Hair loss after fin

[tim1911]

Did peoples hair start falling out again post fin?..if so at the same rate as pre fin, a slower rate or not at all

[Mew]

Slower… but who cares about hair anymore after this mess?

[joeyt]

ok I’m just curious if you guys are in the same boat as I am

Did you 's start losing hair again after you stopped the drug?

For me, I am definately not thinning at the pace I should be. Before I was on the drugs I was balding real bad. Now it’s the same pace as when I was on the drugs.

[tim1911]

@joeyt

ok I’m just curious if you guys are in the same boat as I am

Did you 's start losing hair again after you stopped the drug?

For me, I am definately not thinning at the pace I should be. Before I was on the drugs I was balding real bad. Now it’s the same pace as when I was on the drugs.

My hairloss has stopped cold, i am lucky to loose 5 a week.

[Luckfax]

Same as tim here, I never lose any hair at all now except when I go the barbers.

I was losing a lot when I decided to take fin, though not really balding. And every time I quit pre-crash it would soon enough fall out quite noticeably again.

[martinM]

@Mew

Slower… but who cares about hair anymore after this mess?

Ditto. I would gladly give it all away to be back to my pre fin self.

[tim1911]

@martinM

@Mew

Slower… but who cares about hair anymore after this mess?

Ditto. I would gladly give it all away to be back to my pre fin self.

Wouldnt we all, what an automated response.

[martinM]

@tim1911

Wouldnt we all, what an automated response.

Tim, you asked if hair started falling out after fin and at what speed. I agreed with Mew (by stating “ditto”, my hair has started falling out again but much slower than the rate than my prefin self.

How is this an automated response?

[tim1911]

Read what you quoted of mew.

And

Ditto. I would gladly give it all away to be back to my pre fin self.

I mean for christs sake DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[cando]

Personally i’d say that after an inital shed it’s continued more or less as pre-fin, i think most people have more or less the same experience.

[tim1911]

@cando

Personally i’d say that after an inital shed it’s continued more or less as pre-fin, i think most people have more or less the same experience.

I disagree.

[proscarred]

I’ve lost a ton of hair post fin. A shit ton over the last three months. I don’t see it falling out, but I’m markedly thinner on top now. My friends and family can’t believe it.

[boston332]

From what I can tell I don’t seem to be losing too much hair. I don’t see any hair in the tub and my hair seems to look about the same. But, my hair loss was very gradual over the years pre-Fin. Like everyone else I really don’t pay any attention to it anymore. I don’t think friends and family would mention it if it was falling out considering all the other shit I’m (we’re) going through.

[awor]

I have lost more hair post fin than in the 40 years before. In the beginning, though, I stopped loosing hair completely. After about a year, the hair loss returned with a vengeance. Incidentally, I have seen a number of posts on hair loss forums in the past, where some guys claimed that finasteride causes a persistent increase in hair loss after quitting. Of course, he was bashed by the fin fans, but well, he was right (in my case). Btw, this is also often seen with Accutane users (basically same problem as PFS).

[tim1911]

I can count the numbers of hairs i have seen falling out in the last couple of months on one hand, this is at 18 months off for me. I know there are other members who have had slowed/stopped hair loss post fin.

This is very interesting, awor do you have an explaination for this variation?

[bryce54]

i read something online that after people get off fin, and this is for more normal users, they have accelerated hair loss than before fin. the reason that i read for this was because the DHT receptors in the head have become more sensitive. so the way it was explained was since 5AR2 production was stopped and DHT was being blocked from being sent to the hair, the DHT receptors in the hair become extra sensitive because the body adapts to the situation of no DHT. so the receptors in the hair are trying to harder to find DHT because there is no DHT being sent there. so in the normal person when DHT is back to normal after they stop using fin, since the DHT receptors are so sensitive, way more DHT is being sent to the scalp and the hair loss accelerates. i don’t know the exact science behind it or if there is actually a DHT receptor in the hair or not or it could’ve been some other receptor up there, but that’s how it was talked about. then apparently the DHT receptor adapts then you go back to normal hair loss, not super accelerated.

