Experienced Steroid User (an insight based on my experience)

Therapeutic Efforts Pharmaceutical
#1

I have been lurking on this forum for quite sometime after my brief brush with finasteride… I myself took the drug for 9 days @ 2.5mg E.D, upon finding this website I freaked myself out and immediately stopped usage thankfully. HOWEVER… after reading and reading and seeing the ABOSULTE ASININE procedures some of you guys are doing for PCT (recovery) issued be endo’s has blown my fucking mind… some of these procedures will drive a man into suicide alone. Now I’m not here to argue, or discuss my own issues, I’m here to answer questions and hopefully provide some resolve. I myself am on TRT and was on TRT at the time of my finasteride usage.

My experience is in: (note I have failed and had success based on my own experience and usage with these drugs, I ate the shit and drank the gold so to speak lol in experimenting with these in the past)

PCT drugs ( arimidex, clomid, nolvadex, aromasin, letrozole etc (sarms and serms) and ofcourse (HCG most values I’ve seen on here are useless and the understanding people seem to have of it is invalid)

Steroids: testosterone enanthate, propionate and cypionate , masteron, deca durabolin, tren, equipoise, winstrol, sustanon, dianabol, turnabol, superdrol etc

Natrual: tongkat ali, tribulus and 6-oxo (from my own usage)

#2

for those who are suffering from persistent side effects and have bloods to show your HPTA has not come back up to speed, I would recommend a basic pct protocol much like that of a steroid user (me) applies after a cycle. Finasteride effects the HPTA in a very similar way as it leaves the HPTA shutdown and in a away of confusion just like the ending of a steroid cycle. Though not impossible it is very unlikely to recover from use of simple supplements much less naturally just like with steroids. Pharma grade drugs require Pharma grade protocols to fix Pharma grade damage. In all honesty and reality most endo’s don’t really have a clue as to what is needed to recover from such dibilitating HPTA stressors and unfortunately wind up doing more harm than good by prescribing and administering off the wall protocols. (such as arimidex and letro only protocols or clomid and arimidex).

I’ve read countless posts about people who tried said such protocols (arimidex only or arimidex and letro or with clomid etc etc) and find it worsening… NOT A SURPRISE… Armidex is known as a suicide drug as it completely inhibits and eliminates estrogen (which can leave with far worse and debilitating symptoms and effects and thus leaving libido and sexual function worsened.) Arimidex and it’s even stronger accomplice letro, SHOULD NOT be used in conjunction with any PCT protocol. These are very strong AI’s used with EXTREME high dosages of steroids ex: 750mg to 1000+mg of testosterone a week ( EVEN THEN) the dosage is limited to .5mg EOD at MAX. I simply could not imagine running .5mg ED or EOD for someone with low T… total devistation… I had accidentally carried on my Arimidex into my pct, BIG MISTAKE… I felt like my brain was being chemically dissolved, weird sensations and not to mention I could barely close my hands due to dry joints from complete depletion of estro.

I offer my help based on my KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE through 8 years of successful and FAILED trials of steroids and PCT’s

My experience is with:

Steroids: testosterone propionate, enanthate, cypionate and sustanon. Masteron, equipoise, deca durabolin, dianabol, turanabol, anadrol.

PCT drugs: (SERMS AND SARMS): nolvadex, clomid, letro, aromasin, HCG

FOR THOSE WHO EXPERIENCED A CRASH AND HAVE NOT RECOVERED:

I would suggest running a simple pct protocol such as

Clomid week 1-4: (day 1 100mg) followed by 50mg ED until total end of 4 weeks.
Nolvadex week 1-4: (week 1-2 40mg ed, week 3-4 20mg ed) ex: 40/40/20/20
HCG week 1-4: (week 1 1000iu ED (5 Days) week 2 off (week 3 1000iu ED (5days) week 4 off

Upon this I would cycle natural supplements periodically to influence natural production and keep it strong IE: tribulus (i find ultimate nutrition brand to work the best and they hold patent), tongkat ali, zinc, L-arginine etc.

Things to note: I’ve read many people on propeciahelp etc quit the clomid and pct protocol not even a week in by reporting “no change, not helping, made me feel worse etc” well yeah… It takes longer than a week gents, it will make you feel weird and bad, it’s changing your hormones, you have to stick through though. This is why most steroid users can’t come off, they’re afraid of losing that high.

AGAIN I offer help based ON MY EXPERIENCE ONLY, I am NOT a doctor.

