I am not sure if there is a place for me, I just relate to you all so much but my cause is unconfirmed BPA poisoning

Welcome to our community. Please fill in the following template as a way of introducing yourself, and helping others to understand your background and situation.

Where are you from (country)?

How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)
anhedonia sexual disfunction

What is your current age, height, weight?
32, 187cm, 66kg

What specific drug did you use (finasteride, dutasteride, saw palmetto, isotretinoin/Accutane, fluoxetine, sertraline, citalopram, leuprorelin, etc…)?
one Endo told me I probably got an intoxication from very heavy BPA leaching of plastic retainers due to dissolution of the material due to acid beverages I consumed with them on over the course of 2 months (discovered later) but GP told me I got all of this from long covid and another Endo told me I was absolutely fine and to take Cialis and go live (wtf)

What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
Uknown (although I have samples and I am recently researching how/where I could test it)

What condition was being treated with the drug?
I would say dental alignment when it is confirmed that it was the bad use of retainers.

For how long did you take the drug (weeks/months/years)?
6 weeks

Date when you started the drug?
April 2022

Date when you quit the drug?
May 2022

Age when you quit?

How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
cold turkey

How long into your usage did you notice the onset of side effects?
4th week (25th April22)

What side effects did you experience that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Check the boxes that apply. You can save your post first, then interactively check/uncheck the boxes by clicking on them. If your symptoms change, please update your list.

[X] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[X] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence (resolved in September22 so after about 5 months)
[X] Loss of Morning Erections
[X] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[X] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[X] Watery Ejaculate
[X] Reduced Ejaculate
[X] Inability or Difficulty to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[X] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility [have tests, results below]

[ ] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat (Jun22-July22 resolved in August22 so after 2 months)
[X] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating (residual but very present)
[ ] Confusion (resolved in August22)
[ ] Memory Loss / Forgetfulness (resolved in August22)
[X] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought (comes and goes)
[X] Slurring of Speech (comes and goes)
[X] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency (comes and goes)
[X] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks (comes and goes)
[X] Severe Depression / Melancholy (mainly present but somedays I am lucky to have an uplift)
[X] Suicidal Thoughts (May22-June22 were the worst now comes and goes)

[X] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[X] Testicular Pain (comes and goes)
[X] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness (also they weight less on my sack)
[X] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain (lost 10 kg)
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts) (no thankfully)
[ ] Muscle Wastage (still to see going to start gym next week, 30 Jan23)
[X] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain (resolved in August22 so after 4 months)
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

[X] Prostate pain (pulsating sensation and with pain, comes and goes, same as Testicular pain)
[X] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion (without doing anything…)
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[X] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness (really decrease in acuity)
[X] Tinnitus (ringing or high pitched sound in ears) (only left ear, it’s like a beating drum comes and goes)
[ ] Hearing loss
[ ] Increased hair loss (my hair receding stopped in full when the onset side effects started up to date)
[ ] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[X] Other (please explain)
Nails shedding (May22-Oct22, Dec22 resolved and Jan23 started to shedd again, just only very slightly)
Hands inflamation (same as nails shedding although this time it’s slighty worse)
Poor circulation in hands, my hands (blood points)
Blood points in ballsack
Heart pain and palpitations (April22-May22, June22 resolved)
Insomnia (June22, July22 resolved in a mayor part)
Anorgasmia (May22-July22, August22 resolved altgough my orgasms are maybe 50% intensity of what they used to be)
Severe headache (May22-June22, July22 resolved)
Numbing of my feet (May22-August22, Sep22 resolved most of the intensity, comes and goes)

What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
I started June22 with a natural approach, healthy normal diet (no sodas or processed) lots of walks outside and talking to my family and relatives about what was happening over the course of June-September and whose I am thankfull.
I plan to introduce a strict natural approach in 2023 making sure at least 5/7 days of the week my micronutrients are 200% to 400% covered + lots of exercises (I will start them slowly too see how I react)

If you have pre or post-drug blood tests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (please post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?
post-intoxication hormonal test taken on 23 Dec22 and seminal test taken on 30 Dec22

7.75, range 0.95 - 11.95, units UI/L
3.41, range 1.5 - 9.30, units UI/L
8.48, range 2.10 - 17.70, units ug/L
171.30, range 44.52 - 375.24, units mUI/L
Testosterone (I think it is only the total one)
27.39, range 5.72 - 26.14, units mUI/L
789.34, range 118.16 - 948.70, units ng/dL

5, range > 2, units ml
3.86, range > 16, units million/ml
Grade 3+2 11.3%, range >30%
Normal 2%, range >4%

Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience?

Tell us your story, in your own words, about your usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.
I hope there is a place for me here, I am alone and devastated, I hope I find some support here.

It all started in April22 when I supposedly wore plastic retainers more than I was suppossed to 2 months using same set and consumed acidic beverages while I had them on thus leading to heavy BPA leaching over the course of 2 months. [The BPA leaching is still to be confirmed by test, it is the supposition of and Endo although my Doc told me I got everything from Long Covid but I never heard Covid having any 5a-reductase effect so I will stick with the BPA until test show me that Endo and I are wrong]

At first week of April22 everything was fine, it was me as always, but at the end of April22 I noticed heart palpitations and pain

8 May22 - It’s starting
I was severely anxious, with increased palpitations and went to hospital a couple of times just to get bloods and ecg done everything was in range so they diagnosed it as anxiety and discharged me.

13 May22 - It’s getting to the bottom
continued to worsen at fast pace, started to note a constant numbing in my left feet, I could not concentrate nor read my though process was not clear and I had hard times doing any kind of task, thankfully my doctor heard me this time and stopped me from continue working, talked to family and relatives no one believed me, doctors thought I was just anxious, tinnitus in left ear like an on/off drum at random, joint pain and muscle pain.

23 May22 - Crash, bottom pit
I got extreme brain fog, everything was blurry and snowy in my vision, I could not perform any task aside from laying in bed or sofa or walking very slowly, I starting getting muscle aches. I remember talking to my cousin about what was happening to me and that I felt there was something really wrong and that I was considering two things, one was suicide if I could not recover and the other one was complete isolation in a house in the mountain until I die just for the sake of not having to relate to any human who I just started to see as different being from whatever I was becoming.

My state continued worsening up to 27 of May22 when I got a severe head pain, went to hospital, got MRI done x2 times, Neurologist told me that I got slight inflamation and migraine from over stress and anxiety and prescribed me anxiolitic drugs which I did not take. Here I stopped using the “supposedly damned” plastic retainers set which I wore the same set since April and I noticed were quite melted compared to a normal 2week used set.

