Simple: He is making money through affiliate links via totalmaleoptimization.com. For every herb you click an affiliate link seperately. In all of his posts he references this website and wants PFS victims to read it.
Even though I dont know this for certain he probably also has some kind of relationship with lostempireherbs.com. Otherwise why is he recommending exclusively that site, even though you can buy this stuff for less at other sites?
And in the thread that references my âhit jobâ, he even admits that he would like this to be his full time job. Of course he doesnt say how much he earns and even if he would, you cant trust anything he says.
2) Why is it a fraud? Isnt it okay to earn money?
It wouldnt be a fraud if he genuinely believed in his protocol and products.
However it is certain that he knows that you dont need 21 herbs. Its an absurd number he cant possibly believe in.
He knows that he cant cure every PFS case like he claims (he cured almost no one).
He knows that he doesnt know what PFS is, despite claiming otherwise.
He knows that he never acknowledges the foundation because it would undercut his guru status.
He knows that he is engaging in high pressure selling tactics.
Without believing CDNuts is a fraud or not, it is important to consider the consequences of making such a bold claim without having hard evidence. It is going to cause controversy on the forum, make people upset, reduce any sense of optimism that people may have, and reduce the overall credibility of the forum. You may want to consider a lighter touch with your language.
That being said, there have been a lot of frauds associated with PFS because people who are desperate are easy prey for swindlers. I remember one website from many years ago hired a fake actor to pretend like he had cured PFS and would sell you the remedy for some money. There was also that surgeon in Greece that told everybody they needed to go see him for months of prostate massages. Itâs really pretty sad what people are capable of doing.
Without believing CDNuts is a fraud or not, it is important to consider the consequences of making such a bold claim without having hard evidence. It is going to cause controversy on the forum, make people upset, reduce any sense of optimism that people may have, and reduce the overall credibility of the forum. You may want to consider a lighter touch with your language.
That being said, there have been a lot of frauds associated with PFS because people who are desperate are easy prey for swindlers. I remember one website from many years ago hired a fake actor to pretend like he had cured PFS and would sell you the remedy for some money. There was also that surgeon in Greece that told everybody they needed to go see him for months of prostate massages. Itâs really pretty sad what people are capable of doing.
Cdnuts behaviour is fraudulent. I would bet my life savings on it. If anything, the credibility of the forum is reduced when we allow hucksters and fraudsters to take over the steering wheel.
You argument is kind of strange: I take away hope by alerting people of the extremely high probability (beyond reasonable doubt) that cdnuts is a scammer? What? Should we allow cdnuts to convince young new sufferers that they should pay thousands of dollars for 21 herbs and pro hormones? Really?
By posting an alarmist message, people will briefly read your article and think everything on Propecia Help is unreliable. I havenât followed this guyâs posts closely. As you mentioned he suggests like 20+ items as a treatment. Even if the entire combination worked, it makes it impossible to tell which parts worked and why.
But people outside PropeciaHelp sometimes come here to check out the forums and if they see that there are unsubstantiated claims of fraud they think the entire forum and community is bogus. It just makes everything look bad.
You may be completely right about this being a scam but just be aware of how it reflects on the whole community. Is anything that he is suggesting potentially dangerous?
If fraudsters are claiming they can cure PFS for everybody, as cdnuts does, and a significant part of the community invests their resources and time running after them, we look like complete fools.
The combination of claiming that you need â21 herbsâ as otherwise you will built up a resistance plus claiming that he can cure everyone while earning money through affiliate links, makes the fraud accusation very much substantiated. The 21 herbs claim is so absurd, that it can only be motivated by monetary considerations.
I think you are worrying about exactly the wrong thing. You should be worrying about frauds wasting precious resources of young adults, not about how uncovering fraud might look from the outside. Kind of silly to be honest.
Also pls look into it extensively, before accusing me of being alarmist. I think that is the least one can expect. This is no joke and a typical modus operandi of fraudsters.
If you are uninterested in looking into it properly dont accuse me of being alarmist. I have looked into it in depth. Also pls consider the typial modus operandi of these guys and the term âbeyond reasonable doubtâ.
Iâm just telling you how your posts seem from somebody who is quickly looking at the website, like somebody who is considering starting the drug. That stuff really matters and I want to do our best to make sure nobody gets conned into taking this crap again without realizing what theyâre risking.
CDNuts seems kind of loony but I havenât seen so many others blindly follow into taking his protocol. It is weird that he signed up in the middle of 2008 and was fully cured by January 2009. It is weird he refers to himself as some genius problem solving entrepreneur and that he has psychotic tendencies. He hasnât been on this forum in over a year so I donât see it being so important to randomly bring it up.
