Fin2005's Labs - New results posted 8/11

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

First test results - 08/09/2010, 8:21 AM (No supplements)

Dihydrotestosterone - 47 (25 - 75) ng/dL

3a-Androstanediol Glucuronide - 96 (260 - 1500) ng/dL

Testosterone, Free, Bio, and Total, LC/MS/MS
Testosterone, Total - 597 (250 - 1100) ng/dL
Testosterone, Free - 88.0 (46.0 - 224.0) pg/mL
Testosterone, Bioavailable - 192.4 (110.0 - 575.0) ng/dL

SHBG - 30 (8 - 48) nmol/L

Albumin, Serum - 4.8 (3.6 - 5.1) g/dL

IGF I, ECL - 247 (64 - 334)

17 Hydroxyprogesterone, LC/MS/MS - 144 (32 - 307) ng/dL

DHEA Sulfate - 347 (110 - 370) mcg/dL
FSH - 3.2 (1.6 - 8.0) mIU/mL
LH - 5.8 (1.5 - 9.3) mIU/mL
Estradiol - 44 (13 - 54) pg/mL
Cortisol, A.M. - 24.5 (4.0 - 22.0) mcg/dL

I got a follow up 24 hour urine test done for cortisol in December which came back normal, I don’t have the actual result but thats what they told me.

#2

Second Set of Test Results - 05/14/2011, 8:10 AM (Maca powder)

DHT - 36 [25 - 75] ng/dL
3a-Andro Gluc - 142 [260 - 1500] ng/dL

FSH - 3.2 [1.4 - 18.1] mIu/mL
LH - 4.9 [1.5 - 9.3] mIU/mL
TSH - 1.43 [0.40 - 5.00] uIU/mL
Free T3 - 2.9 [2.18 - 3.98] pg/mL
Free T4 - 0.9 [0.7 - 1.5] ng/dL

Estradiol - 16.8 [0 - 32.2] pg/mL
Testosterone, Bioavailable - 308 [131 - 682] ng/dL
Testosterone, Free - 104 [47 - 244] pg/mL
Testosterone, % Free - 1.9 [1.6 - 2.9] %
Testosterone, Total - 560 [300 - 1080] ng/dL
SHBG - 33 [11 - 80] nmol/L

Cortisol, AM - 21.3 [4.3 - 22.4] ug/dL

Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy - 45 [30 - 150] ng/mL

Seems my 3a-G went up a little but its still out of range low, everything else seems pretty normal(?) besides cortisol which came back high out of range the first time, this time its in range but near the top of the scale…I still feel the same, zero libido, erections, etc. Any input appreciated.

#3

Your Estradiol and SHBG are fine, your free T is fine. This suggests that your cortisol is indeed in the high part of the range, although you haven’t tested it*. Having RT3 would help to understand your cortisol levels, but you haven’t tested it either.

Your T4 is miserable. You should discuss with your doctor the option to increase it. High thyroid levels will 1) make your receptors more sensitive to T/DHT and 2) make your hypothalamus accept higher levels of T. A few of the people who recovered/improved by hormonal therapy were taking Synthroid (i.e. bioidentical T4). If you have low thyroid symptoms (constipation, low body temperature, etc…) you will get better if you push your FT4 up to 1.5 (top of range). Note, though, that increasing thyroid hormones usually will result in a decrease in cortisol level. If you go on this route, discuss with your doctor the option of supplementing with something to increase cortisol (pregnenolone, progesterone, or hydrocortisol)

*Saliva test measures free cortisol; serum measures total cortisol. Therefore, serum cortisol is useless. For example, last time I had it it was in the lower part of the range, while the saliva test, taken in the same day, was several times above the range.

#4

The funny thing is, he only ordered TSH, I checked the boxes for Free T3/T4 on the order myself. There was no box for reverse T3 or I would have added it as well. I had a 24 hour urine cortisol test done after the initial serum came back high, I don’t know the exact value but was told it was in range normal. I had some constipation in the past but haven’t had any lately, I think it has more to do with what I eat. And I don’t think I have a low body temperature. So for follow up tests what should I get, a saliva cortisol, and reverse T3? And if you take T4 is that for life? Or can you just boost your level, stop taking it, and remain at that level?

#5

The “normal range” of cortisol is so huge that it is meaningless. In urinary cortisol, you measure how much cortisol you excrete in 24h. If it’s low-range, it certainly means that at some point of the day it is low. If it’s high-range, it certainly means that at some point of the day it is high. If it’s mid-range, it doesn’t mean anything.

It’s good to see that you want to be responsible for your health. Many people do not have that kind of determination. Nevertheless, I think that if you want to seek recovery by hormonal therapy, you should get a doctor that is willing to test other hormones beside the sex hormones.

