Bodill32, thanks for the thoughts, but people have tried already similar protocols and they may alleviate the side effects but do not usually work. I wish all the newcomers had the patience to do some due diligence and avoid yet another series of unsubstantiated claims. I’m just waiting for the next user claiming that raising DHT is the solution, we have them every so often, and some of them, like you, don’t even suffer from PFS. Regarding the protocol that you advise, incidentally I can even say it first hand that it doesn’t work. As a matter of fact, because of the Arimidex side effects, I used 50mg Clomid daily without an aromatase inhibitor for a while. The result? At the end of the cycle my blood test showed that I had Estradiol levels so out of scale that were higher than a menstruating woman in her twenties (these are the actual words of my endo).
I had my E2 crushed down to undetectable levels. Its really sucked ass. I took a 1 week break on all T boosters and AI. My T level at my next test was 378 (348 - 1197) , E2 was 14.8 (7.6 - 42). Is that a bad ratio? I started on TRT a few days later. I have not had any new blood tests since starting TRT. So far all I am getting from TRT is mild energy increase and more nocturnal erections. I still have numbness, shrinkage, digestion issues, ect…
His pct methods are actually perfect and Ingenious in many diff ways. I suggest u guys take his advice if you have low T or low normal T.
And YES! I Am AWARE THAT THIS WILL NOT cure us . But if done right (according to what this guy is saying or somthing close to it) it has a good chance at restoring your hormone levels.
Just like justquitdut would always say you NEED to fix you total and free T levels if you ever want a chance at recovery.
Pvdl said this does address the rout cause and he is one hundred percent correct!
But the rout cause (what ever the hell that is) crashed are hormone levels as it’s a known symptom, side effect of this syndrome and you need to fix this by what ever means you feel the most comfortable with. I do not agree with everything justquitdut would say and how he would go about saying it; but he’s dead on with this issue!
I fixed my crashed total and free T levels with a 2 year clomid restart and NO If did not make my symptoms go away. But I know enough through my 4 and a half years of research that the only chance we have at recovery is creating the correct and I mean exactly the fucking correct enviornment in R bodies inorder for recovery to be a chance. Step 1 for creating that correct enviornment is fixxing your hormone levels, bottom line.
Step 2 is having s toxic free body that you can only acheive through an intense body cleanse via a fast followed my a very strict diet to keep your body clean and toxin free as much as possible. I’m 4 and a half years in and I’m taking step 2 very seriously right now. I am seven days in on s juice/water fast. I am going to be coming out of this mentally stronger, the type of strength one needs to stay on a gluten free, organic clean diet consisting only of meet, fruit and veggies. Other than that only clean clean carbs being eat at the right times right after work out.
im not sure what step 3 is yet but as you guys are im still figuring that out.
And yes I totally agree that we just straight out have diff and higher conversion to estrogen rates than body builders do. That’s one thing this professional body builder can’t Relate to. I hope he’s still reading this but I needed 1mg of armidex EVERDAY to keep my estrogen in the normal range during my clomid treatment during which time my T levels where slightly about the 1000 range.
Get a non PFS guy, give him clomid, get his T levels slightly above the 1000 range and fuck no his estrogen would not have been as high as mine was.
And yes armidex does have terrible side effects such as making labido worse, muscel aches, joint pain and in my case the adding in of armidex made my Ed and shrinkage worse. But you need to take it, why?
The male body is not made to have estrogen levels that high! Bottom line.
Just fyi… I’ve sent along the two major posts with PCT info to Dr. Goldstein to see what he thinks.
Goldstein said my last set of labs were awesome and no changes were needed to my treatment plan. Called me a ‘rock star’ for my efforts and research in reaching such a healthy state. Yes, I DO feel awesome, and I can’t point to a single side effect of PFS that’s bothersome as of the past few months.
Having said this, I am STILL on TRT (.40ml weekly), HCG (.25ml twice weekly), Anastrazole (1mg weekly), low dose Prozac. And then there’s the gym workouts 5 days a week, clean diet, mostly gluten free, periodic detox and a VERY LONG list of vitamins and supplements which I still take daily.
So… I can’t in all honesty claim to have a full recovery if I’m still dependent upon all of the above to stay this way. But I’m in the best shape of my life mentally and physically as a result.
My last goal, and one of the reasons I still come here, is to find a way to incorporate a PCT plan to cycle ON/OFF the TRT regimen and allow my body to produce hormones naturally, eventually. Now that my labs came out in top shape I can begin to think about the next step. It just can’t accept a doctor telling me I’ll have to be on TRT for life without even trying a solid PCT plan with natural solutions.