#3

But are you affected or not? Were you able to recover?

#4

I was effected, my prostate suffered and I had general prostate pain to include uretha pain. It till continues but has subsided greatly. I can’t say I suffered any penile disturbances or issues down there. I did notice libido dwindle down but has since returned and I attribute that to my anxiety of freaking out. However as stated I was on trt while taking this drug and continue on trt. I believe that protected me. As I stated above, I’m not interested in discussing my issues as much as I am into providing some help or guidance for those who are seeking recovery through PCT protocols. As I have extensive experience through trial and error with such drugs.

#5

Hey Bodill32,

I’d appreciate your thoughts on this article from your experience as a bodybuilder…

bit.ly/1nnGcnS

He suggests using naloxone to help prevent HPTA shutdown when using hormones. Do you think this is possible?

#6

I call bullshit on it, not in the fact that it’s not possible but more so on the gamble and simplicity of telling the body “yes then no”. First, this is in regards to being “on cycle” to prevent being shutdown. Which I find not possible and certainly not willing to take a gamble. You’re sending two different signals to the body by doing so. One is sending an overload thus your body shuts down production as it recognizes an excess and another signal telling it to stay on. I would not recommend diving into that as what you guys are suffering is a shutdown.

Shutdown requires a reboot or kick start. Thus leading you to dive into PCT protocols. I REALLY… REALLY… would highly encourage some of you who are interested in trying a PCT protocol to try the one listed above. This arimidex and letro or aromasin only shit ED these guys are getting prescribed is absolute ASININE. I’m sorry but it is and will not help you, only cause more damage. THEY ARE NOT PCT DRUGS. Aromasin MAYBE and SOMETIMES is used INTO PCT for it’s properties but IT IS NOT A PCT DRUG and ADEX CERTAINLY IS NOT.

Though the above is a rather short explanation, I can dive into more personally and cater a PCT/maintenance cycle (12 week full PCT) of which I have used with great success from steroid induced shutdowns.

I offer this only on MY EXPERIENCE. I am NOT a doctor.

#7

Hi Bodill32, your BB experience is highly appreciated and welcome here. Thanks for your feedback!

One comment about not using an AI during PCT. The problem PFS sufferers have is that they cannot produce enough DHT. So when T is increased during a PCT cycle, DHT cannot keep up and that means E cannot be kept in check. Usually more of T gets converted to DHT. But for a sufferer more T gets aromatized into E. I have read reports here that people’s E shoots up 400% while using a SERM. That’s why AI is needed for a PFS sufferer. A normal guy would produce enough DHT and does not have this problem. It’s also very important to taper off the SERM towards the end of the cycle to avoid E dominance.

HCG on the other hand is probably only required if the PFS sufferer has experienced shrinkage of balls. Did not happen in my case for example. It can happen for a BB coming off cycle because the exogenous T is so suppressive to endogenous production. HCG can be suppressive to LH/FSH. So not absolutely necessary for a PFS guy I think.

So the standard PCT cycle might need some tweaks for a PFS guy.

Again, I highly appreciate your feedback! It’s all theory for me at this point but I’m about to embark on PCT cycle soon.

#8

hello

what do you think about SARM like ostarine or lgd? we should avoid using it during pfs?

#9

Hey bro, your help is much appreciated. I have a long history of AAS as well but am not on TRT. I actually have really good natural numbers. with the PCT protocols you outlined above…you are not suggesting doing all 3 drugs at once, but picking either clomid or nova or HCG correct? Thanks again

#10

Yes all at once. The hcg would be subject, depending on how long you’ve been suffering or the intensity of your atrophy.

