Hello from Spain, here is my story after quiting Propecia in

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

Last update, blood tests January 21st.

At first I thought it was work related issues but after 4 years now without taking the drug and several blood tests, your help is much appreciated.

FSH 1.37 mUI/ml male: 1.7 a 12.0 mUI/ml
(LH) 1.32 muI/ml 1.1. mUI/ml
Prolactin: 43.2ng/ml 1.5 - 19 ng/ml
Total Testosteron Total: 3.23 ng/dl 250-1250

november 2005, other laboratories

Testosteron total / : 4,08 ng/mL (3,00 - 11,00)
Prolactin: 35,8 ng/ml (< 15)
Free Testosteron: 16,90 pg/mL (5,60 a 27,00)
Prolactin after 30 minutes: 33,5 ng/mL (< 15)

march 2006
prolactin 34,2 (< 15)

July 2007
TSH - 2,85 mU/l 0.4 a 4.0
T4 Libre 14,66 pg/mL 8-19
Prolactin 30,98 ng/mL (< 15)

AUGUST 08
Colesterol 225 mg/dl (130-220)
Creatinkinasa: 207U/L (24-195)
LH : 1,22 mUI/mL (1,40 - 7,70)
FSH /Suero: 1,23 mUI/mL (1,50 - 14,00)
Prolactin: 35,1 ng/ml (< 15,00)
Total Testosteron: 3,15 ng/mL (3,00 - 11,00)
TSH: 2,23 UI/mL (0,25-5,00)
T4 Libre: 1,25 ng/dL (0,73 - 2,20)

OCTOBER 08
Creatinkinasa: 198 U/L (24-195)
ACTH: 52,7pg/mL (less than 100,00)
Cortisol: 21,40 ug/dl (4,50-24,00)
SOMATOMEDINA-C 172,00 ng/mL (55,00-358,00)
LH / SUERO: 0,87 mUI/mL (1,40 - 7,70)
FSH / SUERO: 1,17 mUI/mL (1,50-14,00)
17 - Beta Estradiol: less than 20,0 pg/mL (less than 56)
PROGESTERONA: 0,26 ng/mL (less than 0,6)
PROLACTIN: 38,8 ng/mL (less than 15,0)
Total Testosteron: 3,40 ng/mL (3,00-11,00)
Free Testosteron: 7,59 pg/mL (5,60-27,00)
17-Hidroxiprogesteron: 2,10 ug/dL (0,20-1,80)
SHBG 17,2 nmol/l (10,0-75,0)
TSH: 3,48 nuI/mL (0,25-5,00)
Free T4: 1,34 ng/dL (0,73-2,20)
Free T3: 2,52 pg/mL (2,00-4,70)
PSA: 0,45 ng/mL (less than 4,00)
Free PSA: 0,267
Aldosteron / Suero: 178,00 (pg/mL) (20,00-310,0)
Zinc (Espectroscopia de Absorcion Atomica /Llama): 120 ug/dL (60-150)

Started Dostinex Treatment

JANUARY 21ST 2009
LH: 1,60 (1,40 -7,70)
FSH: 1,50 (1,50 - 14,00)
PROLACTINE: 4,6 ng/mL (<15,0)
FREE TESTOSTERONE: 12,60 pg/mL (5,60 - 27,00)
17 - HIDROXIPROGESTERONE: 1,85 ng/mL (0,20 - 1,80)
TSH: 2,77 uUI/mL (0,35 - 5,50)
FREE T4: 1,42 ng/dL (0,72 - 2,20)

JUNE 26TH 2009

Prolactine: 3,8 ng/mL (<15,0)
Free Testosterone: 11,70 pg/mL (5,60 - 27,00)
17-Hidroxiprogesterone: 1,79 ng/mL (0,20 - 1,80)
TSH. 1,89 nUI/mL (0,35 - 5,50)
LH: 2,17 mUI/mL (1,40 - 7,70)
FSH: 1,85 mUI/mL (1,50 - 14,00)
17- Beta Estradiol 25,3 pg/mL. <56,0

JUN 13TH 2010 (I quited taking dostinex in May 2010).
LH: 1,40 mUI/mL (0,80 - 7,60)
FSH: 1,32 mUI/mL (0,70 - 11,00)
Prolactine: 11,00 (2,5 - 17,00)
Free Testosterone: 9,24 pg/mL (8,90 - 42,50)
17-Hidroxiprogesterone: 2,87 ng/mL (0,60 - 3,42)
TSH: 3,00 Nui/mL (0,35 - 5,50)

Comments on the last results (June 2010). After quiting dostinex, prolactine is raising again, Lh, Fsh, free testosterone are going down. I fell better though.

