I think PFS is an autoimmune disorder

#1

First of all, I am not a doctor or a researcher. Everything I say in this post is solely based on my experience in 4.5 years of my battle with PFS. You can take it or drop it. Your decision and your responsibility.
Second, I am not going to get into any argument over any of this with anybody. Don’t come back attacking me and expecting me to respond.

I have two goals by writing this post:
1- Get everybody’s attention to my findings and prevent people of doing more harm to their bodies, specially for newbies.
2- Ask people who have the same opinion as me to share their findings and their knowledge. I have learned a lot from others on this site. I would like to learn more and share some of my findings with others.

After all these 4.5 years and experimenting a lot of things and observing the results, I have come to the conclusion that PFS is an Autoimmune (AI) disorder. IMO, anything you take to change your hormones in one or another direction can cause AI reaction. Specially, when this change is an abrupt change like when you go on or off fin (the first and the last pill that you take).

A lot of side effects are related to AI response. Think about what happens when you get a flu. Your AI reacts to the virus. You experience all kind of problems. Headache, body ache, fever, bad sleep, nightmares, fatigue, low energy, low libido, digestion problems … You even lose some weight, lose some muscle and your face and jaws look skinnier, you look pale, …. . sound familiar? When the virus is gone, everything reverses and you go back to your normal. Because your AI system calms down.

Now, when you take fin your DHT decreases and your testosterone (T) increases. For some reason (I don’t know why), your AI sees this event as an attack by an outsider and starts attacking your hormones and the organs that produce those hormones like testicles. When you go off Fin, your DHT increases and perhaps your T decrease. The same thing happens. Your AI attacks your hormones and organs to reverse the change. This AI reaction causes a lot of problems that we experience. Please note, I am not saying all the problems, but I believe most of the problems. Unlike the case of flu, the hormones are always there and AI system gets into a constant fight with your body and stays hyper active all the time. So you do not recover even long after you stopped taking the drug. Specially, if you keep trying to reverse the AI action by taking medicines that manipulate hormones.

Ok, what is the solution, you ask. Answer: “YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN YOUR AUTOIMMUNE SYSTEM”.

This is a simple sentence but very complicated and challenging to implement. AI system and treating its disorders are very complicated. But there are practical steps you can take to get this beast under control.

1- First and most important thing, do not try to fight your AI system by taking pharmaceutical or natural medicines that manipulate your hormones. This is for everyone on this site. “STOP MANIPULATING YOUR HORMONES”. Do not try to reverse what AI is doing. Any attempt to reverse AI effects, result in sever reaction by AI system and makes matters much worse. I know a lot of people on this site try to increase T or decrease estrogen by taking drugs or natural supplements. That makes everything much worse. You all know that and have experienced it but keep trying new medicines thinking the outcome is going to be different. The outcome is the same, getting worse. You should stop all those medicines immediately IMO.

2- Start working with a naturopathic doctor (ND) or nutritionist to fix your gut problems and find a working diet for you. Many PFSers develop what is called Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO). Bacteria grow in small intestine (SI) where it is not supposed to. The certain reason for SIBO is not known yet. But one theory is that AI system attacks nerves in SI that are responsible for Migrating Motor Complex (MMC). MMC pushes bacteria and unabsorbed food to large intestine where it is processed more and finally rejected from the body. If MMC is disturbed, bacteria grow in SI where they are not supposed to. This results in malabsorption. That’s why all of us develop vitamins deficiencies and weakness. Beside malabsorption and deficiencies, bacteria’s presence in SI provokes AI reaction even further, which causes more damage to SI nerves, and this cycle repeats. A “vicious cycle”.

3- Start removing everything and anything that causes AI reaction. Some of these things are well known and some are specific to you. You need to find the specific ones and remove them as well. Search the web for the well known ones like chemicals and hormones in your food and environment, gluten, some foods and vegetables like nightshade vegetables, spices, diary, etc. Eat organic. Avoid junk food and sugar. Avoid chemicals and colognes as much as possible. …

4- Avoid stress, calm down, meditate, take it easy, just relax. I know it is hard but just try to relax and be positive. Do whatever it takes to avoid stress.

