Help! Could someone explain how cordyceps fucked me up?

Therapeutic Efforts
#1

I really, really fucked up and I really need your help. I am the biggest idiot here, prime example of what not to do here. Repeating the same mistake of taking weird shit without even the most rudimentary research. My ADD brain and desperation to fix my insomnia after months of demolished sleep triggered by cacao nibs led me down a terrifying path.

This is what I took two nights ago: Two capsules of Oriveda Cordyceps C+

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Now my already severe insomnia is made even worse. I’d jolt up wide awake from my sleep from half an hour of sleep. Baclofen 10 mg doesn’t even help much. I have constant palpitations similar to when I was worsened by the cacao nibs.

I would really appreciate any help in figuring out the implications of what I did with taking cordyceps.

https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/0018-506x(87)90030-4

#2

I can’t tell you exactly what it did, but just relax and I’m sure your body will bounce back soon, friend. Stop researching and reading, and just relax. Read books to relax at night, do some light exercise and yoga, and just eat well while avoiding the 5ari foods.

I think you’ll bounce back to your PFS baseline and this will pass :slight_smile:

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#3

It is difficult to say if there would be a method to reverse the effect of cordyceps even if you did have a reasonable explanation of how it worsened your condition.

I had a similar horrifying experience with SAMe and B12. To this day, I can’t say with any certainty how this happened, only that it has happened to others who don’t suffer from PFS or PAS. It took over a year, but the effects did finally pass.

Please hang in there. If I was in your position, the last thing I would do is fight fire with fire by adding more risky supplements into the mix. No need to beat yourself up over trying something in desperation. I think we have all done it.

A quick guess is that you are feeling a stimulant effect from uridine and it will wear off within a few days at most.

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#4

Many mushrooms appear to have hormonal activity, for example

or
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0968089607003549

In any case, my advice would be to steer well clear of anything that contains mushrooms and certainly don’t eat any either. Dump that bottle in the trash, give it some time and you should return to baseline in the near future.

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#5

Oh my God! These days, I’ve been in the mountains with my uncles. We ate mushrooms every day. There, I developed strong insomnia and tendon pains. It could have been mushrooms. I’ve eaten a lot of them. I didn’t know they were anti-androgens! I thought it depended on the TRT, instead the endocrinologist told me that my dosage is so low that it is difficult to cause these annoyances. I again fell into a horrible spiral of anxiety and depression. I feel really bad.

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#6

I’m sorry to hear this.

As @awor notes many mushrooms are proven to have 5ari and antiandrogenic effects. I found this out after a severe and profound worsening. This is my experience:

I experienced what you describe as well as hot flushes and sweats, fever type symptoms, mind was a total storm etc. It abated back to my unfortunate “normal” in several weeks but I was in a very, very bad way.

Hopefully this will be soon the case for you. Take care of yourself in the meantime and ideally call someone supportive to come and at least check in on you.

#7

@Jaime, @Dubya_B, @awor
Thank you. I know that my best course of action is just to wait it out and not take anything else presenting any risk. Except I thought about trying GHB before the cordyceps and that would’ve been safer. I thought about going to the doctor today, but I don’t want to be ridiculed and emotionally hurt again by him and really, what he could do but to prescribe benzos to me which I’m paranoid of taking due to its long-term carcinogenic risks.

Having PFS is a lonely enough battle, but to be dramatically worsened by taking Weird Shit on top of it is just too much to bear. I could use the morale to temper the crushing loneliness of what I’m going through. It’s hard not to catastrophize when the ability to sleep itself is gone.

It’s also stressful to be kept in the dark and if having a rough idea of what might be going on even if it’s just a wild ass guess would ease my mind for just for a minute or two, I’ll take it.

I know how valuable everyone’s time is but if anyone has any meaningful input to this I’ll appreciate it. I found this from the first study:

https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/0018-506x(87)90030-4

When infused into the MPOA, cordycepin, an adenosine analog that
decreases cytoplasmic accumulation of mRNA, blocks the ability of TP
to reinstate or maintain sexual behavior in castrated male gerbils. These
data, like those of Quadagno e? al. (1976), suggest that T activates male
sexual behavior by altering gene expression in the MPOA. Cordycepin
also counteracts T’s metabolites. Thus it does not impair mating simply
by preventing T metabolism. Nor does it act by destroying MPOA cells
since mating resumed when cordycepin infusions ceased. In other cell
types, cordycepin preferentially affects polyadenylation (Brawermann,
1976; Darnell et al., 1971; Sawicki et al., 1977). Hence’T may activate
male sexual behavior by inducing synthesis of polyadenylated (poly-A+)
mRNAs .

If direct inhibition
of translation contributed to, or even accounted for, cordycepin’s effects
on male sexual behavior, the data would still be compatible with the
hypothesis that T promotes mating via synthesis of mRNA. However,
they would also be compatible with the hypothesis that T acts cytoplasmically, for example, by affecting polypeptide chain initiation or
elongation. Similarly, they would support the hypothesis that T affects
transcription of tRNA and/or t-RNA, rather than, or in addition to, mRNA.
The latter possibilities also arise because cordycepin affects these processes
directly.

It later concludes cordycepin inhibits sexual behavior in gerbils by blocking polyadenylation of poly-A+ mRNA. It’s not clear whether or not cordcepin itself is a 5ari, I think it’s suggesting it’s not a 5ari but maybe the other constituents in the pills I took could be. Seems like its antiandrogenicity is due to blocking mRNA transcription.

@axolotl

Thank you so much. So you recovered to baseline after those grueling weeks?

#8

This is a very old study without the tech to determine much, and that is not the only compound in those. I wouldn’t get hung up on it, not enough is known right now to work out what specifically will be going on beyond the relevant fact there’s evidence of significant meddling in the androgen signaling pathway by these substances. Recent studies have suggested cordyceps militaris increases AR density in the testes of aged rats through unknown mechanisms. A closely related fungi in the family has also been shown to significantly reduce the AR in BPH rat models close to the effect of saw palmetto or finasteride through unknown modulation of the AR signaling pathway. There’s limits to what can be determined at the moment.

Yes I did. It’s easy to assume that’s it when you’re in the depths of that, so try and acknowledge that, hunker down for a couple of weeks and I anticipate and hope you’ll be on your way back to where you were.

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#9

Cordyceps does not affect me negatively.

However that supp you posted has beta-glucan and polyphenols which I believe both inhibit 5ar and/or affect AR.

#10

Btw, I am not saying that. It is just that with PFS, the pitfalls are many. Checking substances on Google Scholar for known hormonal effects before taking them, is usually not a bad idea.

#11

cordyceps does NOT inhibit 5ar, it’s one of the only mushrooms that actually increases it, according to mycologist, Paul Stamets.

Read page 217, https://decroissons.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/paul-stamets-mycelium-running-how-mushrooms-can-help-save-the-world.pdf

#12

Saw that, albeit the mechanism does not seem clear. AR antagonism could conceivably cause an increase in T due to negative feedback at the hypothalamus. If not, an increase in T or other androgenic action can also cause an aggravation of symptoms with some, I have first hand experience here.

#13

Agreed. Stronger dht supps, like androsterone or creatine, mess me up bad. I have never had problems with cordyceps though.