I don’t know if people saw this already, or even if the information is true, but I found a post by an employee of Primordial Performance showing blood tests for DHT / 3-a-diol-g after someone started taking Androhard.
The numbers are as follows…
DHT with Reference Range (25-75)
3a Androstanediol-G with Reference Range (260-1500)
So, if these numbers are true (and I would really love for anyone taking this stuff to get similar before / during / after blood tests), then for SURE we would know if a lack of DHT / 3a-diol-g is responsible for our woes, since this stuff really seems to kick it up, and you would feel the effect immediately.
Combined with proper lifestyle choices, from those supra-physiological concentrations it certainly make sense as to how it could manipulate enzyme production in our favor. BUT…and this is a big but…it is a PRO hormone, so their needs to be a lot of enzymes to do the transfer. It’s not the same as just slamming DHT. This conversion aspect seems to be very important for enzyme up regulation, which, is obviously what had happened to me over the course of my usage.
But I’ll say this again…It is not going to work as well if you don’t have your system streamlined for healing. You NEED to be doing everything else right too. This simply illicits a healthier, stronger response from your system. This is key.
When I was on Clomid the values were even higher.
DHT is not the underlying problem in PFS
If you have low DHT this is a symptom but not the cause of PFS
Did you just stop taking Propecia recently? When I first stopped I experienced a huge crash, sexual sides, testicular shrinkage, etc… I got tested by the endocrinologist and my T levels were over a 1000. He told me I was normal and led me on my way. A few years later I got tested again and it was down below 200, clearly not normal for a 27 year old. I believe initially your body’s receptors become insensitive or resistant to hormonal stimulus. Perhaps it is a sensitivity issue in the beginning and then it becomes a problem with both hormone levels and sensitivity. I have no idea. I’m closing in on 70% recovery. I actually get libido boosts while in the gym now when doing compound exercises like deadlifts, reminiscent of when I was normal. A year and a half ago if I did deadlifts I would feel horrible for a few days afterwards. This program works. I can vouch for it (I haven’t taken any prohormones or T-boosters, at least not yet).
Great to hear you are experiencing an increase in ability to do exercise, yesterday I did squats it has made me feel so tired. Are you seeing improvements in erectile quality? I’m worried this might never improve for me.
No I did it at home, but in Germany there is a well known fasting center which is lead by the son of Otto Buchinger (the inventor of Buchinger-Fasten which basically is water fasting). If I wanted to do my fast under medical supervision, I would do it there.
I think you worry too much. Try giving this program a year or two (you can’t cheat otherwise it totally will not work) and see what happens. When I first started almost two years ago I also doubted whether I could ever be normal again.
The time is approaching for me to head out to TrueNorth for the fast, and I just have a few queries regarding the experience so I know what to expect from a PFS sufferers perspective, if you could answer these when you get a second I’d be hugely greatful…
Firstly, how did you find the process in terms of symptoms? When you were actually undertaking the fast did any traces of libido/nocturnal erections totally disappear etc? I Just want to get my head around what to expect when out there so any deterioration doesn’t worry me. Also, if your symptoms did worsen after the fast, how long were they bad for upon your re-introduction to feeding and how long was it before you got back to where you were/felt benefit?
I’m eating the diet as you described it, all organic meats (except for turkey as I struggle to find that anywhere organic in the UK) and no gluten, no dairy, etc. with carb backloading using sweet potatos and rice. How did you phase yourself back into eating normally when you got back from the fast? Was it a struggle to get down the quantities you were used to, as i’m currently eating 5 meals a day?
I have the two bottles of AndroHard as I mentioned, with the third one I bought turning out to be a dud. You mentioned previously taking 4 caps or 3 caps daily as opposed to the 6 in order to extend the cycle longer. I’m just wondering why you believe it best to extend the cycle as opposed to breaking it into two cycles? Is it that one longer cycle would be better at regenerating the enzymes? FYI I have 2 lots of the Wicked Supplements PCT stack ready to go also, just want to make sure I maximise the potential of the AndroHard as it is finite.
I’ve been using that paleo protein but as you say its expensive, just wondering what protein powder you used? I was unsure about your standard whey protein because of all the additives for taste? Also, the nutritionist I saw recommended I take creatine and BCAA’s pre-workout, do you see a problem with this, wasn’t sure whether it’d hurt?
Lastly, again I want to try and maximise everything I do, once I get back from the fast I will give it a month/6 weeks in order to recover as much strength etc before getting on the supplement wagon, but just wondering what you would recommend I do first and if you see any benefit of doing the test boosting supplement cycle/testicle painting for a period first or whether I should jump straight onto the Androhard? Also, given that I have 2 PCT’s, if you think its best I do the one cycle of Androhard would there be any merit in using one of the two PCT’s first?
Your help and advice is appreciated as always bro, thank you so much for sharing all this information!
Are they following the exact protocol outlined in this thread? I would tend to doubt it. But who knows what they are actually doing and what they are saying or claiming on forums. I can only speak for myself when I say that for me there is abundant evidence of the worth of this program, but it takes iron-like discipline and quite frankly a lot of the PFS sufferers that I see here on this forum don’t have the will power or discipline to see this through and will probably be stuck in this state for the rest of their lives, unless of course they make the necessary changes.