Count 1 week after the removal of the supposed plastic retainers that supposedly was leaking BPA into my body at high doses

6 June22 - below the bottom pit
I can cleary remember that Monday morning very well, I just woke up and the first tihing I perceive is no more brain fog, no more heart palpitations, no more heart pain, no more snowy vision, no more anxiety, very slight headache, very slight numbing on the left feet and a monstruous calm, like overly calmed like what the hell is this observation of reality, I couldn’t feel at all! nothing! complete nothing! I freak out big time, like very big time I went to the sofa and sit there straight in fetal position with my face close to my knees and my hands holding my head and repeating over and over again that I could not feel. My mom ran towards me and started to get very worried I talked to her about everything and I wanted to cry but I just couldn’t it was all just ridiculously torturing, I couldn’t eat at all, I could not do anything other than stay in fetal position I stood there all there until night, I could not sleep a minute, I noted my body weighted like a ton and I knew my body was tired BUT I COULD NOT FEEL THAT I WAS TIRED WTF! and so I could not sleep.

7 June22 - I did not even think this was possible to be experienced by me
I ran straight to the ER and told my doctor that I wanted a mercy kill. I was freaking about and explained everything my doctor finally felt empathy of me I saw it in her face the reflect of my condition which I suppose was of extreme misery, she told me to start immediate psychological theraphy with the assistand of a psychiatrist if needed and put me on the suicide warning list or something like that, called the hospital talked to them about me. She suggested that whatever I was ongoing they were going to test everything again and that she did not recommend me by any means taking any psych drug other than by vital necesity (do or die) because the secondary effects of these drugs are often the Anhedonia I was experiencing. This was the first time I heard about the word Anhedonia. She then started to talk to me about my psychological condition and that whatever triggered it if the tests came right and I did the right things it would resolve but it will take time, a lot of time actually maybe months or even years. YEARS?! I was on day 2 asking for a mercy kill how I was supposed to withstand this (oh so torturingly did I… up to this day at least).

8 June22
I was at home couldnt’ feel anything, I legit tried everything I had without the use of hard drugs in attempts to feel something like:

  • Talking to people - Nothing, couldn’t relate no chills at any situation, anyone, family included seemed as distant person to me.
  • Hearing music that used to give me instant chills - Nothing for the over 1000 themes I have and the variety is infinite.
  • Movies I used to enjoy - Nothing
  • Hobbies I used to enjoy - couldn’t do it, it became pointless, 0 drive to continue after mere minutes.
  • Yt videos? nothing
  • I told my family to randomly scare me though the day - the did it right when I was not expecting but I couldn’t feel not even fear.
  • Took a shitton of caffeine - Nothing I was not nervous at all the same calm that began on 6 June22 was there.
  • Holding my pee for long time - couldn’t feel pleasure over the release
  • Masturbate to porn - the erection was incredibly incredibly hard to achieve when I used to go instant diamonds every time for the last 15 years while happy while deppressed while sad while angry. Moreso I could not feel pleasure during masturbation, my penis felt empty inside, no sensation in the head (I am not circumsised and used to enjoy plenty of sensations in my penis gland)
  • Orgasm - finally after 1 hour of tries with erections coming with much difficulty and going over and over again I ejaculated, felt nothing (this one was the most painfull to experience)

9 June22
Had visit with my doctor, I told her about everything I did on the previous day, nothing worked. I described my experimentation of reality like I was experiencing a SUPER reality, like everything seemed to be awfully real I don’t know how to described it, like I was devoid of any feeling of any kind and only a cold heavy calm remained whatever the circumstance and that the calm was torturing me it was not a humanly calm in the sense but just a too painfull calm. She told me to follow the following psychological-phyisical theraphy:

  • Healthy diet
  • Everyday 2h walk
  • Day diary: Consisting of logging all my activities and If I felt any feeling senstation while at it
  • Emotional routine: Consisting in meditation and remembering exercises of past full experiences in all details (this was extremely difficult because my imagination crashed during that period)
  • Senses routine: Consisting of a set of exercises involving taste, hearing, smell etc
  • Dreaming routine and diary: Consisting logging everything I remember I dreamt just after waking up and reading previous day dream before sleep a couple of times with detail.
  • No bluelight after 6 pm

After I read that I call her it was all straight bullshit and if she was kidding me, she told me to trust that the psych drugs are worse and only in case of do or die, she told me to test it for the sake of having something to do that occupy my time therefore not making me being conscious of the super reality I was experiencing. I admit that was true at least so I did that the entirety of June and July.

August22 - from 0 to 0.1
week 1: Recovered pleasure feeling over peeing, recovered chills from music, movies and talking to people albeit the intesity of these being 30% of what they used to be.
week 2: Joint and muscle pain resolved, recovered a slight feel of connection towards my close family
week 3: Recovered feeling nervous and had minimal drive to try a bit of my hobbies but couldn’t last more than 30 minutes, still big improvement.
week 4: Recovered feeling pleasure when orgasms but the intesity is of 20% of what they used to be, still no pleasure from masturbation, erections were still very hard to achieve but a bit easier than in previous months

September 22 from 0.1 to 0.2
week 1: Recovered a slight sensation of pleasure when waking up after a good dream, researched about anhedonia
week 2: Recovered a slight slight sensation of libido, at least it was not 0 however erections still very difficult to achieve and maintain, orgasm still at 20%
week 3: less numbing in general in every other feeling
week 4: music feels actually okay

October 22 from 0.2 to 0.25 and freeze here
week 1: Nails shedding started to resolve, although the part where the nail meets the skin, that skin kept receded up until date
week 2: I am at 25% of what I used to be globally, with the exception of erections, quality wise and sense wise I could not feel anything at masturbation
week 3: Tried to resume doing exercises related to my work, couldn’t keep the pace but some where manageable
week 4: Rested for the entire week of any exercises, just basic healthy diet and walking 2h.

November 22 Resumed working
week 1 and 2: Testicular pain, prostate pulsations
week 3 and 4: the tinnitus that accompanied me since May resolved

December 22 Resumed holydays
week 1: Oh the morning erections are here, day on day off and at the end of the week, miracle, my libido was up for the first time and in what I would say a legit 30%, I could feel the warmth of my body when masturbation and I would say I felt a really really bit of pleasure during it but say 5% of what it used to be. I remember saying the words “OH MY GOD FINALLY ITS BEEN SO LONG SINCE THIS FEELING” pretty well
week 2: Sweetest week on my entire process by a mile. I started to feel melancholic at love songs at what I would say a nice 10%
week 3: I feel weird like nervous and and anxious, no more morning erections again, no more libido… shit, get blood test by endo, endo said hormones are nice and that it’s all psychological but suggested to check seminal test to be sure (since I told him about testicular pain)
week 4: got to see uro, he tells me everything is fine albeit the testicuar pain, prostate pulsation I reported, got seminal tested.