#2

Prolactin is elevated, needs to be brought down.

Ask about trying a dopamine agonist (Bromocriptine, Cabergoline) to bring down Prolactin.

Elevated prolactin can inhibit Testosterone/LH, and you are clearly above the normal range. This should be treated.

What are your Estradiol levels?

If you continue to have low T after Finasteride, consider trying Clomid or hCG treatment to boost endogeneous Testosterone. Read FAQ at top of site for more info. There are doctors in USA who have experience with “jumpstarting” men’s Testosterone production after Finasteride via such treatments.

#3

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1578

Look at “humanstudies-8.jpg”. It mentions PROLACTIN WAS ELEVATED ON THE DRUG AND REMAINED ELEVATED AFTER DISCONTINUING. There is some proof for you to bring to doctors who do not believe your case.

#4

Your prolactin levels are clearly too high. Your doctors didn’t say anything about your prolactin levels??

#5

Dear Mew, thank you very much for your help.
In my next visit to my endocrine I will ask for a test on Estradiol, do you think that I should ask any other item to be checked?

Thank you worried also for asking. It seems that prolactin has been the main issue for my endocrine, but the only thing he’s been doing so far is just to check it, he though it should be coming down by itself. It seems like he’s trying to confirm it’s not an Hypofisis issue. Next thursday I’ll have my second Magnetic Resonance results (the first ones didn’t show anything wrong).
I get nervous any time I have to get a blood test and he also thinks this could raise up the prolactin, that’s why he asked me for a prolactin check after 30 minutes from the first extraction. It goes down a little bit but it still is very high.

The key point here is they don’t believe these are Finasteride-related damages, they rather think it could be an autoinmnue illness.
Thanks to this website I could go with some orientation for them.

Thanks again.

#6

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92

That’s a joke right, that you being nervous will raise prolactin? lol… all your tests show consistently elevated prolactin levels. Clearly that needs to be treated and brought within range (Dr Shippen likes to keep it between 3-5 for men). If they don’t want to treat, find another doctor who will.

Of course, because they have yet to read any studies that show this is possible.

The study I linked to you in previous posts above shows that prolactin can be affected by Finasteride, and remain elevated even after discontinuation. Suggest you bring that with you.

#7

Hello,
first of all thank you again for you help, hopefully we’ll feel better soon, we are may sufferers from a drug that is very popular so it’ll have to be a matter of time, they won’t be able to hide the effects for too long.

I presented today the result of the magnetic resonance and as expected there was nothing wrong with it (Hypophisis). A good thing is that my endocrinologist paid special attention to data I brought from this forum and totally agreed with some topics taken from this website such as:
[Size=4]"Although while taking Finasteride a man’s Testosterone production may be elevated by as much as 15%, after quitting the drug, some have seen their body’s endogenous production of Testosterone, DHT, Luteinizing Hormone (LH) and Follicular Stimulating Hormone (FSH) plummet. This has left certain men in a state of Secondary Hypogonadism, sometimes with seriously elevated Estrogen/Estradiol levels or numerous other hormonal imbalances and health issues which are quite difficult to treat. "[/size]

As such is my case besides the high prolactine, she agreed to order a blood test with almost all the items recommended here.
Tomorrow I’m going to see my urologist, he’ll check (if) nothing is wrong down there as my Endo wants me to start a TRT. I asked her to try Cabergolin (or Bromo) to bring down Prolactin and then maybe after some Clomid but she thought it would be better going directly to Testosteron Replacement.
In Merck Sharp and Dohme Spain took note of my side effects (Farmacovigilancia) and gave me a telephone number so that my Doctors could talk with them and receive some professional literature. She agreed to call them and gave me her e-mail. She said she wanted to know the websites that deals with this post-finasteride effects therefore I’ll will send her this information.

I have the feeling that Prolactine has to brought down though. Did somebody use Cabergoline or Bromocriptine and noticed any improvement?

