Exploring a Hypothesis Involving Night Vision

General Discussion
#1

Hey guys, I’ve been doing some basic research on the biochemistry of the erection cycle and created a hypothesis that is tangentially connected to other sensory functions. Before I bias any of your responses with the specifics of my inquiry, will you please give a very basic answer to the following question?

Have you had any specifically good or bad night vision prior to taking finasteride and did you undergo any significant change afterwards?

Each and every answer is valuable information whether it was good, bad, or average so please take a few seconds and just write a one or two line post. After I get a decent amount of responses I’ll explain my line of reasoning since I am investigating a particular linkage in the erection chemical reaction that I think may be causing our problems. It also can explain why Viagra does not work fully for many men with PFS so it would be especially helpful to hear from guys in this category.

Thanks,

Frustrated

#2

  1. My night vision is worse post fin.

  2. Viagra works if i cycle it.

#3

Can you be a little more specific as to how it was before/after? This could refer to a handful of scenarios - Your night vision got worse but it could have started poorly and deteriorated or it could have been great to begin with and remains fairly good (etc).

Thanks

#4

No it was great pre fin, then when crash occurred i can not see in the dark, everything is just black.

#5

Hey guys, sorry for the repost. Just figured a better way to investigate my curiosity would be to create a short template that could address all issues in a concise fashion. Please answer the following if you would be so great to help out.

  1. How acute was your day vision prior to taking finasteride? Did this change after you developed PFS?

  2. How acute was your night vision prior to taking finasteride? Did this change after you developed PFS?

  3. Have you experienced any fibrosis or change in penile tissue structure since developing PFS? If so, can you briefly elaborate the extent to which this has occurred?

  4. Have you tried treatment with PDE-5 inhibitors (Viagra, Levitra, Cialis)? If so, will you please describe the extent to which they worked and whether or not the effect has waned over time?

Thanks guys. If what I am look at is going to be relevant, there should be a clustering of certain outcomes among PFS patients. I will explain more if I get enough results that look interesting.

#6

Day vision and night vision have been affected by PFS but it is hard to tell. Sometimes it seems OK then other times it is terrible. Going from light to dark can cause terrible problems.

Cialis works vry well for erections but viagra does not, or at least did not when i tried it once.

My penile tissues have changed: overall shrinkage, bending to the left, testicles and penis VERY rubbery, loss of healthy color.

#7

I have terrible night vision now and don’t remember having any issue before Fin. Something else I’ve not linked to this but it seems to make sense. I went for a Lasik Eye Surgery free examination and they confirmed there that I do suffer from night blindness about a year and half ago.

#8

Yep, my night vison has also definately suffered since finasteride. I don’t know exactly when the problem started, as I took fin from 2001 to 2005, but the last 3/4 yrs I have really noticed the difference at night. Street lights particulary blind me when I’m walking down the road.

#9

check your retina, i had retinal tears in my both eyes. i dont know if they fin related.

#10

BTW both solonjk and gefinauser reported improvements in their eyesight after their treatments for prostatitis with Georgiadis

#11

Yes, to the entire eyesight. Also deeper and more colourful vision, the second last treatment peaking this to very deep, resonating lights with great dynamic difference. I could see more to left, right, up and down. I could SEE all the differences even to a distance far way more accurately… like it was switching from regular TV to HD tv. I know two other person who improved eyesight as well, one being a regular prostatitis patient althrough one of the worst ones he has treated. His gastronomical problems improved as well but that’s a different story. I know this sounds bullshit or crazy but it’s true yo.
I think smells and reflex were faster but f*ck, i need to draw a line somewhere because lot of this is just subjective or retrospective estimations and the latter two are much harder me to be sure in a good way.

i know one kos guy went through eye surgery or had problems with eyes after crash.

Also, my night vision has been great and my vision was really good before finasteride. My nightvision literally DISAPEARED when i had my worst adrenal fatigue… when just green tea’s cafeine was enough to beat my to a zombie until 8pm (think about that!!) when i got little of my energy back. This was 2 months after crashing, you can read about this from my story. It was the peak of my adrenal/chronic fatigue.

I’ve read some of you guys complaining about this and all i could explain this is that when your chronic fatigue (thus your energies are being drained the best) the worst, you loose the edge from all your senses and cognitive capabilites, including eyesight. But you weren’t asking for opinion on this but this is how it has seemed to me from my experiences.

#12

Hey guys,

Thanks for your responses. However it is important to get answers for all of the questions though since I suspect the symptoms may be interrelated. Also, the distinction between night vision and day vision is important as well since they aren’t processed by the same group of photoreceptors. If you could give a few more details about viagra usage, penile structure, and day vision it would be very much appreciated.

#13

  1. Excellent. Yes, loss of acuity and ‘static’ grainy vision.

  2. Excellent. Yes, terrible nightvision - even trouble seeing dark colours.

  3. Yes. To an extreme extent.

  4. Yes. Worked well first time, now stopped working. First time taking a PDE-5 inhibitor i accidentally took 100mg of Viagra and had severe side effects such as ‘blue vision’, tracers and halos around lights. Cialis gave me flu-like headache symptoms first time I used it - (so bad it actually woke me up in the middle of the night) - I was also almost able to achieve a normal erection with the first pill, now it does almost nothing.

#14

  1. My vision was and continues to be bad. It’s a bit worse since off Fin, particularly reading distance.

  2. This is hard to say. In the almost two years off Fin I am at home almost every night. Just too fatigued usually to go out and do anything. But, I have not noticed any marked changes in night vision.

  3. I’ve experienced penile shrinkage and tissue changes to an extreme extent. Tissue rubbery and much smaller in both length and girth. Still have constant dull to moderately severe ache daily in my penis even now going on two years off Fin.