January 22 Here we go again… 2nd Crash
week 1: All emotions numbed all of a sudden but at least I felt a bit anxious and nervous start to research about testicular pain, results of seminals, I freak out, I am likely infertile, got to see endo, endo’s face is a puzzle, he can’t understand how a supposed healthy male with nice hormones got these results, endo calls fertility center and talks with biologist, they share my results with each other and thoughs, they can’t figure out, biologist and endo suggest repeating seminals tests in 6 months. I tell endo to repeat hormone tests too but he denies until results of next seminal test. Endo tells me about endocrine disruptors being reflected in hormone and since mines were nice that is discarted, all that’s left is to confirm the seminals. If I am confirmed infertile he will freeze what’s left of my sperm and MAYBE check my testes with ultrasound.
week 2: Appoint another endo show everything, tells me about hormones being nice not really reflecting everything and that by instance BPA could mess up the axis aswell as other medications like those for hair loss. First time hearing about this, tell endo about the retainers, he tells me it is a possibility they leaked BPA big time for those 2 months and because BPA mess up with enzimes that play important role in the axis my receptors coudl be downregulated although this is only a very remotely supposition. He suggest me to get the retainers tested for BPA leaking to be sure and to check my urine.
week 3: BPA in urine seems 1000 below range, 2 week retainers without ingering liquids while on them are working fine, I research about hormone receptors, studies of BPA downregulating big time 5ar types 1 2 and 5 (the whole set) I also research about hair loss doing drugs doing same things. And finally I end up in this forum lurk for days and decide to share my story.

That is all, the amount of torturing events I went from May-July before getting a bit better in August are beyond any punishment I could imagine. I would not wish this not even to the Devil himself.

Today, 28 of January my major problems are that emotional numbness returned in say 80% as well as 0 libido, 0 morning wood, very very difficult to get and maintain erections, 0 feel when masturbating but at least 5% of orgasm feeling. Down there I feel like I am a child, my testicles feel really light and small and my dick empty. I also freaked out big time a couple of times because when reading about PFS and everything you guys went and how close I can relate to you left me a very bad feeling that I may be in the same hell as you all and I may stay here for years… knowing not even a possible recovery could be achieved…

My next actions are:

  • Start natural protocols the entire of 2023 or at least as long as I can go before starting any drugs.
  • Get to see my doctor on 2nd february and update her, beg her to appoint me a complete hormonal test that reflects estradiol dht and all the missing hormones, if she denies (she will because she claimed everything on long covid as root cause…) I will search and wont stop until I find and endo that appoints me the tests. There should be something off, I must try to get the solid proof to claim PFS because otherwise no one will ever believe me.
  • Get 1 year off or straight quit my job, I can’t and won’t go on 8h work routine until I get this fixed, whatever the time it takes, I am priorizing the 100% of my time to do anything I feel like could work in fixing me at least to a 25% I don’t ask for much…
  • Try to test the melted retainers for BPA leaking, even If I had to purchase an urine test (knowing my urine is fine) and immerse the retainers for a couple of hours to achieve getting the data I need to confirm or discard the BPA theory.

My wish for 2023 is to somehow get into the same state I was in the 1st week of Dec23, If my body is permanently damage then how I could get to that point? I am holding my entire life in the fact that, that precise week I could get my back self again even if it was at 25%. My body did it once it should be able to do it again, there’s shouldn’t be nothing holding it back.

My family and relatives are aware of my situation, although they don’t believe that I am broken, they just believe it’s just a phase and that I will get to my 100% with a lot of time. I told them about PFS and how it relates to my condition but they just can’t believe me. They hold onto the nice hormones results to support that I am fixable. They know I am really affected by being infertile and that my current sexuals functions are miserable but they just keep telling me it’s a phase and everything will resolve.

I am thankfull because my family and relatives in a way support me and share my pain albeit not being able to comprehend me internal experience and I don’t blame them for not sharing my point but god… I feel so so so really alone…

I’ve never ever experienced sex, I’ve never ever had any relationship, I had high hopes that in the coming years I could find someone, I was really a driven hopefull sports man whose entire world revolved around that hope, any exercise or anything I had to endure was worth it towards that hope.

I am now a broken impotent infertile man and I fear I may never recover. I am going to try because that’s all I would do, but I fear I could kill myself if the years go by and I can’t return to that miracle 1st week of Dec22… heck I don’t care about infertily I just wish to be able to feel again at a solid 25% including down there and libido wise.

I hope we could get along I wish for a miracle for all of us, it needs to be fixable at least partially, with time… it just has to…


  1. Name of the therapy/substance:
    • Dosage:
    • How often you took it:
  2. Status
    • Still using [ ]
    • Stopped with no lasting change to initial symptoms [ ]
    • Stopped with persistent change to symptoms [ ]
  3. Duration of use: Days [ ] Months [ ] Years [ ]
  4. Response when you started:
    • Greatly improved [ ]
    • Slightly improved [ ]
    • Stayed the same [ ]
    • Slightly worsened [ ]
    • Greatly worsened [ ]
  5. Current response (if you’re still using the therapy/substance) OR Response in the time before you stopped the treatment
    • Greatly improved [ ]
    • Slightly improved [ ]
    • Stayed the same [ ]
    • Slightly worsened [ ]
    • Greatly worsened [ ]
  6. Lasting changes to initial symptoms after cessation (if you have stopped for more than 3 weeks)
    • Greatly improved [ ]
    • Slightly improved [ ]
    • Stayed the same [ ]
    • Slightly worsened [ ]
    • Greatly worsened [ ]
1 Like

Sorry to hear you are in this situation.

Did the endo who ordered the test for levels of BPA mention anything about how the elimination half-life of BPA might effect the test results? It looks like quite a bit of time had passed between your exposure and the time you had blood drawn for the test. Should there still be elevated levels assuming you were transiently exposed to what is considered a toxic level?

I don’t know much about the endocrine disrupting effects of BPAs except that they generally have estrogenic activity. It certainly doesn’t sound like cialis is a fix or that what you are describing are complications from Covid.