Thank you, I’ll keep on writing as more news come.

#8

Hello,
i just received the my last blood tests with as many items checked as I could:
Creatinkinasa: 198 U/L (24-195)
ACTH: 52,7pg/mL (less than 100,00)
Cortisol: 21,40 ug/dl (4,50-24,00)
SOMATOMEDINA-C 172,00 ng/mL (55,00-358,00)
LH / SUERO: 0,87 mUI/mL (1,40 - 7,70)
FSH / SUERO: 1,17 mUI/mL (1,50-14,00)
17 - Beta Estradiol: less than 20,0 pg/mL (less than 56)
PROGESTERONA: 0,26 ng/mL (less than 0,6)
PROLACTIN: 38,8 ng/mL (less than 15,0)
Total Testosteron: 3,40 ng/mL (3,00-11,00)
Free Testosteron: 7,59 pg/mL (5,60-27,00)
17-Hidroxiprogesteron: 2,10 ug/dL (0,20-1,80)
SHBG 17,2 nmol/l (10,0-75,0)
TSH: 3,48 nuI/mL (0,25-5,00)
Free T4: 1,34 ng/dL (0,73-2,20)
Free T3: 2,52 pg/mL (2,00-4,70)
PSA: 0,45 ng/mL (less than 4,00)
Free PSA: 0,267
Aldosteron / Suero: 178,00 (pg/mL) (20,00-310,0)
Zinc (Espectroscopia de Absorcion Atomica /Llama): 120 ug/dL (60-150)

Any interpretation? next tuesday I have an appointment with my endo but I think she’s a little bit lost (she recognised it) but she’s willing to learn so any help to both of us is much apreciated I’ll try my best to convince her to low my prolactin. Any other recomendation?
I’m remembering now that on a visit to an endo for some other reason (try to loose weight) there was a value on my bloodtests then (about year 2000) some T value, I believed it was TSH that was very high, it seems not anymore.

Thank you all

#9

Another update.

I just visited my endo with the last (october 08) blood tests (posted above). She has done quite a research since my last visit, including this website, and talked about it with her colleages. She said it’s very difficult to blame Propecia but sure all the symptoms have somehow a connection, and she’ll work with me from this possibility.
Next thursday I’ll have a testicular scan and later on a spermogram.
She’s going to put me on HCG, If it wouldn’t work on TRT. She told me It will take time but my Free Testosterone numbers (there is a decrease from 16,90 pg/mL in nov05 to 7,59 pg/ml in oct08 (ranges 5,60 -27,00), LH, FSH are very low. Maybe she’ll check my bones density as well.

After our first conversation she expected to see higher numbers in Estradiol but she thinks as 4 years have passed since I discontinued Propecia I might have gone through that as well and now they are stablished.

I discussed with her about Dostinex (cabergoline), she said if after HCG we see it keeps on being up she’ll prescibe it to me.

I’m trying to read this website as much as I can, excuse my English, all the help and comments are appreciated as I’m not as informed about it as you.

#10

Thanks for the update.

  1. Judging from your latest bloodwork there is definitely still an issue with ELEVATED PROLACTIN which requires TREATMENT.

If I were the doc I would try and bring that down, BEFORE hCG or TRT to see if it brings up your low Total and Free Testosterone levels. Unfortunately your endo wants to go the other way around, so unless you can provide scientific materials (do some GOOGLING) to argue your point (ie, lowering Prolactin increases Testosterone), she will likely start you with the hCG.

  1. LH & FSH are low – and considering your low Total and Free Testosterone issues, likely points to a Pituitary issue (Secondary Hypogonadism). Your Pituitary is not sending enough of either hormone to tell your balls to produce enough T (LH) and possibly, maintain fertility (FSH… have you had a sperm test done?).

However – to be sure, blood tests for LH/FSH can be unreliable since LH/FSH are released in a pulsatile manner. A better assesment would be 24hr pooled blood or urine tests to see the fluctuations over time, and determine if they are in fact consistently low.

  1. Low Total/Free Testosterone – clearly borderline hypogonadal… probably due to low LH (pituitary), with elevated Prolactin and possibly 17-Hydroxyprogesterone also possibly playing a role.