5- Go holistic. First of all most of MDs do not recognize PFS as a condition. Second they treat it with manipulating your hormones which is the worst mistake that people make on this website.

6- Do mild exercise and never over do it. Do you do heavy exercise when you got a flu or an infection? This is similar situation. Do not burn out yourself. Your body is already under stress because of AI reaction. Mild exercise is of course good and necessary in your recovery.

7- Until you get your gut problems fixed, take a high quality multi vitamin. Take vitamin D in particular.

At the end, this is my call to everyone who thinks PFS is an AI disorder. I want to dedicate this thread to this subject. Please share your knowledge and findings here. Do you know how to calm down the AI system? Have you tried any of those? Do you know any resources that I can use regarding this subject? We can get fix this together.

And to those who think there is no hope and all is lost. There is hope. You get better. It takes time and work. Just think about what I said above and start your own research on this subject. You will see results.

1 Like
#2

I like this post, a holistic approach is of course the scorn of some members on this forum (you know who you are). But I believe it is vital to an eventual recovery for those with really bad cases of PFS. Although with respect to natural t-boosters, I have had mixed to good results from using these when properly cycled. Proper cycling for those with our particular problem is not what is recommended on the label (i.e. 5 days on 2 days off for several weeks), it’s more like just one pill of each kind per week or two. It has to be a very gentle nudge in the right direction. I had reached about 75-80% recovery this past summer and fall only to start becoming lax with food and sleep schedule yet again (especially during the holiday season, you know how that goes) as I had a year prior and lo and behold, I started to regress although slower this time. I started drinking occasionally again as well, all of this eventually caused a loss of morning arousals, body fat accumulation, and seriously started messing with the quality of sleep. There is no denying that this also happens for normal men, but for PFS it happens much faster and more intensely. You absolutely have to keep this up until you are 100%, no exceptions, and then some 6 months to a year after you are 100% as a recovered member noted in his blog. This has been hard for me to accept until now. But it is definitely doable. Wheat (gluten), dairy, and sugar are bad bad news. Just meat and vegetables with some bit of fruit now and then (preferably almost none) has given me the best results. The week after Brongfogboy wrote his post about recovery, I followed the no fruit diet and had the best results I’ve ever had thus far, but of course it didn’t last as I went back to eating fruit. It’s very hard to do what Chi and others like him have done for sure. Need to have some real discipline.

1 Like
#3

Its autoimmune for sure. And its so persistent because hormomes are always there

I recovered from pfs for a week after taking a very potent immune system supressant (MDMA)

Also ive talked to 20+ pfs guys that developed pfs when they had a virus. So many pfs guys report feeling better with sleep deprivation or the flu (immune system supressed)

Most people with autoimmune disease have it for life. Only 5% of people have what it takes to reverse MS, RA, lupos and other AI diseases. This is why we only see people with CDNUTS attitude recover. Its extremely hard to reverse autoimmune disease and sometimes impossible.

Potential Treatments would be
-frequent water fasts
-autoimmune paleo diet
-Ux exposure and correct circadian ryhtm
-meditation / social activities
-fecal transplants (lots of potential here these have reversed MS)
-Chemotherapy + stem cells (complete immune reboot)

[i]Multiple sclerosis

An infectious cause of multiple sclerosis (MS) has been speculated, though the potential for gastrointestinal pathogens to exert neurological effects remotely (as seen with many Clostridium species) has not been considered likely. In 2011, Borody et al.[38] reported three wheelchair-bound patients with MS treated with FMT for constipation. Bowel symptoms resolved following FMT; however, in all cases, there was also a progressive and dramatic improvement in neurological symptoms, with all three patients regaining the ability to walk unassisted. Two of the patients with prior indwelling urinary catheters experienced restoration of urinary function. In one patient of the three, follow-up MRI 15 years after FMT showed a halting of disease progression and ‘no evidence of [/i]

The pfs studies should be testing for hormome antibiodies

Maybe if we could find a way to make DHT 0 then slowly introduce it again.