2 years ago, I got fed up with TRT and went natural with CDNuts plan, but all my labs got much worse. I suppose the PCT wasn’t dialed in, or even a proper PCT for my age (47 at the time). I just turned 49 and finally have my life back. But it cost me a career, my wife divorced me, lost my kids and friends, not to mention more than a million in lost wages. I’m still on disability thanks to PFS. But the future is finally looking bright. There IS hope for you guys to recover because I’ve finally made it. Just note: it took me 5 years to get where I am, and only 3 years since I began trial and error treatments. Time is definitely a factor, but I now believe recovery time can be shortened if you actually DO all the necessary work and spend whatever it takes to obtain all the things needed. Many answers already exist for those willing to hunt on this site.
Hang tough guys
huge congrats on reaching such a positive and healthy state. I recall you somewhere saying you took DHT supplements as well? what would you say has helped you the most to get where you are, your current protocol?
thanks and I hope you continue to feel better.
Yes, I forgot to include the DHTCream. (Andractim)
Definitely a key player in restoring DHT levels. Very important part of my recovery.
Dr. Goldstein recommended a low dose regimen on DHT. Just two small amounts about the size of a peanut on each side of rib cage.
I had previously done a cycle using the Mfr recommended dosage and didn’t see the improvements I hoped for. It was a waste of DHT by using too much imo. Going with a low dose will make the two tubes last about 6 months.
Yes, Thank you for the attachment… Very good notes.
Just adding to this with more info on my recovery… I plan to consolidate all my recovery stuff and create a new thread to share at some point.
The neurological damage makes it very difficult to be positive, motivated, hopeful or even functional at even a basic level on a daily basis.
I spent a very long time in despair, depression and hopelessness. But eventually found some helpful things to change how I think, improve brain performance and put things in perspective. These are just some of the books I’ve read on the road to recovery and I found all of them very helpful.
Books to read:
BulletProofDiet - Dave Asprey
Dave is a computer hacker who utilized his analytical skills to hack his on bio-system to lose weight and balance hormones. I big emphasis is placed on food products which contain mold toxins. I found the bulletproof coffee idea worked very well for intermittent fasting, but don’t agree that his coffee is the only one to make it work.
The Adrenal Reset Diet - Alan Christianson
Great insight on Adrenal function and how foods/diet impact us. A guide to restore adrenal function.
MAN 2.0 Engineering the Alpha-A Real World Guide To An Unreal Life (forward by Arnold Schwartzenegger) - John Romaniello and Adam Bornstein
For the younger guys who can actually handle REAL weightlifting without risking injury. I have a bad back, so my workouts are modified, but the concepts in this book are phenomenal and likely to produce the best results in a short amount of time.
Why Zebras Don’t get Ulcers-Robert M. Sapolsky
The acclaimed guide to Stress, Stress-related diseases and coping. This is a very detailed book on how our stress response works, how it can get out of whack and what to do about it.
The Power of NOW - Eckhart Tolle
Although I am Christian, I found this book to offer great insights on how to process your thoughts, emotions and to put things in perspective.
Deadly Emotions: Understand the Mind-Body-Spirit Connection That Can Heal or Destroy You-Don Colbert M. D.
I had no clue how damaging emotions can be until I read this. A true eye opener, even beyond PFS recover it’s a good idea to read this one.
The Art of Living - The Classical Manual on Virtue, Happiness and Effectiveness - Epictetus (He was born a slave in A.D. 55 and taught in Rome until A.D. 94) Yes, that’s nearly 2000 years ago. The sayings are short but packed with wisdom and insight. Highly recommended and very useful.
Lastly, I found that subscribing to Lumosity and practicing the Brain Training games daily was a HUGE boost to mental performance. The site tracks your performance, gives you scores and compares your performance with other people in your age group. Doing this can give you a much needed boost in confidence and hope. My own scores DOUBLED in less than 6 months and my performance is better than the median for my age group.
Towm8er, how do you cycle the nootropics? I feel like my brain is such a mess right now and wanted to start working on that before anything, but am not sure where to start. I’m afraid of taking them too often and end up building a tolerance.
how can you be sure our HPTA shutdown when people’s blood test results all come back normal? what blood tests or any tests in general can we see that are similar to that of a previous steroid user like yourself to show what you are saying is true or is indicating that we have some problem?
Noots are not necessarily a ‘cycle’. I use them when I need to focus, study, concetrate or feel kinda foggy.
This is an excellent site for learning about Nootropics.
http://www.longecity.org/forum
Root of brain health forum…
http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/169-brain-health/
And this is a great post on experiments and findings:
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/63228-lostfalcos-extensive-nootropic-experiments/
Don’t be afraid of them. I’ve studied and found noots to be a much healthier alternative to Adderall. Dr. Goldstein prescribes Adderall for the brain fog and motivation. But I think the noots are a safer choice, just expensive when you add em all up. Adderall is neurotoxic, but there are supplements you can take to counter this effect.