1 Like

First of all thank you so much for your response even something so simple sometimes become a huge bubble for me to graps air through my day.

Did the endo who ordered the test for levels of BPA mention anything about how the elimination half-life of BPA might effect the test results?

No, but I can ask him in next session

It looks like quite a bit of time had passed between your exposure and the time you had blood drawn for the test.

That is correct it seems that the source is not present anymore whatever it was and it can all be traced back to april-may, those where the months where I missued the same retainers for 2 months while drinking acidic beverages, it was a big stupid mistake I know. This is only a suppossition of one of the 2 endos I visited.

Should there still be elevated levels assuming you were transiently exposed to what is considered a toxic level?

That I don’t know, I’ve read from the daily BPA intake, body discards 50% and the other 50% is metabolized / stored in fat tissue, don’t know for much long, considering BPA as the main culprit I think I could say I had the toxic exposure daily during the period of roughly 2 months.
As of now, my BPA in urine is 1000 times below the safe range so the certain thing is that I am not exposed anymore (this is in fact a very good thing actually for the recovery process even if I don’t know it is possible) but I don’t know for certain if there’s still toxic levels of BPA stored my body.

I don’t know much about the endocrine disrupting effects of BPAs except that they generally have estrogenic activity.

Correct it’s highly estrogenic like a 70% downgraded version of estradiol. Moreso there are studies showing how BPA downregulates 5ar types 1,2,3 (the whole set) in the same % as fin, dut accutane does.
Here is another showing the effects on sperm count aswell as hypothalamaus

It certainly doesn’t sound like cialis is a fix

Correct but one of the endos said I am fine and to give it a try. But I know, what’s the point of getting hard if I have no senses down there. It would be same as masturbation as it is now only that it will always be available instead of needed big time to get it up

or that what you are describing are complications from Covid.

I know, both endos called bullshit on this one, one told me in mices it is shown that covid attack testes and thalamus but mice testes defensive mechanism is different from humans and moreso the only studies they have of covid fucking up human testes is when the patients where in ICU near dying. People that have a transient flu shouldn’t be affected, it makes no sense.
However GP stills thinks that I had very bad luck. I will demand her to prove that and to appoint me more tests and to stop me from working. If she disagrees I will quit. I can’t go on like this. I can’t go through 8h forced work load knowing there’s something really off. I just don’t have the willpower to put me into that routine.

I still don’t know how to address this, it will take me big time and to be humble with myself

1 Like

It’s me again.

I’m having lots of ups and downs I am honestly overhelmed by how much our hells ressemble and I am having a hard time digesting all the information in the forum.

Not to take any merit, it is a really usefull statistical data that is pushing towards our recovery none least but you know, the kind of sensation you get when staying here for long.

I think it is important to take breaks and go to the outer world and find beauty in stupid things like nature and the likes and not to focus on women too much because otherwise is constant pain to be reminded you are in a suppossed permanent state of such disability towards sex without supporting drugs.

At the same time I can’t wait to see my doc and appoint next visits and tests and I also have decided to endure 2023 without any kind of drugs other than vitamins minerals and healthy lifestyle however stupid this might sound to some long sufferers. I think I need to give my body an opportunity to somehow repair whatever damage is done.

I was in the same boat when this first began and had about zero mental and physical willpower to make it through a day of work. This improved massively in the first 6 months post-crash for me.

Have they recalled the model of retainer you were using that disintegrated? I can’t imagine this not being a huge public health hazard. Unless you were drinking white vinegar, it’s hard to imagine you were drinking anything more acidic than orange juice and sodas, the same as anyone else in the general population.

1 Like

I was in the same boat when this first began and had about zero mental and physical willpower to make it through a day of work. This improved massively in the first 6 months post-crash for me.

My problem is that I can’t stand being around normal people because I just can’t relate to them anymore I am currently an impotent man, the people in my surrounds are happy and optimistic, sometimes they are down a bit too but their issues are transient, they know it so they keep pushing like “it will get better soon so lets enjoy this” however my issue maybe not transient at all. That’s the reason I start to feel really really bad when I am around people and that has never happend to me before. Therefore I need to stop for at least 1 year to see how my body manages this either by a temporal leave or just by quitting.

Have they recalled the model of retainer you were using that disintegrated?

It was Invisalign, the material is supposedly FDA approved and BPA free but there are studies showing it is made by layers, first one is a protective one, it shields the user from the other layers, it lasts approximately 16 days before it is worn enough for the other layers to show up. Those next layer can leak in fact BPA. Suppossedly the user is informed to use the each set of retainers between 10 and 14 days avoiding therefore any kind of leakage. I confirmed this by doing an endrocine disruptor urine test that showed the current one is safe.
I missused the damned set for about 30 something days.
The only things I drank more acidic than my saliva were orange juice and sodas.

Doctors just don’t agree with each other:

  • GP: “Long covid fucked up your microcirculation, we need to wait and if you feel anything more come and maybe we will check you again” (I for one love and hate my GP she was really empathic towards me at first but now I feel she’s doubting me and maybe will join Psycho 1 into “all in my head” theory)
  • Endo 1: “Axis is good, testicles bad, don’t know why, maybe I will check you more to investigate on this”
  • Endo 2: “BPA might have fucked you, you need to test the used retainers for BPA leakage before we can proceed”
  • Psycho: It’s all in your head

I need to check the used retainers to confirm or discard the BPA theory

Sorry just to understand, it’s confirmed that BPA leakage from the erosion of your retainers caused this condition? If so, that really lends weight to the notion of ‘post endocrine disruption syndrome’


If seems very likely. I’ve seen a few cases on this forum of people getting “PFS” from substances that are not finasteride. Finasteride is just the most likely and most common substance to cause the syndrome because of just how potent it is as an antiandrogen.

1 Like

Sorry just to understand, it’s confirmed that BPA leakage from the erosion of your retainers caused this condition?

It’s one of the endo’s suposition, It is still not confirmed but once I check for the leakage in my old retainers then at least there will be some light into this darkness.
Still my gp blames it all to long covid. Just for the sake of having a nice timeline, I got mild covid in Jan22 but in Feb22 and March22 I was absolutely fine, nice erections, nice libido etc
It is in April22-May22 that everything spiraled down that’s why both endos discard anything about covid

1 Like

If seems very likely. I’ve seen a few cases on this forum of people getting “PFS” from substances that are not finasteride.

That’s what scared me the most, just for the sake of having a remote idea what was/is happening to my body and why everyone I tell call it’s all in my head when I have clear signs in my body that something messed it up big time.

