Heroin withdrawal... an unlikely treatment?

Hey guys, I actually used to post on here with another name but… I decided I oughta make a new name so you guys don’t judge me.

Okay so here’s my story, at the age of 19 I tried taking propecia for only a short time, but it ruined my libido, persisting a very long time. I tried sustain alpha and diesel test and all that with limited results. Yeah so okay, I got my good days and I got my bad. I think the worst part is the lack of confidence having this sorta problem causes.

Okay fast forward a little bit, I’m 20 years old and I meet a pretty lass 18 years of age. For the short amount of time I’ve known this girl I very much get the impression she could quite possibly be the love of my life. She likes me too, possibly even more than I like her, so everything is awesome, so the night comes and she’s all prettied herself up and whatnot, and I’ve got myself a couple drinks in me and the time comes when I go as far as to smoothly and succesfully get her to be alone with me and it’s the “moment” to start kissing and making out if you know what I mean. If I could go back t this night I would not have had a single drink of alcohol and I probably would have successfully gotten into her bedroom and made things happen with probably 50/50 chance of success.

Of course after all this happening I get a stream of unreturned phone calls. Alright well, as you can imagine this event sends me into a whole world of negative feelings, and it’s not like I was the happiest person to begin with. I also live alone in an apartment and sitting around at night all by myself I get a whole bunch of negative thoughts crowding my head and haunting me. Thoughts of lowered self-esteem, regret, self-loathing, pain, etc. I first experimented heroin when I sniffed it back when I was about 17 or so. I didn’t really enjoy it much back then, and I hated how I got sick if I did it for more than a couple days straight. Heroin’s the kind of drug that doesn’t really hook you unless you’re a person with a lot of negative shit going on your head. It dulls all your feelings, and if you’re in a pretty good place mentally you find it unnecessary.

Another thing that kept me off heroin, is that getting a hold of it involves going to the ghetto and basically finding a black dude whose standing on the street to sell it to you. Doing this sort of thing is possibly the most unnerving thing in my life. I’m not so much afraid of getting shot or robbed, but moreso of getting pulled over by a squad car or detective around the corner and getting felony charges on myself. Okay well anyways, I get i contact with my neighbors from back at my parents house, two scumbag addict brothers, one of which doesn’t shower all that much. Since these guys have been addicts for years they have dealers to call on the cellphone who will meet them up in non-ghetto parts of Chicago. This way it’s basically like buying pot, and I have never been arrested for having pot in my life. To top it off, these dealers sell their stuff in supplement capsules instead of the usual tin foils, so the stuff is easily swallowable if I was going to get pulled over.

Well I start off doing it on and off to make sure I don’t get sucked in, but one thing leads to another and before I know it I’ve moved on from sniffing about 10 or 20 dollars worth every 3 or 4 days or so to shooting up 5 or 6 bags every single day. Other than my newfound ease of acquiring the stuff, another reason I got addicted like this is that the two addict brothers would sell me the subutex (buprenorphine) pills that their therapists gave them which is supposed to ease withdrawal, while I was doing it about 4-5 days at a time the subutex basically eliminated all withdrawals. But after shooting 3-6 bags every day for about 2 months, I was going to feel the withdrawal no matter what, and I didn’t have enough pills to make me not feel it. The fact that I quit also has a lot to do with my mom finding out about my habit which was something tough.

It’s really amazing, I am finally clean and sober while I am typing this, but going through withdrawals, regardless of how much pain and suffering I was in, I was getting a ridiculous amount of erections. And right now as I’ve finally gotten through the withdrawals, I feel like I’m 13 again and popping erections left and right, more than I know what to do with, even after jacking off like 3 times in a day, even after I’m all dried up. It’s like I’m going through puberty again and rediscovering myself haha.

Believe it or not, this is scientifically legit too, just read the following forum thread from the bluelight forums: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=406860. I actually really suggest ANYONE reading my post to read the bluelight thread as they talk about mechanisms of sexual arousal other than just testosterone, there are other, quite possibly equally as or even more important chemicals in your body that have to do with arousal and erections. One important thing I noticed is how someone posted about exciting your sympathetic nervous system. I really do wonder if there’s ways to replicate these mechanisms without doing heroin. Maybe someone who is here can look into it.

