Final protocol 100% pfs reversal with dht therapy - lastpost

General Discussion
#1401

I wanted to let you guys know that many of you should be patient, while I had amazing results in just 1 day of using suspension, some of you may take longer. Nothing induces 5AR and thus DHT more than testosterone suspension, it lived up to its reputation and expectations. It took me a month on propionate to get anywhere, for guys who are shut down, I really think the best option is suspension, I think it is the best option for all of us.
If every guy on this site went on testosterone suspension, the whole place would be very different. That being said, I may begin some new experiments (since no one else is doing any). I am it when it comes to treatments for PFS, when I was on enanthate I used to get a boost when adding propionate at night, I know that doesn’t make sense, but I will explain. It is the quick conversion, and suspension puts propionate to shame, I am curious how 1 enanthate injection would work out with suspension injections to induce 5AR and keep up DHT.
I am also curious about enanthate weekly injections with letrozole daily, letrozole is too strong, but so is enanthate for us, maybe they would balance each other out. It would be good to know if there are ways to get us to respond to long acting esters. I find this all interesting, but, while I will probably move on with my life, I think even those of us who are on a working protocol, might want to check in from time to time to share notes.
I will say, i am amazed no one with PFS ever tried testosterone suspension? Has anyone ever tried it before me?

Also, for those of you interested, on Suspension I am gaining muscle mass really fast! I found that dosing twice a day may be required (unless on perhaps a low dose of an extended ester). I encourage you guys to experiment once you get on suspension, everyone is different and some may find some interesting protocols. We really need to all be working on this rather than complaining. I can’t tell you how many guys on here have been sitting around for months and years not even trying testosterone thinking it wouldn’t work, now they are improving.

        I am exited about hearing how the first 2 guys respond to suspension, if they respond on day 1 or 2, I will really insist that they post, but I will let you guys know what happens. Ideally I would like to find a way to make weekly injections work, but I can live with daily injections. GOSH I AM GETTING SO BIG!!! That's a side effect you guys will get who workout, this is the MOST MASS BUILDING steroid, you will pack on muscle fast if you workout and eat.
#1402

Oh, about keeping natural testosterone production up, HCG is too estrogenic, there is a drug body builder science is now using to keep testicle size up, and it is an estrogen blocker. I have not fully researched it, but one of my body builder friends is seriously excited about it.

it is called Toremifene Citrate, I am ordering it now and will begin experimentation soon

[i]Toremifene Citrate, also known as Fareston, is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) similar to Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex). Toremifene Citrate is used to treat breast cancer in post-menopausal female rats. It does this by exerting estrogen antagonistic effects in certain tissue, most notably, breast tissue. This is actually the same mechanism of action found in Tamox. This is why tamox is often recommended to researchers who are trying to avoid gynecomastia in their research rats. Toremifene Citrate has several other well known effects, which are not simply limited to preventing the abnormal growth of breast tissue.

At the hypothalamus and pituitary, estrogen acts in cooperation with the male subject body’s negative feedback loop to send a signal to decrease the secretion of LH and FSH. When LH secretion is lowered, so are natural testosterone levels. Toremifene Citrate may even act as an estrogen antagonist in the hypothalamus and pituitary, which would also increase testosterone production. Because its androgenicity to estrogenicity ratio is 5x that of tamoxifene, Toremifene citrate is highly likely to be capable of increasing testosterone.[/i]

#1403

Already 240 pounds, here. Want to cut weight. Any testosterone should assist with that, given diet and cardio? How keepable are the gains from Suspension and Prop?

How about sleep quality, JQD? Any improvement?

#1404 
  Well, suspension is used by body builders during "cutting phases," which means losing fat to get ripped, it is also used to bulk up. Suspension is the most potent mass building agent, this stuff is crazy, I gained 3 pounds of muscle in just a few days. I will get HUGE from this stuff, so if you workout it will make you look amazing! Plus it is so androgenic (dht inducing) that you will have more of a cut dry look. 
  I am not sure about how steady the testosterone levels are with it, no one really knows, it used to be believed it had a half life of 3 hours, but a newer study reported that the crystals caused it to last 2 to 3 days (however, I think that study was in horses). The concept as you understand is stimulating 5AR (via its super quick release mechanism) and then reducing test to DHT (really fast). Then the test is gone, so we have high dht and fading test, while I feel great, I did a second injection tonight as I felt I needed it. I did 20mg in the morning and 10mg at night, but I am wondering about a small amount of a long acting ester (a really small amount like 20mg or something). 
   The theory is that the suspension would reduce itself to DHT and then also the extended release ester in my system, and there would be a lot of DHT to handle the estrogen. I know a lot about Hormone replacement therapy, and steady levels are the way you want to be. I don't yet know how steady the test levels will be, will they go up and then down to nothing, or will they last on. 
    When I started suspension I still had propionate in my system, and propionate is actually a 24-36 hour ester, so some of us may desire higher test levels as we will have a drug that induces 5AR and reduces test to DHT (all test). I am going to run some experiments, there are thousands of guys with PFS, it would be good for guys to have options to choose from. 
    I am going to see how steady my levels are tomorrow, so far I have yet to notice levels dropping as it is what this protocol is designed to do. I also am going to see if Subcutaneous works (injecting with an insulin needle into fat) this would make things easier. I am thinking we could take it with us if we need a boost, before sex, something like that. However, if we keep up our natural test up with a good test booster (not natural but like the one I just posted about) that won't be necessary as we are injecting testosterone anyway. 
    It may be that thats all the test we can handle anyway, lets see how these 3 guys turn out, but this is a treatment for PFS and it could lead to the condition curing due to all the stimulation. Hopefully this will not confuse you guys, I didn't get this far by stopping when I found something that works. It is amazing, suspension is never going to change for us (till we recover) that I can promise. However, that doesn't mean we can't add things to make it tailored to individual people.