  2. Elevated 17-hydroxyprogesterone – Investigate adrenal function further, specifically Adrenal Hyperplasia. Coupled with a borderline high Cortisol level, also consider investigating Cushing’s Disease. Both of these require further Adrenal/ACTH testing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17-Hydroxyprogesterone
“Measurements of levels of 17-hydroxyprogesterone are useful in the evaluation of patients with suspected congenital adrenal hyperplasia as the typical enzymes that are defective, namely 21-hydroxylase and 11β-hydroxylase, lead to a build-up of 17OHP.”

books.google.com/books?id=aWQhTb … &ct=result

  1. Your TSH is borderline Hypothyroid, according to revised AACE guidelines in the USA (anything above 3 is considered suspect). Treating this might have some positive impacts.

aace.com/newsroom/press/2003 … r=20030118

In addition to the above bloodwork, I would recommend you test:

Androstenedione
DHT
3alpha-diol G (Androstanediol glucuronide-- “Adiol-G” for short)
Androsterone glucuronide
DHEA-S
Cortisone
Corticosterone
Deoxycorticosterone
17-ketosteroids (24 urine sample)

Finally, if I were you I’d do things in this order:

  • Treat TSH since elevated prolactin can be a result of hypothyroidism:
    propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1093

  • If that does not correct elevated Prolactin, treat with Bromocriptine or Cabergoline.

  • Once prolactin and TSH under control, re-test Testosterone levels to see if they have increased. Test for Adrenal issues (Hyperplasia, Cushing’s).

  • If no T increase from controlling TSH/Prolactin, try Clomid or Tamoxifen to jumpstart HTPA. If no help, try low-dose hCG (no more than 500iu per shot) 3x per week.

  • If no help, consider TRT as last resort. If no help, consider TRT + DHT cream.

Ultimately it would be great if the endo would be willing to test for 5AR2 enzyme activity via genital skin fibroblast culture, or androgen receptor mutation/reduced binding capabilities/androgen insensitivity BEFORE starting something like TRT… but you’d have to argue your position that even if you end up on TRT and can’t “feel it”, then there might be an issue with androgen receptor desensitization or insensitivity.

Bone density testing would be a good idea to see if the low T has had a big impact there. Also, if you are put on TRT you MUST test for and may require Estrogen management (Arimidex) to keep estrogens under control.

#11

Another update.
My endo sent me to a stimulation with LHRH to LH and FSH for 0, 60 and 90 minutes, but no laboratories in Spain will do that test since there is no possibility of finding “Luforan”.
Here are the results of my sperm tests (Endo thinks it came out normal).

Volume: 2,000 mL (>1,999)
Colour: White-Grease
Aspect: Opalescent
Viscosity: Normal
Licuefaction: Full

Sperm
mL 500,000 mill/mL (>19,999)
Total Ey 1.000,000 mill/eyac /(>39,999)
Mobility:
Progressive (a+b type) 45% (>50)
fast (type a) : 40%(>25)
slow (type b) : 5%
mobile non progressive (type c): 5%
Still (type d): 50%
Morfology:(Diff-Quick)
Normal forms: 24% (>15)
Anormal forms: 76%

Semen:
pH 7,5000 (>7,199)
Diagnostic: Normozoosperm

It seems like there is no possibility of finding HCG in Spain right now so my endo told me that if I’m able to buy some we could use it.
In the meantime she finally agreed on bringing my Prolactin down (dostinex 0,5 mg 1 pill monday and thursday).
About my possible hypotyroidism: Eutirox 25mg (one pill daily).
She also order me to do a Tyroid scan and more blood tests after one month on these treatments.

About my DHE-S it’s 228,00 ug/dL (80,0 - 560,0)

I’ll keep on posting more results/news.

#12

Please let us know how you feel on the Dostinex and Eutirox. I may also be having issues with elevated prolactin and hypothyroidism so I am curious if you will feel better with these treatments.

#13

Thank you Mew again for your time. I’ll try to go, step by step searching for answers. I’m a little confused about what my endo told me about HCG as I have seen that there are some drugs with HCG being sold in spanish farmacies…I’ll talk about it with my endo next month.