The old saying goes that heroin is a tough horse to ride, and that is definitely true. I can’t say I condone this, but if you want to try it out I would think you have to do H every day for a minimum of a full 2 weeks(14 days) every day with no breaks, I hate to say this but I think the longer you might be addicted the more there’s a chance of a libido burst during withdrawal. I doubt it’ll matter much if you sniff or shoot it, both methods cause chemical dependency. Once you have set a good day to begin your home detox, you may want to get a hold of a therapist or doctor who can prescribe you subutex or suboxone pills, they can help a lot and ease the pain, I’m not totally sure how much they have a potential of reducing your libido during withdrawal, but I took dosages that were enough to make the withdrawals somewhat bearable after the first 2 days yet still retain my libido. During this time I guess it might not hurt to use some sustain alpha to give an even greater boost to all the “feel-good” chemical production rebounding into your body, hell take the full testosterone recovery stack. After enduring about 4 full days of withdrawal (you don’t start feeling better until you’ve been withdrawling for 72 hours which is 3 days) I took one low dose cheat shot of H just because I couldn’t bear it and I hadn’t slept one bit, and tada, no withdrawals once the effects of H wore off, hell I didn’t even enjoy the shot it just made me feel normal, it is CRITICAL to wait at least 3 days before a cheat shot (this is a trick that NO drug counselor will ever tell you about).

Now, as to acquiring it. I live in the Chicago area so all I’ve ever seen is mostly white, sometimes slightly tannish snortable powder which can also be cooked in a spoon with water for injection, and then the cooked fluid is sucked up off the spoon when the needle tip is inserted into a tiny ball of cotton. I’ve never seen black tar heroin in my life, and that stuff you can only smoke on a tin foil or inject, to inject black tar requires using an acidic liquid to cook with such as orange juice, as crazy as that sounds. I have never shared a needle in my life, and I re-use needles that I’ve used as rarely as possible. I live in a state that fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, sells insulin syringes over the counter at any pharmacy like walgreens or CVS for 2.50$ for a pack of 10 syringes. Being someone who still holds a level of self-respect I also used alcohol pads to clean up the area of injection before injecting.

Like I said I live in chicago, and if you also live around chicago, acquiring heroin basically involves taking a cruise down I-290 and getting off an exit like cicero or independence, and then cruising the side streets where african american dealers will basically yell out to your car if you are white. These guys might sell other drugs like crack or weed too, but the slang term for H is “blows” and one bag or “blow” costs 10 dollars. I get the feeling the cicero area has more cops and is overall more ghetto, but the whole chicago westside area seems to have more regular white people cruising through the area than it did in 2003, I think cause some city gentrification has been going on. Generally, the younger guys are more likely to rip you off and sell you empty bags, so I think the dudes that look like they’re older than 20 are more likely to be legit.

I think that if you live nearby a sort of urban metropolitan center, chances are that ghetto streets exist where they sell hard drugs publically. The general process is they yell out to your car, the drugs are usually not on the guy on the street, but will be fetched for you upon inquiry. Hell there are internet websites, some of them cop websites, that tell you where they sell this shit. Some example neighborhoods would be North Philadelphia, and the Bronx in New York City.

There is risk, and a whole lot of pain involved in this method. But it has worked for me, and it also makes sense to me that it actually involves chemicals other than testosterone.

I’ve never seen or even heard of anyone having any GHB in my life, and I read about how GHB has been used to cure the problems. Something kinda tells me that GHB might actually work better since you can actually wean that shit off, but if you want a libido burst with H, you pretty much have to endure the pain of cessation. I don’t condone this shit to anyone, but I will tell you that withdrawal raising libido is a fact.

Precisely and neither do I. Sometimes the “cure” is worse than the “disease”.

Look, heroin is no joke, it is one of the hardest drugs one can take… while you may have experienced a surge after coming off, does NOT mean people here should all of a sudden start going and shooting up.

Appreciate your feedback on your experience but we cannot condone this type of talk around here man… this is almost up there with another user’s postings on chlamydia pneumonia in trying to get people to do something extremely harmful to themselves to try and see if they’ll have any positive effects.

Anyone that wants to try shooting up with heroin just for the sake of “testing” is not looking out for their health… but thanks for your post irregardless. The information is available for anyone that wishes to follow this “path”.

So, would you say that you are cured, or that you found TEMPORARY relief and things have went back to the way they were?

maybe this thread should be locked
advising people an addictive illegal drug is a potential cure is a bad idea

locked or not… it s just an idea of what the problem could be… so i think this post could help to find out what the problem could be… 4 sure i think noone been an adult man will go on heroine…we r not children .

you don’t know how desperate some people on here may be
depression can cause irrational behaviours , a post like this may tip someone over the edge

It s true ,it s an hard decicision if lock it or not and it s not my position to decide it,anyway it really could be a new point of view about our problem,from where ppl could start new treatments (not heroine treat) -

Im using ghb and I m recovering for now…I can understand what that heroine boy means in his post .

