Eight Years of Horrendous Sleep Without Knowing it Was Caused by Fin

Member Stories
#1
  1. Where are you from (country)?

Canada

  1. How did you find this forum?

I was considering stopping the drug and I googled something like “Stopping Propecia” to see if people had a libido surge after stopping and the site was in the results I’ve got.

  1. What is your current age, height, weight?

37 years old, 6 feet, 175 pounds.

  1. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?

Yes. I run and do weights.

  1. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?

Mostly common healthy food and fast-food once in a while.

  1. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?

Hair loss.

  1. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?

11 years.

  1. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?

Must have been 25 years old. I started in 2001.

  1. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?

The first time at 29 and the second at 36 years old.

  1. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?

Cold turkey the first time and tapering off the second.

  1. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?

Propecia first and Proscar the second time I used it.

  1. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

1 mg/day and a quarter of a pill with Proscar.

  1. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?

The serious problems began maybe after 3 years of use, but thinking about it know, the’re might have been things that were wrong before that.

  1. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[x ] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[x] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[x] Loss of Morning Erections
[x] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[x] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ ] Watery Ejaculate
[x] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[x] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[x] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[x] Confusion
[x] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[x] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[x] Slurring of Speech
[x] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[x] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[x] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[ ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[ ] Testicular Pain
[ ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[x] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[x] Muscle Wastage
[x] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[x] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[x] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[ ] Other (please explain)

The first noticeable symptom I’ve experienced was a pain in what might have been mi liver two years after the beginning of the drug. The biggest problem I’ve had has been insomnia: problems falling asleep, waking up in the middle of the night or at 4-5 o’clock in the morning and not being able to go back to sleep. Also, the quality of my sleep became horrible. I usually felt worst after sleeping than before going to bed. I also began grinding my teeth while sleeping, as if I was in an extreme state of stress.

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

None. I was hopping that things would get better with time.

  1. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

N/A

  1. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

  2. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I’ve taken finasteride for something like 11 years and I’ve had several problems for 8 years, but since the problems we’re not sexual, I’ve never thought it came from the drug until I found this site and saw that many people here had the same symptoms that have had for many years.

There’s two problems I’ve had during the first years that could be related to the drug, but I wouldn’t know for sure. I had the two around the same time, 3 years after I began using it. The first is the one I was mentioning, what looked like a liver pain. It subsided a year or two after, actually when I began having mental problems that are clearly related to finasteride. The second one was a genital yeast infection that I’ve got from a girl I’ve slept with and that I couldn’t get rid of. I really don’t know if the difficulty I’ve had getting rid of it is related to finasteride, but I’ve needed a circumcision to fix the problem because the creams and pills just wouldn’t work.

At the time, things looked pretty normal at a mental level, until I began having problems with the girl I was living with. Things got ugly with her and I began to sleep really badly. That was and still is my main problem and all the other mental problems that I began experiencing seemed related to the fact that I wasn’t able to sleep and rest anymore (difficulty talking, concentrating and thinking strait, extreme tiredness and apathy, weakness, loss of muscles, loss of libido, loss of desire of anything whatsoever, loss of all emotions, extreme anxiety…).

I first thought my state was related to the bad brake-up I’ve had and I went to see a psychiatrist, but it didn’t help me at all. The truth is I didn’t like that girl I was with so much so it didn’t make sense. After a while it was obvious that I was out of reach for psychological help and so I stopped. One doctor prescribed me some antidepressant. I took it only once and I wasn’t able of doing intellectual work. Intellectually I wasn’t the same person anymore, but reading and thinking was about all I had left and I knew that I would kill myself if I lost that, so I stopped taking it.

Well, anyway, I spent all these years trying to fix my sleeping problem, trying all types of sleeping pills, thinking it would solve all the other mental problems I had, but nothing worked. Before, when I had difficulty falling asleep, I would drink 3 or 4 beers and I would sleep very well all night and feel A1 the next day. Now, if I did that I would sleep maybe 3 hours, wake up and stay awake the rest of the night. I’ve been living this hell for something like 8 years now.

I’ve stopped finasteride after encountering this site by pure chance and reading that some people using that drug had the same sleeping and mental problems I had. Now it’s been a year since I’ve stopped and I haven’t had much improvements. There are some days that are better, but I’m still living in some kind of hellish haze.

At first I thought it would just go away with time now that I’m not taking the drug anymore, but I see that I will have to try some of the things that had been discussed here on the forum. It’s a comforting to read about people going through the same things that you have.

I knew that something was fucked up in me, but I never ever thought about finasteride as the cause of all that. It also changes my perspective on things to know the cause of the problem, because I didn’t have much hope after all that time fighting this without any result.

#2

Hey man,

I’m from Canada and was a long time Propeca user, as well.

I would try ZMA at bedtime to see if that helps you sleep. If not, try some OTC anti-fungals like Candida Stop or C. Away.