As long as I have the willpower to do it I am planning to make an update diary the likes of @SS1 did I think it is important to keep track of things.

I’ll be updating anything in this post:

30 Jan23
Today was in general pretty bad day, I am definetly going through a crash, my anxiety is really high I woke up after 5h of sleep feelling already anxious, it was bad time but I dream about kissing a dream gf in her lips innocently still felt nothing when I woke up and anxiety sure did not help, used to wake up aroused af before, I miss that. I had these dreams really frequeny pre pfs but now dream gf only visits me once a month. Soon I will go see my GP and report all the battery of current issues in hopes she withdraws me for work, at least for a month until further evolution. I will also share with her all my thoughs and worries about bpa and pfs, I wonder if she will just straight laught at me or consider it seriously. It’s not that I am claiming pfs from taking fin dut or the likes, I am claimming it from supposed toxic exposure to BPA which I have yet to confirm.

Current issues:

  • Prostate fells pretty tight it was not like that in December something definetly happend down there
  • Minnor discomfot Left testicle pain: comes and goes
  • Left Testicle numbness: comes and goes
  • Testicles have shrinked even more they are maye 2/3 of what I had in December which was already small
  • Cold hands and feets: is constant even If I use gloves they are still cold so I directly use hot water to heat them.
  • Shivers: are frequent now and I hate them
  • Body hair in arms and non existant (at least pect hair and legs hair is still there holding strong)
  • Muscle tiredness (this one is unreal just holding in the metro for a bit gets muscles in pain, this has definetly worsen): I fear if when I resume gym if this will worsen or improve… I fear it a lot.
  • Mild although noticeable numbness in the plant of my left feet: It has return and now is constant still mild
  • Low sweat: since beginning of crash
  • Morning woods: 0
  • Night woods: 0
  • Spontaneous woods: 0
  • Orgasm: 3/10
  • Libido: below 0
  • Right hand Finger skin is extreme paperish also Right hand is extremely cold, there’s definetly issues with blood there.
  • Sleep time: pretty bad like 5h it used to be 7h before Jan23
  • Anxiety it’s constant, its like its a sign my body is going through a crash I had not a single bit of anxiety when I was a lot of better in August-September
  • Mental focus is hard with this kind of anxiety**
  • My face oil is low


What I wish resolves before March23

  • Sleep to return to at least 7h
  • the skin of my right hand fingers to become less papery
  • my hands and feet to get less cold
  • the shivers to lower a lot maybe 1 per week
  • muscle tone improves and supports me in following gym sessions
  • Anxiety lowers and allow me to keep me distracted with yt hobbies or whatever


What I am grateful for

  • I can still enjoy music sometimes
  • I can still feel orgasm even if its a shit compared with before
  • Mentally I can still focus sometimes
  • I have still yet to try a lot of things to try recover so I can’t say it will be impossible I am filling my arsenal and soon will launch a battery of tests I can wait to see their effect
  • Family although they don’t share my pfs state and carry it all on psychologic issue they still try to up my mood
  • Although my hair oil is lower it is still decent I would say.
  • Due to my face’s oil being lower my black pores are being cleaned
  • Hair-loss freeze (this scares me a lot I would prefer to go bald in enchage to my pfs, seems like bpa could be like fin/dut, I wonder if chinese workers in plastic industries have heads full of hair, it would be interesting if I could check that)



  • Research a bit of AR upregulators to see if there’s any supplement that would add to my stack and if it has sides
  • Research common pattern in help recoveries
  • Sleep early to restore cyrcadyam rithm
  • enjoy a bit of yt
  • try to stay calm
  • don’t fear the mornings just wake up and go

1 Feb23
Morning: bad lots of anxiety as I was discovering more and more effects of BPA and its similarity to fin/dut overall.
Rest of the day: Tried to stay calm it was a bit better, I was toying with the idea that I’ll be permanently like that and if that’s the case doing whatever the fuck I wanted would be best case to cope, no point into participating in society, no point on women, no point on havings kids, I will just buy a nice house ina woods and enjoy the simplest of life, fill my head with books, fishing, astronomy also keeping and eye and maybe trying to solve what everyday is more confirmed as our problem and even prior to doing that I would just buy a shitton of drugs and hire a high end escort to approximate the feeling of sex although it has been taken away from me, an 50% approximation would be enough, yeah, I would take that.

I would also have to find a crazy enough women to agree to get artificial inseminated by the remaining healthy sperm I have, my genes are not something to be wasted I had an incredible life up until, good at science, tall, light hair, big d (in shambles now), incredible good at math and science in general, good creativity and incredibly emotional feelings (all gone now), so yeah I feel like somebody else might have a really good time on those, passing my genes is a must.

The problem with all of this is that I would need an amount of money which would allow me to retire while living frugali until I die + covering expenses for supp or technical devices I need so I may have to endure 2-3 years in hell just gathering as much money as I can. Maybe 300k will do, dunno I have yet to make some calculations onto this. The alternative is doing the same + having a menial manual job which I won’t have to think and move like a robot basically, since my high end paying job is 100% mental I just can’t handle 8h of 100% mental work when I know my body is broken and probably irreparable. Maybe in the next life God has the gf whom I always dream about already prepared for when I leave that’s the core idea that is now feeding my soul and probably will prevent me from suicide.

Current issues:

  • Prostate fells pretty tight: same
  • Minnor discomfot Left testicle pain: same
  • Left Testicle numbness: same
  • Testicles have shrinked: same
  • Cold hands and feets: same
  • Shivers: same
  • Body hair in arms and non existant: same
  • Mild although noticeable numbness in the plant of my left feet: same
  • Low sweat: same
  • Morning woods: 0
  • Night woods: 0
  • Spontaneous woods: 0
  • Orgasm: 3/10
  • Libido: below 0
  • Right hand Finger skin is extreme paperish: same
  • Sleep time: same
  • Anxiety: same
  • Mental focus: same
  • My face oil is low: same

What I am grateful for:

  • same

Since this feels like it will not improve at least in the coming months / years unless a miracle happends I will stop updating current issues / grateful for section per se and only post of improvements relative to this state if any.

Science gathered today:

Mean expression of ESR2 and ESRRA increased by 65% and 38%, respectively, in the highest versus lowest BPA exposure tertile.