If you have $140 to spare, you can purchase a saliva cortisol without a dr requisition at aeron.com/new_page_27.htm
RT3 is very important too. I’ve seen some cases where people have high RT3 despite high cortisol, although that’s usually not the case.

Good question. It seems that in some cases, it is possible to recover by raising the metabolism (T4 and cortisol). Once your metabolism is high for a couple of months, you can drop everything and it should stay high.

The stories of some men backup this statement. Take a look at Dury’s and JN’s stories. They both used T4 and dropped it at some point. Dury’s health and hormones remained nice and high after stopping T4; JN hasn’t reported back since he dropped it. They both define themselves recovered.
Also, this guy robocopp recovered by taking also T4 (not sure if he dropped it, though). steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/585761-finasteride-induced-serious-problems.html

#6

First test results - 08/09/2010, 8:21 AM (5 years off Propecia)

Dihydrotestosterone - 47 (25 - 75) ng/dL

3a-Androstanediol Glucuronide - 96 (260 - 1500) ng/dL

Second Set of Test Results - 05/14/2011, 8:10 AM (6 years off propecia)

DHT - 36 [25 - 75] ng/dL
3a-Andro Gluc - 142 [260 - 1500] ng/dL

good your 3a-G has gone up and DHT came down, more DHT being metabolized. did you take any thing to improve this? or just natural. What are you using to treat your symptoms.

#7

If you have high rt3, 90% of the times it’s because you have low cortisol (T4 doesn’t find any cortisol to match up and therefore gets dumped into RT3 rather than T3) . In this case, the usual treatment is boosting cortisol (through pregn, prog, or HC) and taking T3. Taking T4 with high RT3 will make RT3 increase even further.

#8

When I got the first set done I wasn’t taking anything. The second set I was using maca powder but I was using it in a cyclical way, like take it for one week, take a day off, take for another week, take two days off, etc. I got that blood drawn towards the end of the jar so I hadn’t actually used it for a few days when that blood was drawn. And I only noticed an actual change in how I felt for about 2-3 days during the first week of taking it, then it went away. So I’m not sure if the change in my numbers was just a natural change or if it was from the maca. From maybe 2007-09 I tried some different things I read about on here, that didn’t work for me: DIM, Tribulus, Tyrosine, Quercetin, Green Tea Extract, Mega EFA Fish Oil, Sustain Alpha. Since then I haven’t taken anything besides that one jar of maca.

#9

Got blood drained yesterday, should have results in a couple weeks hopefully. The testim gel will be here tomorrow. On the fence whether to start it or wait on these results first. Anyways, this is what I got.

Bioavailable Testosterone
FSH
LH
Estradiol
DHT
3-alpha androstanediol-glucuronide
IGF-1
17-Hydroxyprogesterone
DHEA Sulfate
Androstenedione
Prolactin

TSH
Free T3
Reverse T3
Free T4

CBC
PSA
Liver Function Panel
Vitamin D

24 hr. urine: 17-ketosteroids.

Saliva: Cortisol.

#10

Wow thats a good list. Good on you.

#11

You are getting a complete thyroid panel and saliva test, on top of testing sex hormones. Very very good.

Can I ask you: what are your sides? In particular, how are:

  1. your energy
  2. your sleep
  3. your libido
  4. your erections (can you hold an erection while having sex/masturbating)
  5. your hair loss (not that I or you care, but this is helpful to estimate progesterone)
  6. your mental acuity (to estimate pregnenolone)
#12

  1. Seems ok most of the time, I work a job unloading trailers by hand, but only for a few hours each morning. When I get home I usually don’t do much for the rest of the day but it seems more mental than physical, like I just can’t get motivated. From about April to the beginning of June I played in a rec. soccer league. The first and second game I didn’t feel right at all, kept feeling like I was going to throw up and/or pass out. But after those first two games I felt fine for the rest of the season. Some days I start to feel drowsy like taking a nap. Sometimes I do sometimes I don’t. Not sure if it means much.

  2. My sleep seems to be okay also. I can remember dreams sometimes so I must be getting deep sleep. When I first get out of bed in the AM though I always have this slight balance/coordination thing, I’m not dizzy, but its kind of like when you’re just slightly buzzed and you go to take a step and feel kind of off balance. Also 99% of the time my dick is like its dead when I wake up.

  3. Non-existent. This and ED/PE are my main issues. I can look at porn/masturbate but the drive to do so is missing and has been for a long time now. I had a slight return of libido for a couple days when I was taking maca so at least I know now that it can still return.

  4. I can keep an erection only if it is being stimulated. Its like I’m missing some component in between erection and climax. Before my dick would just be rock hard on its own and I could masturbate/have sex for a while before ejaculating. Now my dick won’t get/stay hard on its own and to get it all the way hard like it used to be, takes me to the edge of climax where I now have a hair trigger ejaculation reflex.

