Hi JN,
Could you test your Androstenadiol Glucoronide? So far, about five guys here have tested and it came very low on all of us. Mine is even under range: 2.44 , range 3.5 to 22.00. This is a good marker for 5arII activity and i am wondering what your number would be after HGH suplemmentation. I am testing my IGF 1 and IGFBP3 on Monday, just came back from the lab and they do it. I am also going to look for an oxytocin an Vasopressin blood test, i don’t know if any labs do these.
HGH deficiency makes sense indeed.
“Growth hormone deficiency has different effects at different ages. In newborn infants the primary manifestations may be hypoglycemia or micropenis, while in later infancy and childhood, growth failure is more likely. Deficiency in adults is rare, but may feature diminished lean body mass, poor bone density, and a number of physical and psychological symptoms. Psychological symptoms include poor memory, social withdrawal, and depression, while physical symptoms may include loss of strength, stamina, and musculature. Other hormonal or glandular disorders frequently coincide with diminished growth hormone production.”
[edit] In adulthood
The incidence of genuine adult-onset GHD, normally due to pituitary tumours, is estimated at 10 per million[4].
Recognised effects include:
Reduced muscle mass and strength
Reduced bone mass and strength
Reduced quality of life, particularly energy levels
Impaired concentration and loss of memory
Increased body fat, particularly around the waistline
Lipid abnormalities, particularly raised LDL cholesterol
Insulin resistance
Increased levels of fibrinogen and plasminogen activator inhibitor
Cardiac dysfunction, including a thickened intima media
I have most of the symptons above…
Now read this:
Although GH can be readily measured in a blood sample, testing for GH deficiency is constrained by the fact that levels are nearly undetectable for most of the day. This makes simple measurement of GH in a single blood sample useless for detecting deficiency.
“Provocative tests” involve giving a dose of an agent that will normally provoke a pituitary to release a burst of growth hormone. An intravenous line is established, the agent is given, and small amounts of blood are drawn at 15 minute intervals over the next hour to determine if a rise of GH was provoked. Agents which have been used clinically to stimulate and assess GH secretion are arginine, levodopa, clonidine, epinephrine and propranolol, glucagon and insulin. An insulin tolerance test has been shown to be reproducible, age-independent, and able to distinguish between GHD and normal adults[9], and so is the test of choice.
Wikipedia, HGH deficiency.
So this is the reason i feel better when i eat Fava beans (rich in Levodopa), my craving for sugar, or when i run. They provoke release of GH.
How can one tell, if he has reduced muscle mass? Do you feel weaker, can you see your body’s tone melting away or do you just lose weight?
In my case, from the waist up i ve seen the tone gone away, plus my arms are thiner and less firm. From the waist down, i seem to be accumulating more fat, which could be from E2 as well. You don’t need to feel weaker to be losing lean mass.
correiovip, Do you lift weights? If you don’t you should certainly think about doing so.
I took this drug longer than most on this board and I have have been lifting weights since I was a kid. There is a lot of evidence that strength training with weights increases testosterone in men. Obviously you would get the benift of better quality muscle as well.
I had more muscle before I began taking this horrible pill, but I am getting closer to where I once was. It’s important to work large body parts like chest, back, legs and shoulders, not just arms; and also lift heavier weights. I have read several articles on line that justify this theory. I also feel a lot better after doing it.
I can’t lift weights anymore. If i do so, as i ve tried many times, cortisol goes up fast and i become a zombie for about three days. No sleep and excessive inflammatory response. I had no idea why this happens, but now it is becoming more clear that it is HGH deficiency. Cortisol and GH act together preventing Hypoglicemia. If you re deficient in GH, cortisol goes up alone.
The biggest help to me over the years has been bodybuilders.
They know the black market and they can get hold of anything.
Get to know bodybuilders and get to the know the black market. Just walk into any ‘big boy’ gym. That’s what I do. I’m NEVER disappointed. i can get whatever I want in 10 minutes.
JN
Do you have blood analysis before / after taking HGH? Adiol G levels etc…
I was so dramatically impotent that I doubt arginine would have made the sole difference. Or interval training. Besides now, I’m VERY fit.
I can’t remember if I had androstenedione tested.
Did you ever get brainfog or feel emotionally blunted, like you had lost some of your personality?
This is the most comprehensive survey of IGF-1 levels of normal people that I have been able to find - kazman
hsc.wvu.edu/som/cmed/c8/resu … ummary.pdf
I would suggest comparing levels to this (note the second page has the older males stratified by age group).
One of my docs (the one I trust the most) said IGFBP3 is useless unless you have an IGF-1 value taken at the same time.
Sufferer 01-09,
Before I understood what fin had done I thought the problem was some how circulatory (circulatory issues run in the family). Anyhow, after doing regular cardio for awhile I then switched to interval training (e.g. 1-2 minute intervals @ 95% of max heart rate).
The interesting thing is that libido came surging back. Lasted 3 or 4 months then started to fade (I was getting tired anyway and had to cut back from 3 to 2 times/week).
Anyhow, interval training is one of the proven ways to elevate IGF-1 and GH. In fact with all the blood work have been able to confirm that my IGF-1 is at the bottom of the first quartile for my age group, unless serum is taken within 24 hours of interval training, where I’m then in the top 25% of my age group.
You are young, why not use arginine or glutamine supplementation to raise GH - are you monitoring GH or IGF-1? These supplements will work into your early 40s sometimes longer.
Just an FYI, I do not recommend interval training unless your cardiologist gives you the go ahead (mine did after a stress test with dye)
Have you had androstenedione tested?
sufferer2001,
Since you have said you feel cured from the wrath of propecia, I have a couple of other things I was wondering about that I have not seen discussed by you.
Would you say you feel the intense desire to have sex again, like when your libedo was normal prior to taking the drug? Also do you feel that you have achieved the same sensation of feeling during sex that you felt prior to taking the drug?
I haven’t seen anyone post that they feel close to 100% recovered in these areas. If that is the case with you, that would be a big achievement.
thanks
This company has both HGH (the original formula in the ad) and IGF-1 homeopathic sprays for sale:
alwaysyoung.com/
(This one has better prices, but the above one has a better write up)
goodnaturenutrition.com/cate … awodu3-aaw
From what I’ve read on the internet most of the HGH supplements on the market (not talking prescription here) contain only amino acids utilized by the pituitary to make HGH, but the homeopathic ones actually contain a small dose of actual HGH. I also read that the amount of HGH that is allowed to be added to these supplements is regulated by the FDA (our friends). This company claims in the ad their products are
FDA Registered
Produced in the United States by an FDA Certified Lab
This sounds to me (being naive as I am) that this could be somewhat legitimate. Has anyone tried these or knows if they are worth trying?
BadLuck,
I have read quite a bit about human growth hormone this year as originaly my doc thought somatropin (HGH releasing) deficiency might be an issue. I have read in several places that the nose sprays in general, and the homeopathies in particular, do not work.
Here is the treatise I most often refer back to for guidance on HGH, be sure read the whole book, but the chapters on HGH and arginine are the most applicable. The author is an anti-aging fellow with an engineering background, but his work seems well referenced (and I’ve read many of his references).
Kazman,
Where are you from? Are you doctor willing to prescribe HGH to you?
the only worry i have with hgh is when i think hgh i worry that if i go off it my testicles will shrink, and i will become infertle… i dont know if this is true or not… bec i hear its compared to steroids and steroids do this???
are my facts straight??
Chiller please do some research on your own.