curious to know how many guys here get shitty sleep and how their sleep has been affected from all of this. i know for one i dont sleep the same way etc etc and i dont just mean waking up tired i mean the fact that my whole sleep process is off, hence i dont dream anymore and i dont hit stage 4 sleep which is imperative for deep tissure repair.
My sleep has been completely screwed up since about August 2006 (when I went to the ER feeling like I was dying, was diagnosed with panic disorder, and it only went away after I stopped taking fin)
It got better about 6-8 months after quitting, but now it’s been 15-16 months off, and I feel like I’m plummeting into poor health again. As of right now, I have felt dizzy/faint/confused/tired/insomniac for the past 24 hours. Also, my chest/heart are having some symptoms.
I like to chalk all this stuff up to “another panic attack”, but it’s scary because the symptoms always feel a little bit different.
But… yeah. No matter how much I want to sleep, and how exhausted I think I am, I can’t seem to fall asleep until 3 am or so. For a little while I was taking herbal/supplemental remedies to help (melatonin and valerian/passion-flower) but it scares me a little bit to do that, plus I would wake up feeling groggy and disoriented, so I only use them in rare and extreme circumstances now.
I do, however, find that GABA supplements help… especially when I get jittery/anxiety/panic (which almost always gets worse at night, because it is probably related to hormone levels which shift/drop throughout the day)
Everything I’ve read claims that GABA doesn’t work, because it can’t cross the blood-brain barrier, but the kinds I have used really seem to work like a charm (about as good as the alprazolam - Xanax - prescription I had); they had niacinamide to help absorption/blood-brain crossing, so maybe that was the reason why… I don’t know.
Right now all I know is that, if I’m tired during the day, the only thing that gives me a nice boost and “regulates” me without making me crack out is matcha green tea (definitely no coffee); and in the evenings, GABA seems to help calm and relax me and DIM capsules seem to work if I feel like I have too much estrogen going on…
I would say my sleep is all wrong. I wake up tired and dream alot - often nightmares. I try to go to bed early like 10pm but i’m really not sure if i get refreshing sleep. I often just want to carry on sleeping in the morning and even then i wake up tired although a bit better. Stage 4 sleep could be what i need. Since my testosterone levels seem ok i would even suspect sleep to be the root of my problems. Perhaps GHB/Xyrem is not such a bad idea. It is well known that depressed patients and those with chemical imbalances have poor quality sleep. A chicken egg scenario can occur.
My sleep is totally F…ed. I can’t get into deep sleep and always feel tired no mater what I do. I’m simply existing at this point…
Melatonin worked for a few months, as did Valerian. I find that I can only use these things 1 or 2 times before taking a week off to keep my body sensitized.
Regardless I’m always tired and feel like sleeping but don’t get good sleep.
Ever since Fin, I rarely remember dreams . . . if I’m having them.
For years i said that i didn’t remember my dreams. I would honestly remember a dream once every 4 or 5 months. Im still like that to this day. Interesting that propecia might do that aswell. lol
I had this problem extremely bad. After several fasts and a very strict diet along with intense exercise, it is now gone. I can actually feel a drug like feeling come over me when it’s time to sleep. I went without it for years though, taking ambien for almost three years everynight to sleep. I now dream very vividly and everynight.
Ive tried trazodone (works well except hangover), remeron(hated it), rozerem(not really working as well as id like), valerian(worked okay), gnc formula w various herbs(need to try again but worked okay). I am seeing my psych in a week. I wont get on ambien. But i really want better sleep. Cant tell if anxiety causes my insomnia, insomnia causes amxiety, but they seem to go hand in hand. When i sleep good, anxiety is low the next morning.
be careful bud, that stuff is all very heavy … i had mind blowing sleep issues for a long, long time, and you know what actually helped? braggs apple cider vinegar … just a tiny bit a little before bed, and certainly not dangerous … if you have not tried it, it may be worth a shot … in my opinion, always try natural routes before going to meds, because that shit is just dangerous … you will feel better
Mine has actually been more or less the same unless I’m super stressed. Of course that could always take a nose dive.
Yea, i tried the vinegar. Dont know if it helped but i will pick some up tomorrow to see. Couldnt hurt me.
I sleep only few hours / week since a long time. No dream, only light sleep.
Stopped Propecia 4 years ago.
Sleep disturbances started with Propecia.
I have bad, vivid dreams most of the time. And wake up alot.
I have the most insane insomnia. I have resorted to taking benedryl in large doses to knock me out…A lot of times that foesnt even work. Even if I do sleep, it is not deep and I have not had1 dream in 18 months. When I am at my worst I can go 48 hours without 1 hour of sleep. Even if i work a double shift and exercise and I am exhausted, i still cant get to sleep at night. So horrible and debilitating. My sleep issues have been almost as damaging to my quality of life as my sexual and physical issues.
If its that bad, a sleep medicine should be prescribed. No reason to suffer if your insomnia hasnt improved no matter what. Trazodone, remeron… just a suggestion. I started back on mine, i thought i could do without it. But i just cant go without sleep. My body needs sleep to heal and i need sleep to function at school.
I spend currently whole nights without sleeping more than few minutes (same situation since 4 years and Propecia that has been taken during 3 months)
When I sleep 30-60 min a night (between 5 & 6 am for example), I’m happy. Most of the time, it is 0 min.
No need to mention that the dreaming step is never achieved in such short duration of sleep.
Isocort and cortef help my sleep 100x.
5htp and melatonin make it worse
Valerian doesnt do much.
i have tried so many things. this short list is incomplete:
various pharms
various gaba transaminase inhibitors (ashwagandha, lemon balm, passionflower, etc.)
relora
neurotransmitters/precursors (tryptophan, gaba, etc.)
so much magnesium (usually go with glycinate)
casein peptides
many different encapsulations of melatonin
valerian, duh
mj
hops, skullcap, other herbs
inositol
glutamine
bovine hypothalamus glandular
etc
etc
…
still meaning to try glycine, phenibut, and gheeb
i usually combine magnesium with hypothalamus, sometimes ashwagandha (thanks to a shrink, i have gaba tolerance problems; oh joy!) with milk peptides, sometimes with melatonin. inositol combines nicely with these, the only real thing that will keep me through all night. have to cycle everything except the Mg. sometimes i’ll puff and pass out but it wears off before appropriate morning arousal time, and i don’t mean boners.
I cant remember who on the forum suggested it, but OTC doxylamine succinate works very well. In the US its under the label Unison. Make certain to read the label, its the doxylamine succinate that works the best. I wanted to thank whomever mentioned it on this site, but couldnt find the post.
It good for once or twice a week for me, sometimes Ill take another one in the middle of the night.
The things that have helped my sleep the most are fish oil with a high concentration of EPA (425 mg), zinc (25 mg of the cheap zinc gluconate), magnesium (250 mg), and Calcium. I usually take the fish oil every day mid afternoon. It has helped a lot with mental function. I have to stress again to get a high quality fish oil with high EPA. I’ve tried other cheap Wal Mart brands and there is a very noticeable difference in how it affects me. The other items I cycle at night. Try Caltrate + D and minerals. It has all of the minerals I mentioned along with boron with is also good for testosterone. Tart cherry juice is high in melatonin. I also drink a few ounces before bed and it helps. I’ve sworn off sleeping pills. The hangover is worse than being tired.