Ive also developed something similar to PFS except i got it from anti estrogens and it seems i possibly have antibiodies to estrogen now. This makes me think its aautoimmune and my genetics must be perfect for hormome antibiodies

#4

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclona … dy_therapy

#5

If this thread gets shutdown

solvepfs.com/viewtopic.php?f … 707#p16707

autoimmune pfs research here

#6

As I said before, I like this post but this cannot be AutoImmune disorder. If your body attacked your own hormones you would be in serious trouble. Quite frankly, it sounds absurd. Some of you sound crazy as a matter of fact.

#7

And since when are you the authority on what PFS is an isn’t?

Noone knows for sure. GTFO of this thread

back to topic

OP read this newscientist.com/article/dn … -syndrome/

#8

I became much worse after a vaccination

#9

We’ll leave the authority on PFS all to you since you know so much you crazy kook. You don’t know shit. Autoimmunity is usually against some sort of tissue or organ and must follow Witebsky’s postulates. If this was autoimmune you’d be in serious trouble. You people have taken your bogus theorizing to new heights of idiocy. You’ve blasted this forum with your crazy posts about now having antibodies against estrogen and DHT and god knows what and how you’ll off yourself if a water fast doesn’t fix the problem. You need some serious psychological help. Anyone who reads your posts should know you are a paranoid freak. Ok now I’ll GTFO and you can continue your kookery. FREAK!

#10

I hope you kill yourself before i do so i can die in peace knowing such a worthless bag of bones has passed away before me

#11

If it were up to you I guess everyone here would be in some kind of PFS suicide cult. “I hope you kill yourself before I kill myself” sounds like someone in desperate need of psychiatric attention. Even at my lowest points I never seriously considered suicide. I’m far too advanced in recovery to even think of such things at this point. Your fantasies about wanting others to commit suicide before you do is truly disturbing. If you were seriously considering offing yourself I doubt you’d come on forums like this and broadcast it to everyone on multiple occasions, you’d just do it. Sounds to me like you’re just looking for attention.

#12

Anyone that suicides over PFS is a pussy period. I got PFS at age 17 never suicidal once i had a good life.

Then i started listening to nutcases online claiming we had estrogen dominance so i took arimidex (after 3yrs of pfs) and developed post arinidex syndrome. Its nearly identical to PFS except it’s Estrogen that’s effected not dht.

To confirm this i took Transgender doses of estradiol and it did nothing! No gyno no bloating. Just how dht cream does nothing.

Ive become physically disabled due to rapid degeneration from 2 hormome pseudo insensitivity. THAT is a good reason to suixide. I can’t work study exercise or bend any joint in my body. I am a walking puppet housebound.

PFS is child’s play. PAS (post arimidex syndrome) is hell.

Because i got PFS and PAS i have come to the conclusion that they are autoimmune disease. It seems like a repeatable mechanism and induced by lowering hormomes with drugs.

Id do anything to get my pfs life back. Even trade my dick.

5 months since i got PAS and ive quit my business and all i can do is watch tv due to physical disability. So suicide is the cure for this. Unless i can buy chemotherapy online and nuke my immune system. Or commit suicide via voluntary stopping of eating and drinking and maybe the day of my death i recover from PAS.

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#13

Dude gtfo of here. I don’t even know why you’re here. If PFS is child’s play in comparison to this “PAS” then why are you here? Why don’t you just start your own “PAShelp” and leave us all alone. I’m sick of seeing you bitching on SolvePFS and to this forum about how your “condition” is worse than ours.