  5. My hair loss has been progressing at basically the same pace since I started and stopped taking propecia. I have a receding hairline with a tuft in the middle. The receding parts have been progressing, the tuft in the middle is still there. My head has been feeling more itchy lately, maybe just from being out in the sun more, who knows.

  6. Seems ok also.

#13

Cool. Since your energy is fine, I would say that your cortisol is not bad at all, except possibly in the morning, when you feel drowsy. Also, nocturnal and morning erections are generally present if the ratios involving T, E2, and cortisol are ok.

Pregnenolone is ok if you don’t have brain fog or depression.

Assuming you have decent cortisol levels, lack of libido can be caused by 1) lack of DHT or 2) lack of T4 (which makes your receptors more sensitive to androgens).

Looking forward to seeing your results.

#14

I usually start feeling drowsy later in the day like the afternoon. Sometimes I’ll take a nap, sometimes I try to stay awake until my normal bedtime. Nocturnal and morning erections are very rare for me, and when they do occur they are soft. The only time I get brain fog is in the morning when I first get up (5:30 AM), and coincides with the balance issue. But it seems to be kind of random, doesn’t happen all the time. By the time I finish work around 10 AM I usually feel ok.

Thanks. I wanted to make sure I get all this stuff tested before I start using this testim gel. Unfortunately we all know what can happen if we dont have any “before” values and our system gets screwed up “after”. Even though these numbers are my screwed post-propecia ones at least I’ll know where I was when I started TRT.

#15

Results from blood drawn July 9th, 2011 at 8:53 AM (No supplements)

FSH - 3.4 [1.4 - 18.1] mIu/mL
LH - 4.0 [1.5 - 9.3] mIU/mL
TSH - 1.35 [0.40 - 5.00] uIU/mL
Free T3 - 3.3 [2.18 - 3.98] pg/mL
Reverse T3 - 229 [90 - 350] pg/mL
Free T4 - 1.2 [0.7 - 1.5] ng/dL

DHT - 27 [25 - 75] ng/dL
3-Adiol G - 137 [260 - 1500] ng/dL
Estradiol - 23.3 [0 - 32.2] pg/mL
Testosterone, Bioavailable - 277 [131 - 682] ng/dL
Testosterone, Free - 93 [47 - 244] pg/mL
Testosterone, % Free - 1.9 [1.6 - 2.9] %
Testosterone, Total - 482 [300 - 1080] ng/dL
SHBG - 29 [11 - 80] nmol/L

Prolactin - 5.9 [2.1 - 17.7] ng/mL
17-Alpha Hydroxyprogesterone - 116 [27 - 199] ng/dL
Androstenedione - 0.650 [0.330 - 1.340] ng/mL
DHEA Sulfate - 254 [100 - 432] ug/dL
IGF-1 - 226 [115 - 307] ng/mL
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy - 40 [30 - 150] ng/mL
PSA - 0.61 [0.00 - 2.50] ng/mL

Cortisol, Saliva, 4x (07/12/11)
8 AM - 0.081 [0.025 - 0.600] ug/dL
12 PM - 0.077 [LT 0.010 - 0.330] ug/dL
4 PM - 0.050 [0.010 - 0.200] ug/dL
12 AM - 0.017 [LT 0.01 - 0.090] ug/dL

17 Keto Steroids, 24 hr urine (07/10/11)
17 Keto Steroids - 12.4 mg/L
17 Keto Steroids - 20.6 [5.3 - 17.6] mg/d
Creatinine, UR - 98 mg/dL
Creatinine, UR - 1627 [1000 - 2500] mg/d
Collection Time - 24 hr
Collection Volume - 1660 mL

Complete Blood Count - Automated Diff Type
WBC - 4.6 [4.0 - 11.0] K/uL
RBC - 5.06 [4.30 - 5.70] M/uL
HGB - 15.5 [13.7 - 16.7] g/dL
HCT - 45.9 [40.0 - 50.0] %
MCV - 90.7 [80.0 - 100.0] fl
MCH - 30.7 [27.0 - 34.0] pg
MCHC - 33.8 [32.0 - 35.5] g/dL
RDW SD - 41.1 [37 - 53] fl
PLT - 172 [150 - 400] K/uL
MPV - 9.2 fl
Neutrophils - 62.4 [40 - 80] %
Lymphocytes - 23.7 [15 - 45] %
Monocytes - 11.7 [0 - 12] %
Eosinophils - 2.0 [0 - 7] %
Basophils - 0.2 [0 - 2] %
Neutrophils ABS - 2.9 [2.0 - 7.3] K/uL
Lymphocytes ABS - 1.1 [1.0 - 3.4] K/uL
Monocytes ABS - 0.5 [0 - 0.8] K/uL
Eosinophils ABS - 0.1 [0 - 0.5] K/uL
Basophils ABS - 0.0 [0 - 0.1] K/uL

