I wouldn’t. But I’m not interested in winning an argument over the Internet. If you’re still taken in by these types of threads–fine. Just go get tested for whatever any alternative health doctor tells you and please leave me out of it. Best of luck with your endeavors anyhow.
Chronic fatigue is one of the few symptoms of PFS I’ve got rid of. My energy levels are pretty good generally. Also, I don’t think CFS causes you to grow breasts or your genitals to shrink and go numb. FWIW droit believes PFS is a state of androgen deprivation as well. I think this is a good thread but I concur with Mario vitali, those with low T symptoms may (also) have to try boosting hormones in some way because I doubt this is going to conquer muscle wastage let alone ed/libido issues.
Please do not derail the topic with discussion (including digs on awor’s research and such) related to methylation protocol and it’s results. If you wish to do so, make another topic about it like was done with JN’s/IHP’s theory and topic. This topic is mainly reserved for methylation results and raising awareness of methylation problems in PFS population & QA related to applying the SMP or similar protocol.
So with the B-12- do you place it under the top lip near the teeth, or hold it between the lips?
I am going to get the methylation panel test done and will post results.
At the moment I am taking L-methyfolate and Methylcobalamin (B12) with a B-Complex and Magnesium.
Jamielondon,
I often hear of people putting the sublingual in their top lip against the gums. But I think this could be a great discussion on the treatment thread to find out what everyone is doing.
To add to the debate, here is a reply I got from the endo I see at Dr Herthoge’s clinic after I sent her my methylation panel results. Previously she had never spoken about methylation.
to.robin,
Thank you for posting this report from your doctor. You have a relatively progressive doctor compared to everyone else.
Also, this person’s treatment analysis is totally inline with the treatment protocol that most are doing.
I’ve never heard of Vitamin C aiding in the recycling of Glutathione. Glutathione reductase is the enzyme that recycles glutathione. I would be interested in researching what the relationship is.
If I take a lot Vitamin C I get tired just like when I manually take any antioxidant.
I’m going to give this a shot starting today.
Breakfast:
B Complex (Thorne #12), low dose vitamin C
Lunch:
Low dose vitamin C
Dinner:
B Complex, fish oil, vitamin D, low dose vitamin C
Bedtime:
NAC, magnesium citrate
Bluejaysfan,
I like that you said ‘low dose vitamin C.’ I also will titrate up, but slower. Maybe a 10th of a capsule every other day for a week.
Hey Guys,
Just wanted to say some things regarding the Methylation protocol. I was one of the people that felt immediate results with NAC. Then i decided to add more methylation supplements such as Methylcobalamin, TMG, P5P to feel better as soon as possible.
After some days i saw my Brain Fog and various other neurological sides becoming more intense. I thought that Methylcobalamin was causing the side effects and so i dropped it.
After trying various dosages and methyl supplement combinations i came to the conclusion that it was NAC that made me feel worse. It seems that a “methylation block” occurred which made things even worse. When i dropped NAC and added a single dose of MethylCobalamin, TMG and P5P i started feeling great and more importantly i started having consistent results.
Neurological sides are slowly diminishing for the past two weeks both in frequency and intensity so i am very positive for this. I also get HCG shots because of low T and also take T3/T4 meds for my thyroid.
We have gotten our 7th Methylation Panel. He is in the genetics sheet and the methylation panel data sheet as ‘Anonymous #2.’
From his numbers he is by far the most depleted of all of us. What strange is, for a short term user, he’s genetics are not that severe (based on what Yasko says is severe). However, Anonymous #2 described himself as going through an extreme stressful period when he crashed and cited multiple sources of oxidative stress per the below quote.
I’ve also had bad experiences with NAC.
Methyl-B12, hydroxy-B12, and adenosyl-B12, however, has consistently worked to improve brainfog, dizziness and digestion. It doesn’t seem to matter which form of the three B12s I take – they all work great.
These days I’m trying to find something that can compound the improvement I’m getting from B12. Planning to increase my dose of 5-MTHF to 10mg a day, and adding in 5-formyltetrahydrofolate.
From what i can tell this regimen needs to give it some time. I tried raising Metafolin intake throughout the day but did not make a difference. Once a day P5P 50mg, TMG 1000mg, Metafolin 800mcg does the trick for me. CoQ10 100 mg per day help for Glutamate Over-excitation which could be a key problem for some of us.
So , last week I was sleeping much better and was in a good mood.
On Friday I felt on my left leg something that I could describe has a discomfort in the leg. But I have also been exercising a lot. In any case I decided to stop all the vitamins until the leg got better, because it could be for example too much B6.
The leg is now better and I’ve started reintroducing the vitamins.
What I would like to say is that Saturday I noticed I was slightly irritated. I’ve drank a few drinks on Saturday night so it’s normal I didnt sleep well. BUt then from sunday to monday and monday to tuesday (today), my mood was shit and my sleep wasn’t as good. I wasn’t so sleepy at night, even after the trazodone, and I actually tonight woke up after 5.30 hours of sleep.
I’ve restarted b12 , b9, Vitamin C and Zinc.
I think what I had was from exercise, because later on the discomfort in the leg turned into tiredness in the leg and later some small pain, which has now subsided for the most part.
Nonetheless, I would like to ask you if you had any problems with B6, or if you think 50mg a day of P5P could be problematic?
Thanks
Hi guys, where should I add my 23andme data?
Also, i’m working on a questionnaire, could you please see my thread?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8939
Interesting research that says low Glutathione in the brain is correlated with anhedonia in major depressive disorder.
“In vivo 1H MRS study of potential associations between glutathione, oxidative stress and anhedonia in major depressive disorder”
I just read through a very interesting paper:
“Regulation of the pentose phosphate pathway by an androgen receptor–mTOR-mediated mechanism and its role in prostate cancer cell growth”
nature.com/oncsis/journal/v3 … 1418a.html
It says that androgens, via androgen receptor, drive the Pentose Phosphat shunt, which generates NADPH, a cofactor for glutathione recycling.
Essentially, if androgen capacity is reducing (by lowered T or DHT levels or impaired Androgen Receptor by other means) you will generate less (reduced) glutathione and it will pool in the oxidized form.
This thread has cited papers that show how androgen deprivation (specifically Fin treatment) leads to oxidative stress. And how oxidative environments feedback back in different ways to effect androgen capacity.
This is paper clearly shows how reducing androgens prevents glutathione regeneration. Consistent which the data in this thread and what we expect the coming research to show.
This picture this is painting is of a vicious cycle between androgens and oxidative environment.
This is what i was saying in the P450 thread. See viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8592&start=100#p82455
D-Ribose AND ENADA NADH on the regimen is added for exactly the same reason.
Mariovitali, that is not what you were saying. It has been known for a long time that NADH/NADPH are cofactors for many reactions, and in an oxidative environment, these cofactors will shift toward their oxidized forms: NAD and NADP, removing a critical co-factor from the cellular pool.
What is novel about the above finding is that it shows (for the first time I’ve seen), that androgens drive NADPH generation.
Note that supplementing NADH will not rescue lack of NADPH. NADPH is the preferred cofactor for many important reactions. Like 5-alpha-reductase activity.
It may not be necessarily so :
So in your understanding Droit, could it be beneficial to supplement with D-Ribose and/or NADH or not?