Anyway I dn t want to judge if it has to be locked or not…for sure i ll never go on heroine .

I don’t think it shoud be locked because it sheds light on some mechanism of action that somehow regulates sexual function. I think it is dangerous and ridiculous, but valuable in its own right. Any bit of information that sheds light on the workings of the sexual system could be of use to us. You never know who’s reading or studying this and these ideas could spark other ideas that may someday help us. You never know.

Hey guys I’ve been totally clean since christmas, I think libido has gone down a bit, but I think this is conditional and normal since I’ve been jacking off. I would still say that without a doubt my erections are reliably. I’m past the really really tough shakes and sweats withdrawal part, but I still feel like I’m at the tail end of my recovery as I feel irritable and restless and I have a bit of difficulty going to sleep and staying asleep. I am thinking perhaps I should take a diesel test that I have leftover.

One thing that’s a bummer is that I learned today off the internet that something like 60-80% of drug injection users in the united states and 2/3 of injection drug users in canada are infected with hepatitis C. I have never ever shared a needle with anyone, except for one time where the syringe was submerged in bleach for about 5 whole minutes to absolutely kill off any possibly pathogens within it, but I got to find out that hepatitis C can actually live on surfaces. I’m gonna have to go get a blood analysis done so I can hopefully put my worries at ease. I honestly doubt I have hepatitis C since I am a hygienic person and I used alcohol pads and everything, but these are some scary statistics that I don’t think the public is made aware of as much as they should be and should be enough to keep anyone from injecting. You can even get hepatitis C from sharing a dollar bill to snort drugs with someone who is infected, but this seems pretty unlikely to me unless the guy’s had a nosebleed or something. I am also part of and surrounded by people of the demographic who are less likely to have hepatitis C and much less likely to have HIV, which I know I don’t have since as I’ve recently learned an HIV infection actually has symptoms that appear shortly after getting infected of which I experienced none. So if you must use hard drugs sniff it instead of IVing it.

I also noticed this post was moved here from the recoveries section, at first I thought Mew deleted it, but I guess it makes sense since this isnt the most legitimate recovery method. Mew, I commend you for being a bold man and not deleting my post and providing more data as far as chemical mechanisms such as those involving endorphins are concerned was one of my goals. I believe neurotransmitters like endorphins, dopamine, serotonin, and acetylcholine are all important factors in sexual function.

If you look at the poster of the thread on the bluelight forum the guy even says he’d like to one day formulate something that could reproduce the mechanism I experienced during heroin withdrawal without the negative aspects of withdrawal of course.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=406860

Edit: Upon lightly touching myself a little bit after this post it is safe to say that I have a 100% reliable ability to get an erection.

The only reason why this thread is still alive is because of the discussion about opiates, which may play a role in sexual function.

idmu.co.uk/opiatesex.htm

However, the overall consensus is that opiate-agonists (morphine, heroin)surpress libido and sexual function.

On the other hand, opiate-antagonists like Naltrexone (used by Dr Shippen as a treatment option) have been documented to increase spontaneous/morning erections in men: andrologyjournal.org/cgi/con … t/14/6/407

At this stage however, I would prefer if you do not discuss heroin useage itself any further, as it is most certainly a very harmful and addictive ILLEGAL drug.

If you want to discuss in general opiate antagonists/agonists and their effects on sexual function via citation of medical research, by all means… that would be far more productive.

Thanks.

While, as many have already stated, I don’t suggest developing any sort of addiction to an illicit substance to test this out, I do find it interesting the neuroscience aspect of what is occurring.

If you read on the forum (and do further research), you’ll note that Prolactin increases during opiate usage (as opiate receptors are filled, dopamine production is ceased/inactivated, and prolactin spikes). So when coming off, dopamine starts to pick up its pace and creates, effectively, a huge release of dopamine (counteracting prolactin, being one of dopamine’s main functions) pours into the brain, which in effect influences test production and oxytocin production.

This is interesting to analyze, as it shows that in Opiate-induced sexual dysfunction the brain chemistry is the culprit of the sexual dysfunction. In addition to this, if we take into consideration SSRI sexual dysfunction, the neurotransmitters are also the culprits of the dysfunction.