Hepatic Function Panel
Total Protein - 7.6 [6.4 - 8.3] g/dL
Albumin - 4.7 [3.5 - 5.0] g/dL
Bili, Total - 1.0 [0.1 - 1.5] mg/dL
Bili, Direct - 0.2 [0.0 - 0.3] mg/dL
Alk Phos - 77 [38 - 110] U/L
AST - 26 [5 - 40] U/L
ALT - 24 [5 - 50] U/L

#16

Your thyroid hormones look decent.
Your cortisol looks somewhat low, but, since you have no low-cortisol symptoms, it’s probably fine for you.
Your E2, SHBG, and prolactin are fine.

Nevertheless, your total T is low, which causes your DHT to be low, which causes your libido to be low.

The normal solution here, I think, would be to boost your T (via TRT, hcg, clomid, or supplements).
But all pfs people who tried this treatment saw their symptoms worsen. The only ones who benefitted from boosting T are JN and Dury, who were concurrently boosting cortisol or thyroid hormones. My personal opinion is that boosting cortisol (via pregnenolone or progesterone) and thyroid hormones (via T3 or T4) is a prerequisite to successfully boost T. But, since I’m no dr, you might want to ask your dr’s opinion about this curious pattern we’ve seen among pfs people.

#17

Thanks for your input. I think I’ve probably always been in the lower part of the range for testosterone, even before using propecia. I have no body hair besides armpit and pubic, and I only need to shave every 4-5 days. I’m 31 now but can easily pass for 18-20. But before taking propecia a thought alone would have me sprouting rock hard boners and I could fuck all night long. Now my dick only functions as a urination device, sexually its dead. I’m actually using Testim gel right now to boost my testosterone level at my drs. recommendation. 50 mg a day for 30 days. I’m on day 13 today and haven’t noticed any difference yet. I kind of doubted it would work anyways. As far as having low DHT I’m not sure about that, it seems my level has went down with each test, but my 3-adiol G is always below range…

#18

Similar thing here. I had mid-low T before propecia (tested 2 days before propecia), but was super horny all the time. Although I hadn’t tested it before propecia, I think I had high DHT; otherwise, I would have not been that horny and my hair would have not be falling. You might have had a similar hormonal profile pre-fin.

Are you going to take another blood+saliva test while on Testim?

#19

Should be getting blood drawn this weekend. Not sure what all I’m getting tested besides bioavailable testosterone and estradiol though. If he sends the same type of order as last time I’ll probably tick more boxes again.

#20

Results from 08/03/11 (Day 21 of 30, Testim gel 1%, 50 mg daily)

FSH - 1.3 [1.4 - 18.1] mIu/mL
LH - 0.9 [1.5 - 9.3] mIU/mL
Estradiol - 15.1 [0 - 32.2] pg/mL
SHBG - 29 [11 - 80] nmol/L
Total Test. - 360 [300 - 1080] ng/dL
Free Test. - 66 [47 - 244] pg/mL
Bioavailable Test. - 204 [131 - 682] ng/dL
Free Test. % - 1.8 [1.6 - 2.9] %
IGF-1 - 231 [115 - 307] ng/mL
Vitamin D - 36 [30 - 150] ng/mL
TSH - 1.88 [0.40 - 5.00] uIU/mL
Free T3 - 2.9 [2.18 - 3.98] pg/mL
Reverse T3 - 200 [90 - 350] pg/mL
Free T4 - 1.1 [0.7 - 1.5] ng/dL

Cortisol, Saliva, 4x (08/02/11)
8 AM - 0.130 [0.025 - 0.600] ug/dL
12 PM - 0.091 [LT 0.010 - 0.330] ug/dL
4 PM - 0.083 [0.010 - 0.200] ug/dL
12 AM - 0.013 [LT 0.01 - 0.090] ug/dL

DHT - Pending
3-adiol-G - Pending

So basically my testosterone levels and my estradiol are at the lowest they’ve been out of any blood tests I’ve had done, and I’m rubbing in 50 mg of testosterone a day…wtf? I was thinking maybe its not being absorbed properly, but then why would my LH and FSH be on their way to complete shutdown…also I don’t get the downward trend on my Vitamin D, I’ve been out in the sun more and more as of each draw, but my level has been decreasing with each reading…man this syndrome is bullshit. Also not sure if I should take hcg or something to restart my LH/FSH or just stop cold turkey and hope they come back online on their own, I’d rather not take any more pharmaceuticals…

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