle 21 herbs, when a professional natural bodybuilder cited in the review section of lostempireherbs.com recommends that people only buy 3? Is it true that lostempireherbs.com disagrees with your statement that their herbs wont work at all or not properly if you do not cycle 21 of them? Can you see how anyone looking at this will believe that the recommendation is aimed purely at increasing affiliate income and is thus fraudulent?
- Is it true that lostempireherbs.com has asked you to refrain from claiming that their herbs are part of a protocol that is a cure for PFS?
- Is it your position that the foundation should be shut down, since your protocol is the answer for the thousands of chronic sufferers worldwide (a recent thread by awor with only one post had 14.000 views) and since English has supposedly explained what PFS is?
I think you addressed this issue the right way on their message board. A few of those guys are very emotionally committed to to trying out that process and if it gives them some peace of mind, it isnât really too fair to take that away from them so long as they arenât hurting themselves or others.
For others who are looking into CDNuts for the first time, I think you did a good job of expressing why you are skeptical of his approach and they will hopefully think for themselves as to whether they want to spend their money with him.
Update: Cdnuts has banned me from swolesource.com. He also has ignored my legitimate questions. This cult apparently has to be protected from clashes with reality.
Remember: I have not disturbed their forum aside from posting the above questions in a separate thread.
lol just get Mew to delete his recovery post on this forum, it made him a celebrity, people probably read it here first and think itâs a sure fire way to getting better. Anyone who tries to profit off of PFS is a tool.
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Agreed. But remember: âSee these nutsâ is not only making money off of PFS victims, he is fraudulently making money of them to enrich himself as much as possible. He is committing fraud while making money.