#11

Bro I have liquid nolva and clomid. I have used both in the past for pct back when I used to cycle. I just don’t know how good the liquid research chems are. I don’t have hcg and never used it before. I have been suffering with pretty bad pfs for 1 year last month. I am already in good shape and eat well. I am sleep deprived badly ever since I first crash about a year ago. I have experience to brief(about 48 hours) recover were I felt just about 80 to 90 percent better. Any way I think I will run your above pct protocol absent the hcg. I will do that 4 weeks on for weeks off for about 3 cycles…what do think? My bloods always come back great although my free test has been lower all this past year than back before I crash. Used to always be at 19_24…now it is never over 10.1. Although something has changed in my bloodwork over the last 3 months. My last two labs have showed an elevated tsh. 5.4 and then 6 weeks later 5.9. I have been experiencing ache joints, can’t sleep, anxious as hell and horrible brain fog. Then add the sexual sides of zilch libido and chronic cialis use ,cuz I now have out of nowhere complete ED, and a horny as fuck gf that pregnant now. I so want to be my old self again. I miss living. I hope this works. I thing consistency is what’s key though. Consistency is greatness. My last bloodwork showed total test at 845 and estro dial at 29. I have been taking trib and dhea for the last 4 weeks and while my test and estro both went up…I felt no improvements. Bro do you think it would be of any benefit for my to just cycle test cycles of about 300 - 40 mg test per week for 4 weeks on then for weeks of pct protocol above. Then maybe follow that with 2 weeks of trib and dhea before starting that over a second time. Do think something like that could be good or just start out with the PCT as you outlined?

#12

Stomper, I think guys like Bodill32 are lucky, didn’t crash just had a little prostate pain… So he comes here with his standard TRT/PCT suggestions that work for normal guys. I really wish there was a straight forward connection to hormones and all the issues with have from Fin, If it was that easy tons of guys would have recovered. Its really that simple.

#13

If you haven’t done it then please gents don’t bash it. and HCG does more than just bring the boys back, it has many properties regulating multiple hormones and raises LH. I would use it if you could. Your sleep and anxiety could but due to elevated cortisol and over all fucked up HPTA. a proper pct could POSSIBLY put you in check and cure you of most if not all of your problems.

#14

I’ve also used this in a very debilitating recovery from a hard cycle. but haven’t really needed it any further due to it’s potency.

I WOULD HIGHLY ENCOURAGE THOSE WHO ARE SHUTDOWN HARD OR FOR LONG TIME TO TRY THIS.

clomid week 1-4: 50/50/50/50 (50mg ED for 4 weeks)
Nolvadex week 1-6: 40/40/20/20/20/20 (40mg ED first two weeks, 20mg next four)
D aspartic Acid: week 4-8 (3g ED)
Tribulus by ultimate nutrition week 4-8 ( 4caps a day)
Tongkat Ali week 4-8 (simple dosage or recommended by manf. , add this in just to help along and for maintenance)

I would also suggest HCG, 500iu X2 a week, week 1-8 or 1000iu EOD for one week, off one week, the on another week. then cut it ( some people respond to high dosage and others do better with lower extended) I personally prefer lower extended.

Adex week 1-end of PCT: .5mg AS NEEDED( for estrogen ONLY if you are extremely prone and are suffering painful/puffy nips, even though nolvadex does handle estrogen related sides)

Cycle the DAA and Tribulus with Tongkat Ali POST pct periodically for maintenance and health at a dosage you see fit ( with 2 weeks off minimum in between cycles)

Good luck gents, I will pray for all of you and I hope some of you take this offering and run it.
source for these drugs are www.1napsgear.org

www.eroids.com for other sources and checks

#15

so to understand correctly, the 1000 HCG EOD is used the first week, the second off, and then used again the third week, and after that it is stopped (so only during first three weeks)?

#16

correct, it’s used a pct protocol to jumpstart the HPTA, testes function and regulate hormones which are produced in the testes as well as raise LH. HCG is also a strong 5AR activator and is used to treat infants with 5AR deficiencies.

I will no longer be on this forum or any other PFS forum for that matter, I encourage those of you who are suffering and have been debilitated due to HPTA shutdown to please view and try one of the PCT regimes above, you can email me @ Howard_32@live.com for any questions or guidance and I would and will be more than happy to guide and help anyone.

I will say prayers for all of you, God bless!

#17

Dr. Mohit Khera @ Baylor has already been using HCG and T on PFS guys without success. This is what makes PFS so unique. Dr Crisler as well. He is VERY experienced at administering TRT, HCG, PCT’s ect. He has not been able to fix a single PFS guy. So again real PFS is unique. Its not just a roid shutdown.

#18

While it’s true that Dr. Crisler and other docs have a bad track record, to say they haven’t helped a single person just isn’t true. I’ve seen people on this forum who have even been cured through his treatment. The user “Quint” is the first to come to mind if you want to look him up.

#19

How do you know that the recovery and his treatments are not merely a correlation.

Again there is NO treatment that addresses the route cause. If there were, we all wouldnt be here.

Support the studies. :smiley:

#20

Are you seeing Dr. Crisler? These doctors will tell you up front that they cant help much.