I started today with the Dostinex (carbergoline) threatment. What I’m not sure right now is about taking Eutirox, I think Propecia really messes with the tyroid but until my last blood test in October I’ve had pretty good numbers of TSH and T3 and T4 (or at least that I believe, correct me if I’m wrong). Therefore I’d like to focus on Prolactin and if in my next blood tests the TSH keeps on being high I’d go ahead and take it.

I’ll keep you informed

#14

Do let us know about the dostinex.

#15

LHRH <----- what wil this test explain exactly?

#16

The hypothalamus releases GnRH (aka LHRH) to the pituitary, which then releases LH and FSH which tell your nuts to make Testosterone and sperm. So they will give him an LHRH test to mimic the hypothalamus hormones and see if the pituitary responds.

This test will help clarify wether the issue lies at the HYPOTHALAMUS (ie, to see if its not releasing the necessary GnRH hormones to stimulate pituitary function) or at the PITUITARY (maybe it’s receiving GnRH, but not responding by producing LH/FSH).

More info:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotrop … ng_hormone

endocrinesurgeon.co.uk/atoz/ … -Test.html

#17

Mew is correct; cpy.cuhk.edu.hk/wardmanual/LHRH.html
The same day may endo wanted me to do that test, she told me that normally there are no good results the first times and maybe I should repeat the test several times,she also asked me if I could smell things. I told her that yes I could. Unfortunately it seems this test is no longer being made here. She told me about another very similar test but before going further I “convinced” her to give the Cabergoline a try on me.

As my testicular scan came right and so the sperm test she is optimistic and thinks this whole situation could be reversible but she has no idea about the path we are taking.
I also asked her about my high Hidroprogesterone and she talked me about the Adrenal Hiperplasia (congenital) but she said that if I had that illness I would have experience real problems as a child (even with blockages that could even lead to death). It seems that I should be careful with stressful situations though.

#18

What about if you had normal adrenal function up until taking Finasteride, which via blockade of THDOC (adrenal neurosteroid) synthesis, and the fact that Finasteride has a structural affinity to corticosteroids, that this may have impacted adrenal function or caused a form of adrenal hyperplasia in the adult?

Scroll down to “Based on the above study, my point is this…” for further detail:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =8921#8921

Diagram of Fin blockade (page 3): propeciahelp.com/forum/download.php?id=145

Perhaps bring that with you to your next appointment…

#19

I will bring that in my next visit (1 month time).
She already gave me a prescription for a blood test including a closer look to the 17-hydroxyprogesterone. I’ll have to study more about adrenal stuff since right now I know nothing about it.

Here are two links (in Spanish) where you can find a direct effect from hiperprolactinemia to the gonadal function.

scielo.org.pe/scielo.php?scr … 6000400008
bvs.sld.cu/revistas/end/vol9 … d04198.htm

They basically conclude that in men with hiperprolactinemia there are signs of hipogonadism (partial or complete). In adults (low libido, ed, oligosperm-azoosperm-astenozoosperm and infertility). In the first study they recomend Cabergoline to Bromocriptine because of its effectiveness bringin to normoprolactinemia (83% vs. 59%) and normalizing the gonadal function (72% vs. 52%), and less side effects. It also says that patients treated with cabergoline (with no evidence of tumor) could discontinue the drug after 2 years usint it with no risk of relapsing.

#20

Dear Solonjk,

thank you so much for your post, tomorrow I have an appointment with my endo, I’ll have to pick up the results of my last blood test. I’ll post the values here.

Yes, I’ve been feeling really bad I would say these last 5 or 6 years. At first I thought it was me, for no particular reason. Now I’m fighting to get back to my old-old me.

Energy not as before at all, but it has improved. My mood is dominated by anxiety so when I have the anxiety free feeling I feel just great.
Sleep: My sleep is good, I listen to a sport radio program at night that helps me a lot falling sleep.

About cortisol etc.
Yes tomorrow I will definetely ask her for a saliva and urine test.

After a few weeks with cabergoline (half pill of Dostinex) and recently 1 pill every monday and thursday I could say I have improved, specially my libido (I’m having more sexual dreams lately) and a feeling of being more interested in life. Unfortunately the anxiety symptoms persist, and I also have undergone through sexual performance problems whith my wife.

I will ask my endo as well for this test. I might have some issue with Serotonin. Not sure now if my endo could order theses tests for me or I should go to other professional such a psychiatrist.

Thank you Solonjk. I’ll keep you all informed.