I wonât speak in relation to whether CDNuts is a fraud but just about medical fraud in general. As with many medical frauds the patient buys into an idea/fraud both financially and emotionally. They see this idea as a means to getting better and perhaps their best or only chance to getting better. A good fraudster will convince the patient that there is hope and that their ideas really do work. Once this emotional connection has been established then it protects the fraudster from any fall out. The patient finds over time that the idea wonât make them better but they are so emotionally bought in that they donât want to upset the fraudster and say anything negative about them or to others. They still believe that the fraudster is their only or best chance despite the protocol or idea not working. They prefer to blame themselves. They say I couldnât afford to continue the treatment so itâs my fault, they werenât fully committed or that they should have done the protocol for longer. They still really cling to the idea that the fraudster can in someway help them if not in the present then at some point in the future. With no other solution to their health problems they remain emotionally attached and donât call out the fraudster. This is how medical fraud continues to work on others because of this emotional connection and a persons desperation to get better. PFS is the perfect condition for medical fraud because there is no official medical treatment that someone can turn to if the fraud doesnât work.
Another rising medical fraud is the sale of Rick Simpson Oil which is happening through social media websites. As the oil is so specialized and difficult to source in placeâs where it is illegal people feel they have no other option but to buy from the fraudster. At ÂŁ3,000 for a 3 month treatment that could potentially save someones life, people are willing to take a chance. I really feel that there should be better protection on these PFS forums and that new members should be required to submit their social media account to admin for checking. For example a facebook account that an admin can access and see it belongs to a real person which includes a comments history of two years seems a reasonable request. Iâve joined other medical groups and this has been a requirement so I donât see why it canât be here. If there arenât enough admins to do this then the site should take on more moderators to perform a decent vetting procedure so we can better protect ourselves from fraudsters/shills. At the moment it is very easy for Merck to access these PFS groups and Iâve no doubt representatives of theirs have done so with ease and may continue to monitor our groups. There has been discussion on how to improve PFS websites and proper vetting should be conducted before an account is authorized.
When he first set up his site advertising that he would share the secrets of his cure for a price he posted it here with a link to his site. I posted that he was full of it trying to make a buck off pfs sufferers. He replied something negative back to me and mew said something also. Anyway you can find it if you search for his posts.
No you are telling me how YOU think my posts will seem to somebody reading this thread. Let me tell you something: Calling out a fraud trying to make a buck off of fellow sufferers is a decent thing to do no matter what you say. And despite you claiming otherwise preventing fraudsters from taking over this community with their quack cures increases our credibility. Anybody reading this will understand. The same cant be said of your posts sadly. They seem paranoid and illogical.
I think your intention is completely in the right place. I just think it is difficult to state with certainty that this guy is a fraud when you donât have proof. I agree with you that it seems suspicious when he posts referral links to buy these seemingly random supplements and proclaims to have the answer to PFS. But who knows? Maybe two or three did the trick and he took so much crap its impossible to say. He also hasnât posted on here in 9 months so I donât understand the timing of your post.
You can see what other people publicly say about our forum and they tend to say not very nice things. It really doesnât help to decisively declare this recovered guy is a complete fraud without being able to back it up. I wouldnât consider that paranoid or illogical. In my opinion, it would be better to state your view is that you think he is trying to get money from PFS patients by selling his supplements and you recommend people should be cautious when following him. Thatâs a statement I could get behind completely rather than sounding an alarm and creating more confusion.
You havent done your research then. He is posting in the swolesource thread daily. Also I can say that he is a fraud with a very, very high likelyhood because he recommends buying 21 herbs, despite knowing thats completely unnecessary. He is saying you need 21 herbs because otherwise they do not work due to the user building up a tolerance against them within days. This is obviously nonsense and his recommendation is purely motivated by monetary gain.
These herbs all come from the same company called lostempireherbs.com. Now they have a professional natural bodybuilder called Miguel
Morin that recommends buying only three.
Now if a professional natural bodybuilder only need 3, why would the average guy or a PFS victim need 21 like cdnuts claims? The reason is obvious: His recommendation and accompanying (nonsense) theory are purely motivated by monetary gain and are thus fraudulent.
Your claim that he might not know which one did the trick is thus not his reasoning and wouldnt be convincing in any case. AGAIN PLS DO YOUR DAMN RESEARCH BEFORE WRITING UP AN ABSURD DEFENSE. There are other factors like claiming that he knows how to cure PFS, claiming that he knows what PFS is, never mentioning the foundation and never acknowledging when his protocols fail.
Btw.: Its not that I think that he is trying to earn money by selling supplements. I KNOW THAT HE IS earning money by selling supplements through lucrative affiliate links.
To claim that he might not be a fraudster is actually MUCH more of a long shot than claiming that he IS a fraudster.
If you look at it objectively he is a fraud. This is not hyperbole. Pls look into it more before writing the stuff you write. Thanks. I write what I think is the truth, not what you think is appropriate. I dont care if you cant get behind a statement that has a 99.99% probability of being right.