Thanks for the post–and good luck on the road to recovery. I wish you all the best and I am glad you have a support system to help you through this!

Pain dude,
how long did u have your Propecia side Effects for before H?

And did u have erection problems like the most of us?

What, did u take H like two years after??

Let us know

I had side effects totally like how most of the people have described. Low libido, erectile dysunfction, sub-par erections that don’t last etc. etc.

And this is seriously the only thing thats truly brought me back to normal.

I’m sure there has to be a way to emulate what happened to me without having to go through the horrible pains of withdrawal.

I also recently got tested for hepatitis and HIV since I shared spoons (not needles) and I got to find out that apparently theres a small chance of acquiring a disease that way.

I tested negative for all forms of hepatitis and HIV, but oddly enough on my CBC I had elevated AST/ALT levels. This is odd since heroin doesn’t affect the liver badly like alcohol does, maybe it might be some of the stuff the dope was cut with? Or… what if this has something to do with the finasteride side effects? To me it sounds like a longshot, I will have to do a follow-up CBC soon, I could care less about getting my hormone levels checked, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

Post a user profile if you don’t mind…

How long did you have ED and sexual dysfunctions for?
And now you are completely recovered??

We would all like to hear a slightly detailed yet even if its a quick rundown, one-liners even, if possible…eg…
-took Propecia for 3 month
-stopped…had ED and prostate pain for 6-7 month after.
-approx 14 month after, still no morning wood, started doing H.
-was on H for 3 month
ETC…

Hey guys interesting little article here:

http://www.primordialperformance.com/vbulletin/educational-articles/331-opioid-modulation-preventing-aas-induced-hpta-suppression.html

Honestly I don’t think your guys’s problems are as complex and unsolvable as you might make it out to be.

Just remember that just about every process in the body is a balancing act of homeostasis which involves chemicals and receptors and the levels of them.

Sometimes the receptors might shrivel a bit, such as those in testes, hypothalamus, pituitary, etc. But it IS possible to bring them back.

I’m glad this article was not removed. I think if we start censoring plausible arguments because they are controversial, we would have to remove 75% of the threads in this forum. I am surprised to find that no one has drawn the parallel between a possible heroin induced recovery and the fact that continued use of morphine increases 5ARII activity.

This is quoting MEW from a couple weeks ago on "Newbie needs help with HPTA restart (+ My Story):

As far as I know, there have only been a few things that have been identified on this forum with the purported ability to increase 5ARII. Possibly Choline, Morphine and a stomach antibiotic.

Pain Management: Were sexual side effects the only side effects you were really suffering from at this point? If they were not, were they the only side effects affected positively by this unusual “treatment”. Please elaborate your specific side effects and how much of a return to normalcy you felt with regard to each side effect.

Mew: I have only come across two stories where someone in this forum attempts increasing 5ARII activity (inadvertently in one case). One of them is Pain Management’s use of morphine, albeit in an uncontrolled format (heroin use). The other is Kermangd’s use of phosphatidylcholine seen here:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1904

Both of them claim considerable success. What are your feeling/thoughts on the issue of increasing 5ARII activity? In the thread about Dr. Crisler’s posts he recently said:

What do you think?

I found this interesting study that showed very good results in the use of choline mixed with something called TROXERUTINE to treat ED. The article is old (believe it states it was filed in 1995) and the solution seemed to be custom mixed for the test, but the results look very good. Anyway the results seem to backup choline use for ed/low libido.

freepatentsonline.com/EP0722323.html

Also found this website that is selling DHT tablets. Does anyone think this is legitimate? Has anyone tried dht tablets?

elitebody.cart.net.au/details/2148518.html

Hey guys I am doing good and I’m no longer using heroin.

And no I did not OD I am still alive and well and losing my hair hah

I really do mean it that if you go through a cold turkey detox, the results, at least in my case, do stay with you.

Hey Pain Management:

Glad to hear you continue to do well. I sent you a private message. Also, Boston as well as myself have asked kind of a brief summary of timelines that include list of symptoms, when you started heroin, when you felt recoveries and what symptoms did you recover from? Just a quick run-down of your history. I think this will enrich the conversation thread.

this thread actually made me laugh…wtf heroin is the answer!?
let me rephrase… something which the fda will never approve and probably the most dangerous drug out there someone is willing to try to recover from a drug which the fda approved and calls safe…
this makes me laugh in agreement of how bullshit the fda is and how badly this drug fucked people up!