Improvements on Anti-estrogens - Why?

General Discussion
#56

for 7 days I used 10mg of tamoxifen and increased my testicles(I felt a reduction in anxiety). Yesterday I used 0.25mg of arimidex and now my erection is now much stronger. vascularization of the penis increases gradually. Even after ejaculation the penis takes about 20 minutes to empty and return to soft.

This is a good sign that the body can function properly.

The big problem is to administer the correct dose of arimidex. It seems that there is a rebound effect and estradiol may return at full strength after a while.

maybe with Aromasin may take longer to increase estradiol.

quite frankly I’m afraid to use these anti aromatase drugs and worsen the situation. For me this is the only medicine that works. I’ll try again for the experience.

#57

seems to me that Arimidex works when my testicles are larger and producing more testosterone.

I think TRT + arimidex could be a good solution. Maintaining constant the amount of testosterone and trim estradiol excess.

The problem is I can not convince the doctor to prescribe TRT:

#58

I have been on TRT for many months this year. It increases T but even on small doses my siliva E was over range when my free T was just in range. So FREE T / FREE E were out of balance. I felt great at first. But always by a week in. Shit would get bad. Total loss of appetite. Feeling of bbloated full stomach. I am of T. I think right now my body is doing its best to produce hormones but my LH is low and free T is low because of too much FREE E2.

I will do a free E2 siliva test when on nothing to see what it says.

On another note. Having been off TRT for a month. This week things have been quite up and down. And I noticed this. I purchased a factory produced chicken, usually eat free range. The first day i was feel not too bad up untill diner when I ate the chicken. After that got some stomach pains and felt bad. I woke up in the middle of the night and felt like i was seriously dying. From the time I ate that chicken I got a super bloated stomach feeling basically like the food is just sitting there. This seems to be a High e2 sign for me. My digestion went bad. Like I had to wake up to take a dump at 5am. This is also a sign of my condition having to run to the toilet in the moorning. Anyway after about 24 hours got better. And then had some times were I felt really pretty good apart from libido.

I did not think much of it. Did not suspect the chicken caused this. Thought it was just a fluxuation. Today I go and eat the same chicken at lunch time. Before lunch I was doing ok. Then the rest of the day I totally lost my appetite got servere brainfog. I read this guy who posted on here named ‘no’ he discribes cripiling brainfog. Well I had that. And when my appetite disapears eveything else gets worse. I get depression, feel sad like im going to cry when I think of this whole situation and think about methods to kill myself. Maybe this was just a coincidence. But really these are all my high E2 symptoms.

I also get these on pregnenolone. I took it to try boost my low free cortisol. But found my blood cortisol was already very good. So I think it had nowhere to go apart from estrogen. It made me again think seriously of suicide and very bad thoughts and wanting to cry.

Compare this to all the times I have felt better by reducing my estrogens. I have total opposite effect. Hunger, very positive thinking. Energy etc.

So from what I can say. Estrogen makes me feel shit. All my symptoms get worse. Reducing estrogen makes all shit better but does not last.

So - The test would be for us to simply take some estrogen cream and see what happens. If all our symptoms get worse much like mine DO. We have some very important info on our condition.

Now there are some transgenders who take estrogen. And I saw one video on youtube where he says taking some kind of estrogen had no effect at all on him. Which is strange. My other friend who was on propecia swelled up with a big wrikely face but did not have any real other problems. So maybe we are more sensitive to estrogen.

Point is - Buy some natrual estrogen cream from iherb. Trial it out for a few days and see what happens. This could give use some real insights. I have some but have not used it yet. Need to wait till I am at a stable level and then see what happens.

#59

I have stopped eating chicken I hd the same feelings and always doubted about it. It is sad but chicken are given Estrogen, I learned after having bad sides.

#60

And did you have issues eating factory chicken before finasteride… Or SP whatever you took.

#61

i do have bloating stomach and low appetite when i’m using andractim.

vicentv,

you stopped using TRT a month ago. Used tamoxifen citrate for PCT?

you should be recovering testosterone production yet and that alone gives depression.

tried using testosterone cypionate (100mg per week) + arimidex?

stand firm that we will soon find a solution to our problem.

#62

Never.

#63

No problems eating factory chicken before fin. And still not sure of the link. But just noticed it.

I took no PCT I do not believe in those PCT drugs. I think they are dangerous. Yes low t gives depression.

I took other steroids that could not be converted to estrogens but still get that bloated stomach feeling. I am thinking it could be something like this. Our body regulates estrogen levels according to androgen levels. If you take powerful androgen like trenbolone you body may up regulate estrogen production even more. Not sure if this is true tho.

My morning wood has been not very present recently since I have been taking nothing. It always seems to increase on anti estrogens.

Someone needs to try some estrogen cream to see what will happen.