And one last example (there are of course more) is the following. Bizzbee isnt reacting well to a few of the recommended herbs. So cdnuts wants him to buy all of the ones he isnt reacting badly to, which are 17:
Iâm not defending him, nor am I arguing that he is not a fraud (or that he is). Iâm just saying prevent your evidence and people will draw their own conclusions. Iâm looking to protect the credibility of the community and forum.
Your most compelling statement so far has been that he is recommending 21 different herbs and he is providing affiliate referral links to try and make money off people on here. I completely agree that seems shady. If he cared about other PFS patients, which he most certainly would if he were a PFS patient and not a sociopath, then he wouldnât try to sneak in some referral links. Thatâs all that needs to be said really. The avatar he uses on that other forum is totally creepy but that is beside the point.
Are there a lot of PFS guys trying out his crap on other forums? I havenât really seen it on PH. I wouldnât expect a scam that tells people to take 21 different supplements to possibly recover to be very effective. If there are guys on here going after that then maybe it just shows how bad things are for them.
Ok. Well maybe we have a different viewpoint on how to defend the credibility of this forum. I think the evidence I have presented here makes my statement on him being a fraud seem very reasonable. And how can I present evidence, if I dont also present a hypothesis that the evidence is supposed to prove?
I like to defend the credibility of this forum by outing fraudsters, that people run after because they are so desperate. It really makes us seem like cooks, if we buy into the most absurd claims and then (due to wishful thinking and rose tinted glass reporting) claim that we are improving. There is another reason why it is dangerous: The supposed messiahs have the tendency to isolate their followers by creating new forums. Thus it splits up our community into many different camps and forums. This leads to our community appearing a lot smaller then it is and thus decreasing our credibility.
Again: If we try to stay as rational as possible and if at least some in the community point out obvious frauds, we will seem more credible not less. I can tell you that anybody taking the time to read this thread and follow my links will gain trust in regards to this community. Why? Because everything I post here is well sourced and rational. Thus for a visitor it will suggest that the statements I make regarding my PFS symptoms are true as well.
If however the entire community is running after nuts like JQD, cdsnuts etc., not much of our credibility will be left.
Also I think if you consider all the points I am making, the likelyhood that cdnuts is a fraud reaches the category âbeyond reasonable doubtâ.
1) Cdsnuts wants you to buy 21 different herbs for no possible reason other than monetary ones.
2) He earns money by you clicking on affiliate links that direct you to lostempireherbs.com, where you are supposed to buy all of the herbs.
3) He has a website called totalmaleoptimization.com that sounds like the infomercial of a fraudster.
4) He claims he can cure every PFS case with his protocol, despite the foundation, others scientists, medical doctors and anecdotal evidence saying that there is no cure.
5) He claims that he knows what PfS is, despite renowned medical institutions still being in the dark.
6) He never acknowledges when his protocol fails, which it does in all or almost all severe PFS cases.
7) He never acknowledges the foundation.
8) He engages in high pressure selling tactics.
If you add this up, it would be irresponsible to not call him what he is: A fraud.
Anybody who thinks that a user called âsee these nutsâ who is trying to sell sufferers 21 herbs through lucrative affiliate links is the salvation, truly is NUTS. I am not sure if the sufferer falling for this fraud wants to see the nuts of cdsnuts, but his brain must be mush for sure.
[b][i][Size=4]New fully updated Summary (as of 12/19/2017): The likelyhood that Cdsnuts is a fraud reaches the category beyond reasonable doubt. Here is why.
Cdsnuts wants you to buy 21 different herbs for no possible reason other than a monetary one (i.e. to enrich himself). Even a genuine homebrewer wouldnt suggest 21 herbs. He would suggest 1, 2 at most 3.
He earns money by you clicking on lucrative affiliate links that direct you to lostempireherbs.com, where you are supposed to buy all of the herbs.
His website has been set up in a way that ensures that you click an affiliate link to lostempireherbs.comfor each herb separately.
He claims he can cure every PFS case with his protocol, despite the foundation, others scientists, medical doctors and anecdotal evidence saying that there is no cure.
He claims that he knows what PfS is, despite renowned medical institutions still being in the dark.
He never acknowledges when his protocol fails, which it does in all or almost all severe PFS cases.
He never acknowledges the foundation.
He engages in high pressure selling tactics.
The upfront costs of his protocol exceeds 1000 dollars.
[/i][/b][/size]
At his lostempireherbs.com, claiming that you need 21 of them, as otherwise they do not work due to the user building up a tolerance within days (which is of course absurd, emphasis mine):
The website cdnuts is referring to is of course totalmaleoptimization.com. Notice the high pressure selling tactics (âdo what you do and get what you getâ and âyou guys are your own worst enemiesâ).
Why are you posting this on Propecia Help where it doesnât seem anybody is actually taking his protocol seriously rather than on his forums?
Itâs clearly reckless and unethical to promise somebody that they will definitely recover so I agree that he sounds off but this doesnât seem like the best place to be saying it.