#14

Once again there is a new topic and people start attacking each other over nothing. Didn’t you people read my post? This is my opinion. If you don’t like it, leave it. This thread is for those who think pfs is AI disorder. I want to dedicate this thread to that topic. If you have another opinion open your own thread and discuss it there. Everybody has the right to have their own opinion and nobody should bother others because of their opinion.
If this continues I have to ask the admin to ban those who violate other people’s rights.

#15

I believe PFS is an AI disorder because:

  • I rarely get a flu or cold after PFS and if I get, it is very very mild.
  • Every time I try to increase my hormones my PFS gets worse.
  • A lot of PFS symptoms are similar to when one’s get an infection: fatigue, muscle wastage, bad sleep, nightmare, digestion problems, etc.
  • In case of digestion problems (SIBO), there is active research and findings regarding AI system attacing nerves in small intestine (SI). As a matter of fact they have discovered the antibody responsible for this act and they offer a test to detect that antibody recently.
  • SIBO also starts when people take certain medicines or there is an infection in SI.
  • You can see PFS-like symptoms in a lot of cases where people take drugs that manipulate hormones, like contraceptive pills, budy building supplements, etc.
  • Whatever is causing PFS is very adaptive. i.e. anything that you take to help with PFS works only for a short time. AI system adapts to the new condition and reverses that.
  • Higher fertility when AI system is weakened is documented. Researchers have documented this among Amazon tribes who are infected by certain parasite. The parasite worm weakens AI system for its own survival. The side effect is more fertility on the host.
2 Likes
#16

You should honestly be banned for saying that, on top of all of your recent trolling here.

There have been actual suicides on this forum and they didn’t constantly wail like a toddler seeking attention about how they were going to do it in advance like you have.

You had a mild ‘pfs’ to start with and made it worse by experimenting with pharmaceuticals, what you are experiencing now - or at least claiming to experience - is similar to the full on crash symptoms many here get at first. You seem to want to make up a disease all for yourself though.

I’ve noticed you mocking this website/support group on at least two other forums too. Take a hike.

1 Like
#17

There have been other discussions on this website regarding PFS and autimmunity. Anybody knows what happened to them?

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =27&t=5589
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =27&t=7762

#18

i rarely post but this guy just infects every forum he finds with negativity and idiocy

douglasmich aka blackfox on solvepfs in a nutshell

-had an extremely mild case of pfs (low libido)
-self experimented with every hormone and pharma drug he could find
-insults deceased PFSers on a regular basis
-provides day to day suicide updates to solvepfs
-recommends ridiculous treatments or theories based on a poor understanding of pharmacology and pathophysiology (he felt good on MDMA. MDMA is apparently an immunosuppressant so recommends we should all be on chemo)
-made up a new condition PAIS and writes about it nonstop. you wouldn’t even pass the 1st year of med school. GTFO with your theories.

stop being so attention seeking. we get it. you are in pain. we all are. some of us suffered from extreme crashes like you did. if you’re going to suffer, suffer in silence. or just whine and bitch every day until you die if that’s how you want to be remembered. next time you are about to whine, remember… there are kids with terminal conditions in children hospitals who bitch less than you.

#19

Great points here. I personally have experienced the same regarding sickness. Everyone in my house will be bed ridden from the flu and il feel fine!
This indicates an overactive immune system aka leaky gut.

Autoimmune disease can only exist with a leaky gut.

The primary objective needs to be restoring gut diversity. Fecal transplants are the golden standard here.

Then an autoimmune paleo diet with boat loads of broths.

Supplement wisely. Try to get all nutrients from food! That means organ meats (liver is best)

Autoimmune disease can be cured but it takes a CDNUTS work ethic. Like i showed in an earlier post fecal transplant has cured MS and parkinsons so its very important to fix the gut.

#20

I also hardly ever get colds anymore since getting PFS.

Before PFS I use to get atleast one bad cold every year.