I am following this protocol exactly if you consider the t-boosters and prohormones as optional, not obligatory. My interpretation was that they were indeed only optional and not necessary for full recovery. This is why I’ve also been wondering whether this is really the case or not and I have not really had much feedback as nobody really seems to know at this point.
I was also wondering this too. I just got done with my 14 day fast recently and am ready to get started on the Workout/PH regimen. Should I do a PCT to start, then jump in to androhard to boost T levels back up before taking a PH or should I jump straight in to taking Androhard since my body will be more susceptible to making hormonal changes after the long fast?
You’ll want to combine AH with weightlifting, so you’ll want to wait for a period before you resume substantial physical activity (your call; the longer the fast, the longer the recovery period). At the same time, don’t wait too long, your body is fresh and hormonally sensitive. In the meantime, since this is your first cycle of the protocol, you should reintroduce cholesterol from healthy sources slowly. You don’t need large portions of protein yet. Stick to fatty fish (wild, north atlantic if you can) and vetted, grass-fed beef/bison. Ghee (clarified butter—essentially butterfat) is excellent to start with, it’s great for the gut as well as rebuilding fat stores.
Before you start running AH, you’ll want to have your PCT in your possession. Violation of this principle is a big no-no amongst weightlifters (you can wait, of course, but this ethic doesn’t exist for no reason). A lot of guys have success with a clone of Primordial Performance’s Testosterone Recovery Stack: http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/ultimate-testosterone-recovery-stack-primordial-performance
Here, your options are at least threefold:
Source the discontinued Primordial Performance products (good luck).
Barlowe’s, which has a variety of T-boosters as well as a Sustain-Alpha/Res100 clone (not a complete PCT): http://barlowesherbalelixirs.com/index.php?id_product=72&controller=product
If you want to go with Barlowe’s, I’d get a Palm fruit-derived vitamin E-complex (Toco8 replacement), some Phosphatidylserine+Alpha GPC, and a tub of D-Aspartic Acid (this stuff accumulates in your body along with the E-complex and Phospholipids).
You’ll really want the D-Aspartic Acid anyway. Consumption of Olive and Coconut oils has similar effects (these enhance conversion of cholesterol into testosterone). Consider using both oils fairly liberally in your diet. An affinity for chewing lots of raw vegetables would be likewise advisable.
Vitamin D is cheap. Get a year’s supply at 10,000iu/day. Iodine-rich seaweed (north atlantic is good) helps the thyroid and can inhibit estrogen overloads. Vit D does this too, to an extent. Vitamin K goes well with Vit D. If your diet is inadequate, consider a clean and bioavailable mineral supplement. No rock calcium, get Hydroxyapatite or algae-based. You’ll want to take care of your Homocysteine cycle too (B-vitamin with authentic folate, not folic acid). Work on your B-12 levels first. And hey, why not purchase a bottle of Cod Liver Oil while you’re at it.
Keep in mind that, optimally, these nutrients should come from your diet. With that in mind, you did just fast for two weeks.
As far as when you begin working out, you’ll want to have your routine planned out ahead. Mark Rippetoe’s “Starting Strength” protocol is pretty famous. Check it out. A Paleo-type diet is preferable, but don’t be afraid of a good grass-fed whey isolate powder with some BCAAs and L-Glutamine for post workout use. If you aren’t getting enough Taurine from your diet, or perhaps you just want more, add it. You’ll want to maximize muscular insulin sensitivity, so no carbs pre-workout or on non-weightlifting days. The better your body is at using fat stores/converting it to glycogen, the better.
Don’t forget High Intensity Interval Training! This is great for Growth Hormone secretion! Don’t overdo it at first, but don’t be afraid to kick your own ass!
Meditation. I may touch on this later, but…Meditation. Ditto, ditto. Also, I forgot to write about testicle painting, but this is good as well. Transdermal administration of anything good straight onto your sack is wonderful. If you do it right, it should sting and your skin should eventually peel a bit (whatever it takes, eh?).
Stay sober. You really shouldn’t limit this to alcohol. Refrain from PMO (porn, masturbation, orgasm) as well. Once you start running AH, you’re going to naturally reduce estrogenic activity and displace estrogen from progesterone receptors. Breaking these forms of abstinence can disrupt this process.
Take your time, plan things out, don’t stress, and have faith in yourself. You can do this!
What is with all you guys “starting” with PCT?? Where in the hell did you get this idea from? PCT = Post Cycle Therapy. It’s to be used after a pro-hormone or steroid cycle.
TDD…don’t take this the wrong way, as I’m not trying to be an ass, but this post makes absolutely no sense. I’m wary of you using any type of pro-hormone after a post like this.
If you’ve just fasted…and I mean really fasted…Wait…What did your “fast” consist of and where did you go?
Can you describe your workout schedule? Are you running sprints? I think most people see the supplements as being key to success, if you are not using any, may be time and hard work have cured you?