[awor]

@bryce54

the reason that i read for this was because the DHT receptors in the head have become more sensitive. so the way it was explained was since 5AR2 production was stopped and DHT was being blocked from being sent to the hair, the DHT receptors in the hair become extra sensitive because the body adapts to the situation of no DHT.

This part of the explanation is spot on bryce, very good. That is all there is too it. The rest is not necessary and most likely not correct. As to the question as to why some men experience strong hair loss, and others none, the answer to that one is extremely complex. It basically is the same reason as to why some people experience strong side effects in some areas (like muscle wasting), and others don’t.

[Oscar]

@awor

@bryce54

the reason that i read for this was because the DHT receptors in the head have become more sensitive. so the way it was explained was since 5AR2 production was stopped and DHT was being blocked from being sent to the hair, the DHT receptors in the hair become extra sensitive because the body adapts to the situation of no DHT.

This part of the explanation is spot on bryce, very good. That is all there is too it. The rest is not necessary and most likely not correct. As to the question as to why some men experience strong hair loss, and others none, the answer to that one is extremely complex. It basically is the same reason as to why some people experience strong side effects in some areas (like muscle wasting), and others don’t.

Spot on, apart from the fact that there is no evidence that the human body works in that way!

On the contrary; Men undergoe full androgen ablation for prostate cancer and there is no evidence they suffer these problems. Which would seem to rule out the reduction in androgens as a cause (also DHT has no effect on muscle).

The commonality between the scalp and the genitals is 5aR (etc.) the places that interacted wih Finasteride. And, although it is not commonly discussed, 5aR is also found in muscles and throughout the body. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5168

[awor]

@Oscar

Spot on, apart from the fact that there is no evidence that the human body works in that way!

Wow Oscar, you really did your research man! With just minimal googling, you would have found an almost infinite source of articles stating that androgen ablation causes hypersensitivity of the AR. Yes - Research has consistently shown that reducing activation of the androgen receptor (either by reducing DHT through 5AR inhibition or by AR antagonism through an anti-androgen such as bicalutamide) can lead to androgen receptor hypersensitivity (01) (02) (03) (04) (05). A state of AR hypersensitivity would cause an amplification of the AR signal (06), mainly through HSP90 acetylation (07). This has been found in prostate cancer, non-prostate cancer and animal settings.

But look, we’re all here to help, so here is the perfect link for you: justfuckinggoogleit.com/

Ok, I know it’s difficult, so I have dug up some easy to digest quotes for you:

@Feldmann et al.

Amplification of the AR has been proposed as one of the mechanisms for AI progression of PCa after surgical or chemical castration. In most cases, it leads to an overexpression of the AR and hypersensitivity to androgenic ligands.
nature.com/aja/journal/v12/n5/full/aja201089a.html

@Grossmann et al.

In one example, a tumor was found to have an amplified AR
after the patient had undergone treatment with the 5a-reductase
inhibitor finasteride to relieve the problems associated with the
enlargement of the prostate that occur with BPH
jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/22/1687.full

@Corradi et al.

after the 30 consecutive days of enzymatic inhibition with Finasteride (5α-r inhibitor) and Letrozole (Aro inhibitor) demonstrated a marked stromal remodeling, with an increased deposition of extracellular matrix (ECM) proteins besides androgen receptor (AR) overexpression… The AR content immunostaining was elevated after enzymatic inhibition therapy, mainly in the nuclei of epithelial cells. Similar data were observed in the ventral prostates even 21 days after the end of treatments.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jemt.20740/abstract

@Oscar

On the contrary; Men undergoe full androgen ablation for prostate cancer and there is no evidence they suffer these problems.