     I will say that everyone should be on suspension, good test levels or bad, doesn't matter, it really does stimulate 5ar every time, and reduce itself (and any other test in your system at that time to dht).
#1405

You narrowed down the cure and MOA for researchers, dramatically (if they ever study PFS).

How does suspension (or any testosterone ester) stimulate 5ar production? Sorry. This has probably been answered in the thread already.

#1406

This is an interesting thread but I have some questions (hope they haven’t been answered yet):

Why is testosterone suspension working different than a SERM like Tamoxifen? Both increase testosterone for a short period of time, but Tamoxifen loses its effect after about 3-4 weeks (just like normal TRT). Why does testosterone suspension stay effective after 3-4 weeks and Tamox or standard TRT doesn’t?

#1407

This description is exactly how clomiphene works except it is genrally used as a fertility drug rather than to treat breast cancer. It’s mechanism of action is the same, but perhaps the mechanism of delivery and potency is stronger in one versus the other.

I have tried clomiphene along with many others on this forum without success. Why are you even bringing this up if you’ve already allegedly found the cure?

By the way, hCG is just as estrogenic as a SERM because it induces endogenous production of T in the testicles. The only difference is a SERM selectively blocks the estrogen receptor at specific sites.

#1408

Why not triptorelin. Jqd, one guy got cured by taking triptorelin and then tribulus, he said that his androgen receptors got back on when he used tríbulus, maybe it happened to you with your gh intake and that’s why you respond to testosterone now.

I don’t like to think about the idea about using testosterone for the rest of my life, so I’ll ask you if you want to do a pct to see if you can live without it?

Also I’d like to ask ihatepropecia if he tried testosterone sust. I intend to do a cycle after recovery just to get a better body that propecia gave me, if this testosterone sust is good to cutting and gives no sides and no AI is needed so I would like to try after being cured.

Jqd I don’t know if you blocked me but what do you think about cases of people that got cured with many tribulus or tongkat ali or others test boosters cycles? What is the theory behind it? Why some people just respond to it and not other hormones like testosterone, hcg, tamox, arimidex, people like beekay, hopingformore.

#1409

I hatepropecia did use Test Suspension and somewhere within the last few pages he documented how he felt. which was in short all good but check it out.

I think the only relevant posts in the future will be updates from guys using the protocol.
that’s all we need to read right now to get guys understanding that it works and maybe convincing other dudes to jump into the pool instead of their feet resting on the at the edge looking down

#1410

Haven’t you tried tribulus by now? There is no science behind any recovery with tribulus. It would be nothing more then a coincidence. Why would anyone PCT off of testosterone if they were on it because they had low T. Guys that PCT off of T are taking high doses for body building not therapeutic doses.

#1411

i think that still you have to add some anti e for test sus to avoid aromatization?

www.roidsseek.com/injectable-steroids-3 … -6959.html

#1412

im guessing .25 of armidex only because JQD is saying that the comversion to dht is so quick with Sus that u wont need much AI if any at all

#1413

Yes, definitely, I wrote a post I have erased, I thought I was having some estrogen rebound that did not affect my body but just my mind, it turned out to be something else, a tea that I drink every night from a Kava bar locally here. I drank it and all is fine, still feeling good, progress still steady.
So far 2 of the 3 guys have injected suspension, I will not provide minute to minute updates on them, I will let them post when they are ready, this is getting too exhausting for me.

#1414

Hey guys and JDQ, I’m a “new” user, i.e. haven’t posted enough to send private messages (or receive any, either?). At any rate, can you or one of the guys who received a PM from you send me an e-mail with the online store to purchase the suspension JQD is using? An arimidex source would be a good plus, too. In exchange I promise to make a thread once I get the materials and post my progress. I know you have no basis to trust me, but I want to get out of this mess as much as all of you. I had to drop out of college for the semester if that “proves” anything. Thanks.

#1415

UPDATE!!!

Dr Jacobs emailed me an hour ago saying:

Bio T- 422 (110-575) says in the 67th percentile which is down from the last time. was in the 90’s last time

BUT! estradiol is 30 with a ceiling of 29!!!
I was driving when I read this and really took the wind out of me.

So JQD im pulling in a favor for your skills my friend. what do you make of all this?

Do you think the high estradiol is the reason for my kinda low libido and sensitivity in the genitals.
Please get back to me im kinda freaking out over this

#1416 
 Well, it is consistent with everything I have been saying, I recommend letrozole 1.25mg a day and testosterone suspension 20mg a day or every other day (whatever you can handle). If not letrozole, arimidex, but I would not use Aromasin, you will be stuck in the same place forever, I have been down that road. 
 This is an estrogen dominance disorder, everyone on this forum should be on an AI as far as I am concerned, at worst it can make everyone feel better, at best it can induce recovery. I would keep arimidex and letrozole on hand, see which one works best for you.
#1417

omg im praying that this is the cause and now easily fixable.

now I gotta do the whole email thing with Jacobs. he’s so busy. this is gonna take a while unless I just bite the bullet again and pay the 175 for a 20 min phone call to get the ball rolling quicker…i dunno

#1418

On a general note, its really tough to compare 2 separate readings of BW. T fluctuates during the day and is influenced by a lot of things. The ideal way to measure hormones would be to have many readings through the day for weeks at a time under same conditions. Of course measuring hormones like that isn’t realistic. Instead we have to make do with snapshot readings that measures t levels at only one random instance during the day.

#1419

Email Anne the woman, she will get the script and all done, $175? I paid $500 per phone call, you are lucky!

#1420

That’s what I have been saying all along, which is why it’s good to learn what each hormone feels like