Estrogen receptor beta (ERβ) also known as NR3A2 (nuclear receptor subfamily 3, group A, member 2) is one of two main types of estrogen receptor—a nuclear receptor which is activated by the sex hormone estrogen.[5] In humans ERβ is encoded by the ESR2 gene.[6]

Estrogen insensitivity syndrome (EIS), or estrogen resistance, is a form of congenital estrogen deficiency or hypoestrogenism[2] which is caused by a defective estrogen receptor (ER) – specifically, the estrogen receptor alpha (ERα)

ERα is coded by ESR1 while ERβ is coded by ESR2, what I am missing is why they don’t include ERβ in EIS, or maybe the study finding the ERβ change of BPA missed to find also changes in ERα

Anyways is fucked up to the core, the only thing I could do to solve this is having a machine that changes me at genetic level and fix it or go full natural and pray for a miracle of gene switching, since I don’t know if that is even possible

Open questions

  • How much BPA were my old melted retainers leaking? Do study
  • Could cells with bad genes die? maybe stem cell teraphy after 3 week waterfast to starve bad cells?
  • Is there any substance that switch the genes back in the position?
  • Are gene switch different from mutations? maybe gene switching is reversable but mutations are not that’s why some people seem to have permanent PFS while others recover with time, afraid my case is the former…

6 feb

I may be worsening by the day.

  • Muscle twitches increased although they only appear in my lower body
  • Joints are cracking a lot but no pain for the moment
  • Limbs are freezing cold, I am using gloves inside my house and a large coat
  • Not a single hair of my head has fallen since I had the crash when taking the high dose of BPA
  • arms hair are all blonde now and there’s been some heavy sheeding
  • Face skin and hair are at least a bit oily, those glands maybe are able to process DHT but Face skin has lot a shitton of collagen and I’ve aged like 10 years in 6 months.
  • Body skin is severely dry and absolutely pale
  • Hands veins became thinner
  • I’ve lost the ability to maintin an erection, I can recall weeks before that an electric numbness on my things and groin area when releasing pee and then weeks later dick is bend to the right and dead. I think these are the pudenals that died due to not able to process DHT so myelin was unable to keep repairing.
  • Cognitively I have still few bright moments
  • Sleep is a bit worse, I average 5h per night despite having a strict 22-7 bed schedule, when I get a lot of accumulated fatigue I sleep 7h but that does not seems sustainable. I’m pending to get a sleep tracker device so that I can give my GP sleep data which I believe is absolutely messed up.

At this point

  • I’ve already contacted several labs in hopes someone allows me to buy them a study on my melted retainers to check for the amount of BPA
  • I’ve asked my urologist and appointment to check for the dead penis, if he does not cooperates then I will go see a neurophisiologist and ask him to straight check my pudenal nerver through the same test Aquaris did.

I fear this shit is absolutely progressive, I fear how will be my state in say 2024 or 2025.
I don’t care anymore about sexual function
I don’t care anymore about being skin and bones
I don’t care anymore about my face degrading and looking like and old man in my 30-40’s
I don’t care anymore about not being able to have kids or have gf or build a family
To hell with all of that
I only, ONLY ask to be able to care for myself, even If I must endure a 70’s old lifestyle till I die I don’t want to feel pain, If unbearable pain for unbearable time is on my road I fear I won’t be able to go through it and I might take my life.

So I only ask god for two things, please allow me to keep my mind and my 70 yo body.

19 Feb23
Through the wild sea of a full 2nd crash

  • I’ve lost a ton of weight, 28 lbs since my first crash, It’s ok that I eat quite less due to low apetite due to not doing any physical activity other than walk, plus doing intermitent fasting but still how the fuck could I’ve lost 28 lbs in 8 months…
  • Sleep has gotten worse, I average 4h per night and then I fall asleep for 30 minutes a couple of times, in the very very few good nights God’s willing I am able to fall asleep again for 1h30min averaging 6h of sleep not sure about the quantity of deep sleep but afraid is very low. Any time I fall asleep I dream like crazy, I remember every single dream, on the first 4h I dream 2 times, signaling the ending of the sleep cycles which are 1h30m on average and after I wake up I remember perfectly those 2 dreams, this has never in my entire life happend. Then on those 30 min sleep periods I dream again and wake up without any kind of deep sleep. On the 1h30m sleep period I dream again and I wake up without suicide thoughs thanking God for allowing me to average 6h.
  • Twitchs and fragility overall increased, I did a 10km walk and next day left quad hurts it maybe damaged… I’ve also ran some dumbells on my biceps for 2x3x10 to see how they respond, they are sore as shit, we will see how my body handles that little exercise during next week and reasses to train again on weekends, during the week 5km walk is a need to keep blood flowing and God’s willing I will be able to do some calisthenics on weekends and recover by next week.
  • Prostate wise, someshit definetly happened down there that it was not in my first crash, I have pee urgencies that don’t belong with the quantity and strength of pee. Sometimes I just can’t pee for 6h and then do a middle to small pee. That’s not normal at all. I’ve even reduced night water intake to a single glass after dinner. By 9 pm no liquids enter my body. By 22 I try to pee although I don’t have the urgency. This allows me to not break my poor as shit current sleep state of 4h. I know that at 4h I will wake up and pee and there’s nothing I can do to avoid that, If I was able to fall asleep again for 4h I would be happy with that but that’s not the case. Not much I can do prostate wise. I drink all my water during the day and try to get cristal clear pee. At night it get’s really yellowish.
  • At the start of the crash masturbation-orgasm were at 2/10 intesity like in my first crash and triggered brain frog episodes that lasted 1 to 2 days. This does not happend anymore although intensity wise are the same.
  • Overall brain fog has been very very slowly getting better, I recall being able to have clarity periods that allow me to write, read and form complex thoughs although I need to really force myself to do that. Outside of those periods, complex thoughs just don’t happend and I am in a dumb state, I can’t even look at people in the face and have very difficult time following conversations. I pray this heals overtime.
  • Anhedonia wise it’s been madness. 0 everything at the start of the crash, now I recall being able to laugh and get emotional at a video or someshit but like a user said the emotions happend very very fast and then vanish. I still react to music althogh to a minor degree. Of course this can only happend in my clarity periods. On brain frog periods it’s just not possible, not even music does anything.
  • Tinnitus wise those come and go but are 1% of my daytime so although they scare me I thank and pray God to protect me from these.