  4. Cialis and Viagra do not seem to work for me after about a week on them. Even if I manage a complete erection it’s much smaller than before so I don’t see the point. I havn’t been taking these drugs because of their limited effect and the fact that I really have no interest in sex.

#15

  1. I’ve always needed glasses. Pretty strong prescription… but, very stable.

  2. Never really noticed that I had a night vision problem until last year of fin and first year off. Halos around lights like I was wearing slight dirty glasses. Overall night vision bad. The halos seemed to have gone away, but, night vision is still crap.

  3. I have a very slight twist… Kind of wrinkly penis skin… Seems thin… Veiny.

  4. First time I tried 10mg of cialis, I literally had a hair trigger erecetion for 3 days. Maybe by the 4th time I needed 20mg… 8th time or so, 20 mg would last a day. If I go off for a long time, 20mg will work fine. Small daily doses don’t seem to work. Levtra does very little.

#16

Does anybody else have any responses? Of course people with decent vision and who are fine in the other areas would be great to hear from as well.

#17

1. How acute was your day vision prior to taking finasteride? Did this change after you developed PFS?

Vision has always been pretty bad; I’ve worn glasses/contacts since I was about eight or nine. Though my reading vision, which has always been very good, has seen a marked decline in the time I’ve been off fin. I started a new job that involves a lot of computer work around the same time PFS symptoms set in, however, so I can’t say for sure whether the decline in reading vision is related to fin use or simply to all the computer work.

2. How acute was your night vision prior to taking finasteride? Did this change after you developed PFS?

When wearing glasses or contacts, night vision was always fine. I haven’t noticed much of a change in the ten months since getting off fin.

3. Have you experienced any fibrosis or change in penile tissue structure since developing PFS? If so, can you briefly elaborate the extent to which this has occurred?

None.

4. Have you tried treatment with PDE-5 inhibitors (Viagra, Levitra, Cialis)? If so, will you please describe the extent to which they worked and whether or not the effect has waned over time?

Haven’t tried any of these. Erection problems for me have not been a huge issue.

#18

I should add that I haven’t noticed much change in my distance day vision since quitting fin. My reading vision is the only part of my eyesight that’s noticeably deteriorated, but, again, I can’t say for certain whether that change is tied to fin.

#19

I have developed whats called “Ocular Migraines” since quiting fin. They started when I was trying clomid. I had about 4 events while on clomid (5 months), and about 4 in the 2 years since quiting clomid. Basically a zig-zag pattern in your peripheral vision that lasts about 20-30 minutes. People who get migraines get them usually before the headache. Luckily I don’t get the headache. I found a web site that describes what I get exactly. Pretty scary when they first started. Basically I’ve screwed up something else in my brain by trying to fix what fin did. Here’s a description:

allaboutvision.com/conditions/ocular-migraine.htm

#20

So basically it seems pretty common place that a handful of guys report suffering from visual side effects but I don’t really know what to make of it. I’ll delve a little bit into what I was thinking.

So this line of reasoning started when I was reading about the basic process which occurs when one gets an erection. I’ll summarize it very concisely but more details can be found at a lot of websites including the following: mastersmensclinic.com/male_sexual_function.htm
The website is very basic, but I recommend this brief reading to any of you guys to become a little bit more conversant in the physiology of erectile function.

  1. Initially, a man receives arousing stimulation and the brain sends a signal to release nitric oxide.

  2. In turn, nitric oxide catalyzes the creation of a molecule called cGMP (cyclic guanosine monophosphate) which is responsible for relaxing the smooth (involuntary) muscle in the penis and allowing blood to flow in. Of note, DHT is a principle regulator of these two chemicals in particular.

  3. After sexual activity is finish and orgasm is completed, other chemicals Phosphodiesterase 5 and oxytocin are released which cause the degradation of cGMP. With the degradation of cGMP, the smooth muscle in the penis constricts once again and the penis returns to a flaccid state.

  4. Notably viagra, cialis, and levitra all work as PDE5 inhibitors. They inhibit PDE5 which in turns prevents the degradation of cGMP and allows the continuation of an erection. However, in order for the medication to work, the patient needs to have a reasonable amount of cGMP and nitric oxide. PDE5 inhibition will not do much if there is not enough cGMP to begin with.

Explanation: Viagra does not seem to work very well on a handful of PFS patients (myself included) and I feel this fact can provide some clues as to where we may look to isolate the main problem. This leads me to question whether there is a deficiency or problem in the production of NO and cGMP. cGMP also plays a wide role in the human body, the extent of which is beyond my comprehension but is interesting nonetheless. It is known for regulating penile structure and integrity and can also be found in the rod cells in the eye. The rod cells are used to distinguish light/dark input and I was wondering if it was in some way connected to the poor night vision that many men experience. A common effect of viagra is in visual distortion with respect to lights and night vision (I get these occasionally but they do not terribly bother me). I wanted to distinguish between day/night vision since I don’t see any connection to how this chemical could disrupt day vision. The function of the chemical is very complex so I am not trying to pretend to offer a grand explanation but just wanted to float the idea and see if any interesting feedback is returned.

It is also worth noting that there is a supplement that could partially alleviate the situation, if it is in fact related to NO and cGMP. L-Arginine and L-Citruline are precursors to nitric oxide and have been shown to improve erectile function in men with pre-existing problems that took a 5g daily dose of the former. I have not seen any substantial experience reports about this supplement on the forum but I have been taking it for the past week.

Anyway, just wanted to drop the idea and any responses and thoughts will be appreciated at this point. Personal experiences with L-Arginine and Citruline will be welcomed as well.