#64

@vincent

have you tried estrogen cream? that seems risky man

#65

for most of us sides got worse after stopping fin/SP when body started making DHT . Looks like body does not like DHT any md ore. The user aaa123 says he was fine never had sides just stopped and got all sides viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6834&p=59587#p59587

#66

Not yet. But I will because I think its very important to understand what will happen. I doubt a day or so on it will have any lasting effects. I suspect it will have very similar effects to the preg I took.

#67

vicentv,

how are you doing with aromasin? did you notice something better?

I’m sleeping better after aromasin. I think Aromasin killed some enzyme in the brain. I realized I had an increase of aggressiveness in a few days. it is amazing how anti-estrogen improves the sensitivity to androgens. the only problem is how to keep this effect constant.

do you know if anastrozole has something to do with anti-fungal drugs such as fluconazole and itraconazole?

#68

Yes after I quit T, I took aromasin appetite went up and then agression went up with it but that did not seem to last so I stopped it now.

Have not taken anything for a few weeks and lost about 3 kilos and never hungry.

#69

What explains high appetite? but no weight gain.

#70

Take this for what it is worth. But I find it strange that an estrogen can increase LH in women. I have also read that estriol can be used instead of nolvadex for breast cancer. So these things might suggest a blocking action of estradiol.

When I took PREG or DHEA things got worse. Withing hours of taking PREG I would get depression sad emotion and suicidal thoughts. And the DHEA made twitches WAY worse. I figured that these problems were related to
excess conversion to estradiol.

So then I tried a estrogen cream with 8 times as much estriol as estradiol. I only tried it once. But felt fine. Not depression, nothing bad like when I took the preg. This had me stumped. Maybe bad absorbtion or too low a dose. I did not take it again since then.

But I purchased estriol cream. I put it on 20 minutes ago. Hard to say what will happen.

Estriol administration modulates luteinizing hormone secretion in women with functional hypothalamic amenorrhea

Posted by carlaasrm on Thursday, May 31, 2012 · Leave a Comment
Capsule:
Estriol administration modulates the hypothalamuspituitary unit and promotes the recovery of luteinizing hormone synthesis and secretion in functional hypothalamic amenorrhea.
Authors:
Alessandro D. Genazzani, M.D., Ph.D., Blazej Meczekalski, M.D., Agnieszka Podfigurna-Stopa, M.D., Susanna Santagni, M.D., Erica Rattighieri, M.D., Federica Ricchieri, M.D., Elisa Chierchia, M.D., Tommaso Simoncini, M.D., Ph.D.
Volume 97, Issue 2 , Pages 483-488, February 2012
Objective:
To evaluate the influence of estriol administration on the hypothalamus-pituitary function and gonadotropins secretion in patients affected by functional hypothalamic amenorrhea (FHA).
Design:
Controlled clinical study.
Setting:
Patients with FHA in a clinical research environment.
Patient(s):
Twelve hypogonadotropic patients affected by FHA.
Intervention(s):
Pulsatility study of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), and a gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) test (10 μg in bolus) at baseline condition and after 8 weeks of therapy with 2 mg/day of estriol.
Main Outcome Measure(s):
Measurements of plasma LH, FSH, estradiol (E2), androstenedione (A), 17α-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP), cortisol, androstenedione (A), testosterone (T), thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), free triiodothyronine (fT3), free thyroxine (fT4), and insulin, and pulse detection.
Result(s):
After treatment, the FHA patients showed a statistically significant increase of LH plasma levels (from 0.7 ± 0.1 mIU/mL to 3.5 ± 0.3 mIU/mL) and a statistically significant increase of LH pulse amplitude with no changes in LH pulse frequency. In addition, the LH response to the GnRH bolus was a statistically significant increase.
Conclusion(s):
Estriol administration induced the increase of LH plasma levels in FHA and improved GnRH-induced LH secretion. These findings suggest that estriol administration modulates the neuroendocrine control of the hypothalamus-pituitary unit and induces the recovery of LH synthesis and secretion in hypogonadotropic patients with FHA.

#71

Why wouldn’t you just inject HCG instead?

#72

Because HCG is forcing the body to produce more hormones when it does not want to. This may have some blocking action on estradiol that causes the body to feel there is not enough hormones and increase LH.

#73

Yeah, you would think after a couple of years though your body would sort it’s self out. Give it shot , look forward to hearing how it goes. But if your feedback loop is screwed. I can’t see your LH increasing naturally by bumping hormones up.

#74

I have been a fan of HCG in the past but after reading many posts I don’t support it. Many males men complain of Estrogen increase after HCG injections. I also read it desensitize your leydig cells to LH.

#75

HCG is my next move. It will increase your estrogen because LH —> Testosterone —> Estrogen. (basically). I’m sure like anything if you abuse it, it will cause damage. I don’t see if you do clinical doses and not suceed over 5000ui, it will not desensitize you. I’m sure the same thing would happen if your body was over producing GNRH.
I Think HCG is the best way if you want to try and naturally recover your hormonal system if your feedback loop is screwed. I’m not a doctor, this is just my thoughts on it.