So… well… This second crash I’ve mainly gotten worse on the neurological problems. That’s a fact.
Now I will list the difference from my first and second crash

Difference from 1st - 2nd Crashes

  • Duration: 1 Month of crash + 4 Months recovery vs ???
  • Sleep: 7-8h uninterrupted refreshing vs 4h-6h interrupted suicidal sleep (I pray to not get into the 2-3h hole some are)
  • Anhedonia: 5/10 vs 2/10
  • Masturbation orgasm: 5/10 vs 2/10
  • Dick strength: 90% vs 70%
  • Genital numbess: 0% vs I had some periods of numbness but they go away
  • Twiches: 2/10 vs 5/10
  • Appetite: 7/10 vs 3/10
  • Brain clarity: 6/10 vs 2/10
  • Libido: 3/10 vs 0/10
  • Cold Limbs: No vs Yes, hands and feet
  • Collagen lost: can’t recall vs Yes a shitton (will upload pics soon)
  • Swollen eyes: No vs Yes and they get worse by the day due to shit sleep
  • Suicidal thoughs: Only the first 3 weeks vs Constants (2 weeks into the 2nd crash)
  • Nails recovered: Yes vs No, getting more ridged (will upload pics soon)

Now I will list what the fuck I innocently did to induce this 2nd Crash (to my defense, I never new anything about PFS in the first place so maybe this 2nd Crash was written to happend)

May22 - Dec22

  • Diet was clean but contained dark chocolate, tofu one day per week and plenty of other bad AR things but I never noticed I was getting worse In fact on the contrary I felt I was recovering really nice during those 8 months, exercise wise everyday 5-10 km walk, well handled by the body.


  • Average sleep 8h
  • No pee problem
  • Same diet although removed dark chocolate and took some supplements
  • Vit E
  • Vit D3
  • Vit K2
  • Vit A
  • Zinc+Copper
  • L-Arginine
  • High potency Ginko
  • Folate (yes… it was the methyl from…)


  • Prostate pain
  • Pee problems
  • Average sleep 6h
  • Same diet plus suppl
  • Vit E
  • Vit D3
  • Vit K2
  • Magnesium
  • EAA
  • Marine Collagen supplement


  • Prostate discomfort
  • Pee problems increased
  • Average sleep 4h + Dream like crazy
  • Anhedonia in full
  • Brain fog
  • Lost ability to socialise
  • Muscle twitches increased
  • Lost of collagen increased
  • etc etc

So I think any experienced ones will rapidly notice what I did wrong.
I am really like really scared to have messed up my very few working Brain AR receptors but it’s fucking madness this could even happend from very few supplements even knowing I was recovering so well from my first crash…

I don’t have any plan other than remove all the supplements and stay on the same diet I did May22-Dic22 without the dark chocolate and tofu, I think I need to be very cautios with AR foods from now on.
I pray to God than I am able to return to my 1st Crash state doing the same I did in my 1st Crash. I know this could take time, I’m only at my 3 week mark post crash but hell… my 3rd week mark post 1st Crash was HEAVEN compared to this.

I have already a really clean sleep schedule plus the liquid intake is optimized, Is there here anyone who can give me an advice on sleep? Will it get better overtime? Maybe microdosing sleep pills is a good idea?

I now I wrote on some users stories like Damon, hopefull post, but hell I now that I am going to a higher degree of suffering from PFS I am able to understand better very severe ones like Damon, axo or Lazarus and I now have changed opinion and think it is reasonable for one to put and end to the suffering when it gets to the point of less than 3h sleep per night.

If I was able to wish for a thing, please God please, fix my sleep, let me sleep 6-7h again please please only that. I don’t mind the brain frog, I don’t mind the anhedonia I don’t mind the dick my skin my bones my muscles… to hell with all of those but please my sleep, allow me to have restfull sleeps again.

From here

  • Appoint the BPA analisis (I am already in contact with labs it’s 150€ per test so all that’s left is to appoint the day)
  • Appoint urologist and do a prostate check
  • Psychologist appointed on the 24 Feb
  • Specialist appointed on the 1 of March
  • Neurologist appointed on the 23d of March
  • Appoint my GP to update timeline
  • Remove Tofu + no chocolate
  • Remove all kind of supplements (fuck em at least for an entire Month to see how I evolve)
  • Add Foam rolling to help blood flow recovery on limbs after walks
  • Add streching sessions (don’t be agressive)
  • Add Kefir to improve gut
  • Add Kombucha to improve gut
  • Increase Vitamin C intake doing Orange Juice x2 times a day
  • Increase my current Weight through increasing food intake and start to do calisthenics on the weekends, lower walks from 10km to 5km
  • When I am stable add Whey protein shake to see if I can at least tolerate that

Considering removing intermitent fasting

On a side note when I was recovering through my first crash twice a week I would have cheat days where I ate dark chocolate, potato chips and soda along with meals. I even took some walnuts.

All those things specially dark chocolate are supposed to fuck with PFS, specially severe PFS but they never did a thing on my recovery state, things just kept going nice and smoothly.

It is really madness for me to believe how a couple of vits + ginko + some collagen broke hell loose on a whole new scale.

I am avoiding all supplements from now on until very hopefully my body figures out how to return to my 1st post crash state, however there’s an exception to this, If I am not able to sleep smooth for 5-6h before end of month I may give up and ask GP to give me sleeping pills. I just can’t go through the entire of March with this horrible sleep pattern, with the crazy dreams, the panic attacks and the suicidal feelings when waking up.

Just checked which ginko I took

High potency one, equivalent to 200mg of the active ingredient for 3 days then stopped cold turkey
Interesting thing is that while muscle wastage, collagen loss increased from that very week Insomnia and the other neurological problems came by in small steps like I was sleeping 7-8h on the Dec weeks I took the ginko and then 6-7h on Jan and started to feel anxious, could not focus etc, and then 5-6 at the start of February (this is where the dreaming pattern changed in full) and then to 4h average today.

Ginko is a potent AR downregulation… I’ve fucked up big time… My body was in a bearable state of living, I could sleep 8-9h no problem I was somewhat motivated and hopefull although a bit scared due to the muscle collagen sexual disfunction problems so that’s why I bought ginko prior of knowing about PFS and the rest is history.

The only good thing I could find is that while they found Ginko potently downregulates AR density, it does not mess with 5a reductase nor DHT, at least that’s what they said.
My neurological sympthons which have worsened in full too say the opposite but it could be due to another GABAminergic path I am not aware off.