Is this your contribution to this site? Just sitting around posting random nonsense all day? Ever heard of the Androgen Deprivation Syndrome Oscar? Are you really computer illiterate or something? Here is a list of symptoms from men undergoing androgen ablation:

• Hot flushes
• Aches & pains in muscles and joints
• Fatigue & feeling weak
• Memory difficulties
• Mood & emotional swings
• Symptomatic anemia (shortness of breath, dizziness, severe weakness)
• Urinary frequency
• Impotence, loss of libido
• Loss of muscle bulk & strength, worse in pectoral, biceps and quadriceps
• Weight gain and fat redistribution
• Chronic fatigue syndrome
• Gynecomastia
• Osteoporosis
• Alzheimer’s-like symptoms
• Increased serum cholesterol & triglyceride levels

And a quote from a current study in progress:

The rate of erectile dysfunction in men who receive a prolonged period of Gosereline (i.e. 2 yrs) is not known, but suspected according to expert opinion, to be significantly higher than a shorter course of hormonal ablation.
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00242138

Further reading:

“depression, cognitive impairment, or constitutional symptoms in Medicare data following androgen deprivation”
Shahinian VB, Kuo YF, Freeman JL, Goodwin JS: Risk of the “androgen deprivation syndrome” in men receiving androgen deprivation for prostate cancer. Arch Intern Med. 2006 Feb 27;166(4):465-71

“this constellation of clinical and laboratory abnormalities quickly develops in younger men, or older men in otherwise good health, after ADT is initiated. This clearly suggests that these symptoms are not simply attributed to “old age” but are characteristic of what we have termed the Androgen Deprivation Syndrome (ADS).”
Strum SB, Scholz MC & McDermed JE: The Androgen Deprivation Syndrome: the incidence and severity in prostate cancer patients receiving hormone blockade. Proc Amer Soc Clin Oncol. 17: 316A, 1998.

1. Kawata H, Ishikura N, Watanabe M, Nishimoto A, Tsunenari T, Aoki Y. Prolonged treatment with bicalutamide induces androgen receptor overexpression and androgen hypersensitivity. Prostate. May 2010, pp. 745-54 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20058237).

2. Culig Z, Steiner H, Bartsch G, Hobisch A. Mechanisms of endocrine therapy-responsive and -unresponsive prostate tumours. Endocr Relat Cancer. Jun 2005, pp. 229-44 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15947099).

3. Gregory CW, Johnson RT Jr, Mohler JL, French FS, Wilson EM. Androgen receptor stabilization in recurrent prostate cancer is associated with hypersensitivity to low androgen. Cancer Res. Apr 2001, pp. 2892-8 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11306464).
   The 5ARI Withdrawal Syndrome 24

4. Fujimoto N, Miyamoto H, Mizokami A, Harada S, Nomura M, Ueta Y, Sasaguri T, Matsumoto T. Prostate cancer cells increase androgen sensitivity by increase in nuclear androgen receptor and androgen receptor coactivators; a possible mechanism of hormone-resistance of prostate cancer cells. Cancer Invest. Feb 25(1), 2007, pp. 32-7 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed/17364555).

5. Klocker H, Culig Z, Eder IE, Nessler-Menardi C, Hobisch A, Putz T, Bartsch G, Peterziel H, Cato AC. Mechanism of androgen receptor activation and possible implications for chemoprevention trials. Eur Urol. 35(5-6) 1999, pp. 413-9 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed/10325498).

6. Chen CD, Welsbie DS, Tran C, Baek SH, Chen R, Vessella R, Rosenfeld MG, Sawyers CL. Molecular determinants of resistance to antiandrogen therapy. Nat Med. Jan 2004, pp. 33-9 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702632).

7. Ai J, Wang Y, Dar JA, Liu J, Liu L, Nelson JB, Wang Z. HDAC6 regulates androgen receptor hypersensitivity and nuclear localization via modulating Hsp90 acetylation in castration-resistant prostate cancer. Mol Endocrinol. Dec 23(12), 2009, pp. 1963-72 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19855091).

[Frustrated]

Personally, my hair loss has at the very least slowed since stopping finasteride. I randomly ran into a friend of mine from college that I had not seen in 3 years and out of the blue he commented that it looked I had more hair since graduation and asked if I was taking rogaine (which I have not been). Three years had passed between graduation and that encounter and it had been over a year since I quit taking finasteride when I ran into him.

The one time I did noticeably shed hair was when I was on testosterone replacement and my DHT levels skyrocketed before falling again to the bottom level of the range after quitting treatment. Since then my hairloss has not progressed very rapidly, if at all.

However, since hair loss typically doesn’t progress in a completely linear fashion it is really difficult to estimate the rate at which I would have been losing hair had I never taken the drug.