I pray God whatever is downregulated has not been epigentically hipermethilated allowing my body to achieve post PFS baseline through homeostasis, that would be heaven on earth even with all the wastage, collagen loss limp dick

@axolotl You may find this data useful

My crash (2nd) is going worse and I hope to find a baseline soon:

Things that came in paralel, all of them started slow and then increased in severity on par. I’ve never experienced any of them before (not in my entire life nor my first crash):

Insomnia: Inhability for my mind to stay asleep, dreaming like crazy, went from 7-8h to 5-6h to 4-5h to 3-4h to 2-3h. After the block of sleep I am often unable to go back to sleep again and If I go sleep again it is only for periods of 30 to 1h, dreaming everything. I must have almost no deep sleep. I have yet to measure properly this data with a device I am expecting to get from 6-10 march. When I was in the 2-3h range I was completey suicidal afraid if I were there more than 1 week I would’ve terminated myself.
I’m currently at 3-4h and if lucky I get a +2h block and then a couple of 30m block. I have yet to measure this precisely however. To manage this I try to stay device free by 22h and then just try to write things on a notebook but just whatever I like to write, no goal nor daily activity related. I just do poetry for instance or just draw like I was 5yo. I do this to minize stress before sleep.

Memory problems: Short, Med, Long term memory are affected, specially Short term. I am currently forcing myself to do exercises of watching YT videos of 30mish of many kind of ancient Spanish works and then I write on a paper details like the name of the town, the name of the officer the name of the tools and how they were used, the hours of procedures etc. I fail and fail and fail and currently there seems to be no improvement in here.

Focus: is lost like I have a severe attention deficit. Unhability to follow simple conversations or do simple tasks like checking-answering email, or performing a goal focused task.

Strange “pressure/hollow felling” at the back on my head: that renders me basically unable to perform minimal cognitive process. Thinking, remebering anything, talking with people, even my own internal monolgue is severely affected. During these periods I am unable to handle any kind of stress even If I am just sitting alone dinning something I find delicios and watching tv or yt whatever I am doing when these attacks come ANYTHING makes me uncomfortable, like I am unable to keep exististing and on track with reality. I FUCKING HATE THESE. They come and go but leave me exhausted. I have yet to find a pattern but they definelty appear to be highly probable during/after eating. Today I was attack free until at 16h during the digestion of lunch and then from 16h to 20h I had them come and go. At 20h I had one during dinning and at 21h I had a pretty big long lasting one just before writting all of this.

Extreme constipation: 8-9 days without bowel movements, bloating of digestive aparatus, I am currently using glicerine suppositories and on an herbal laxative called “Laxsen” containing mostly Senna (this is what makes you shit) or something like that (30%) it works and I am able to evacuate within 6-12h. However Laxsen also contains another herb that is an 5ar inhibitor so I would proceed with caution. First thing in the morning I take a cup of hot water with Laxen and then introduce the suppository and refrain from any shitting sensation until the glicerin disolves. By the 2nd hour I shit the volume of a fist and then by the 10h o shit the volume of two fists. My stools are green but sometimes appear yellowish also the smell is definetly different althouth it still smells like shit. If I go all natural I get bloated at day 7 and at day 8 start to feel like rocks under my ass like @Dknighten describred sometimes, specially when I stay sit so to relief from the rocks sensation I mostly stand up during the day and only sit to eat and after dinner. With the rocks feeling inside of my anus I also feel a pulsation. This only happends when my digestive system goes extremely bloated at day 7-8 without bowel movements.
Currently I had natural bowel movements at day 7 without the use of laxative but they were extremely weak and it took me a handful of them to make me shit naturally. However despite being bloated I found extremely difficult to shit and the stool came out very thin. The volume was of a fist so that was not terrible at least but yeah, something is going on with my rectum like it was tight. Anyhow the shit was really smooth so my diet is at least allowing me to not throw rock-like stool.

Anhedonia: I had previously this one in my first crash but now It was increased in severity and peaks durring hollow head attacks. At least I am able to still feel music (at say 10%) but only when I am attack free for a long period of time and somewhat rested. Any other basic emotion asidde from sadness and laugh (they feel however extremely extremely low) is still missing.

It is the first time experiencing this. They started since beggining of Feb and increased in severity. I am unable to comprehend how the collagen peptides, vitamins, aminoacids could have created these issues out of thin air. Maybe my old baseline was damaged via estrogen path due to the high potency ginko I took in december and this was foretold to happend anytime.

I know collagen peptides (offnote* could all my new issues be GABA related???) are terrible for PFS and some users suicided after taking them I fear for my shitty state to be permament and I pray for my body to recover even if it is 1%/year, whatever kind of recovery I will gladly take it. I just don’t want to be permamently like this where I can only function for a handfull hours a day and the rest is just zombie surviving.

Currently I honestly just want out. I pray to find a baseline and that with diet and avoiding triggers little by little I am able to sleep again decently then there maybe an opportunity for my constipation to relief a bit and for the neurological problems to relief too.

I pray God.

Hi, sudosudo, im also from Spain my brother! :).

I also have short memory problems. Cant see TV or read books. Are you under benzos or other drugs that involve GABA receptors? In my case i know 100% sure that my problems with memory are related to benzos withdrawal.

For the constipation i recommend you low fodmap diet. Eat a lot of Fiber (low fodmap), drink a lot of water and try to move. You Will improve your stools if you drink kéfir and yougurt without lactosa. I had the same issues and my stools Went from yellowish to Brown (and with normal odor). I would avoid using to mucho laxatives.

Stay strong my friend!

1 Like

Oh my god this night was the absolute worst.
I did the same as everyother day, the dinner was not anything meaninfull either and I was relaxed and calm however, I just could not even fall asleep. I just can’t comprehend, I was fully wired from 23 to 3am , then I felt asleep and woke up at 4:30 am after racing dreams, then I felt again asleep at 4:50 and woke up at 7:10, and then I felt asleep for 1h more.

The day before I had a night were I felt asleep rapidly as always, then got a block of 4h of sleep then I did two blocks of 2h and 1:30h of sleep. It was more than nice considering the severity of insomnia.

I just can’t comprehend how there is this kind of difference between two consecutive nights maintaining everything almost the same. Is it the diet? should I aim to replicate the “better” nights diet? I recall that 1h before sleep I just had a massive hollow head attack and I was left in a shitty state albeit being calm. Maybe the hollow heads attack precede a zombie night. I did not have these on the day before night.

I must find a pattern to achieve the 4h sleep block nights or I will be put on meds or suicide. @axolotl have you found any kind of patterns for “better” nights?

Also as of today I am now 27 days into moderate to severe insomnia and my automatic breathing is lost. I am struggling now to manually keep my breating.

@Dknighten did you recall messed up breating from your 1st crash? or since insomnia started by any chance? I am trying to find a pattern and find hope in the possibility of breathing and other neurological issues fixing if I manage to ease my insomnia. Thank you brother.