#3

Hello Livingdead

I can relate very much to what your going through. Propecia was the last thing I thought of that was causing the insomnia. I remember checking the side effects label multiple times, and not seeing insomnia listed. Frustrating

It seems sleep improves for many of us on here, not as good as it was pre-propecia, but better. Personally I found a little improvement in the first year.The second year off, even a little more improvement. I took remeron every night for the first year, it was a lifesaver. Gained a good deal of weight, but it was still worth it. Still take it here and there. It does cause a slight hangover type feeling, but if your sleep is as bad as mine was, the slight hangover will pale in comparison to the lack of sleep

#4

Bluejaysfan, does ZMA help you fall asleep rapidly or it helps you more with the quality of sleep you get? Both are problems for me, but I really want to find something that will make me fall asleep because I prefer to sleep a little and badly rather than not sleep at all. What happens to me all the time is that I will try some sleeping pill one night and it makes me tired and sleepy, but I won’t fall asleep and the next day, I’ll have to go through the day with the effects of a sleepless night and of the drug that still is in my body. I’ll try ZMA anyway to see if it changes something. For the anti-fungals, I have to check if I can get them here, because I’m in South America right now. So people have improved their sleep with anti-candida treatments?

kngreen60, I sure hope things will change naturally with time. Maybe I’ll give Remeron a try. A doctor once prescribed me some other antidepressant to take as a sleeping pill (apart from the one I mention in my first post), but it didn’t work. I have no difficulty understanding your point about the negative effects of some drugs that you are willing to accept in some situations. My goal is more to be able to function more or less and survive while I wait that, hopefully, the sleeping processes will normalize themselves.

#5

I had at least a six month stretch of waking up at 2am… 4am… Seemed like every few hours. The whole time my sleep was fucked I made zero improvements.

The ZMA helped me fall asleep and stay asleep a little longer. Little by little I got out of the funk and my head cleared up immensely. I was lucky in that respect.

If you try ZMA maybe take a few nights off in the week. See if it you can tell a difference.

The reason I mention over the counter anti-fungals is because when I started an anti-fungal recently it gave me an energy boost. I don’t think it does anything for erections… but, the energy boost through the day helps me have a good sleep and more importantly a better wake up.

It’s all a mystery and it could have just been time that healed my sleep… but, I feel your pain, man. The lack of a good sleep, I really think ruins any chance of improvements.

I didn’t try sleeping pills.

#6

bluejaysfan,

I went to some stores this afternoon for the ZMA but it looks like it’s not easy to get in the country where I am right now, and the cost will be a bit high if I order it from the US considering it might not work for me. I’ll keep searching for it tomorrow though because I prefer this kind of stuff to sleeping pills.

I doubt they have anti-fungals here. In the pharmacies and the stores where they sale vitamins and herbs, they don’t have much. The market is not developed like in the first world countries. Anyway, I’ll check it looking for the ZMA.

In my situation, maybe the best thing would be fasting. Did you try fasting? And did you read about people doing it and having good results for sleep?

#7

I have found L-arginine on occasion, 1-2mg before bed on an empty stomach, provides a deeper, more restful sleep.

As L-Arginine is a precursor to Nitric Oxide and NO is involved in the sleep/wake cycle, that may have something to do with it.

#8

Mew, I actually saw that stuff today when I was looking for ZMA. I’ll buy it tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks, man.

#9

Welcome Livingdead,

You’re the first person on this forum, that I have seen mention that they were grinding their teeth when they sleep. I had some damage to my teeth during my time on propecia. Of course I had no idea it was related to this horrible drug.

Now still even though I have been off of propecia for more than 2.5 years the dentist asks if I grind my teeth at night.

#10

Mew, I took L-Arginine last night. It wasn’t sufficient to make me sleep and I had to take liquor to finally fall asleep, but I could see it had some effect on me. I only took 1 g though and maybe 2 g would have worked better (you meant to say grams and not milligrams, right?). The thing also is that it’s really hard for me to sleep if I’m not going jogging or to the gym during the day and I didn’t do anything yesterday because I want to gain some weight to be able to do a long fast. Maybe it would have worked if my body would have been tired from the exercise. I’m also excited about doing the fast and it was hard to stop thinking about it when I was in bed last night. Anyway, I think it improved a bit the quality of the sleep I had and I’ll keep taking it a couple of days to see what happens.

bostonusa2009, thank you. Me teeth are also damaged from the grinding. For a while, I even had to wear a mouth piece when I was in bed to protect my teeth. I think I’m still grinding them, but it’s not as bad as before.

#11

I had some results with intermittent fasting so I thought I should write about it. First of all, the first year after quitting fin, I had absolutely no improvement. That’s when I did a 20-day water fast that didn’t cure me, but changed some things. I would say that the most important were that it cleared a my mind and made my emotions a lot more normal. For years, I had been living with emotions completely out of whack. That is when I had any, because most of the time, I was completely just numb. Sleep seemed to be fixed at first when I ended the fast, but as I wrote elsewhere, I got sick, had to take some drug and right away it was back to being screwed up just like before.

During the months after the fast, there wasn’t any change in my condition. The only thing worth mentioning is that a doctor prescribed me clonazepam and, for the first time since the beginning of this, there was a drug that could put me to sleep once or twice a week. That is if I had been to the gym or being jogging that day because otherwise it doesn’t work. I would feel groggy all day the next day, but at least it gave me some relief from the anxiety that comes with lack of sleep. A couple days a week, I would also drink myself to sleep. Life was a succession of hellish days with little to no pleasure whatsoever. The idea was just to keep going, being able to go to work and hoping that things would end up fixing themselves some day.

Anyway, last January, an opportunity for a new and better job presented itself. I knew I wasn’t going to be able to do the job if things stayed the same. I decided to try intermittent fasting. I think I began with a 6 hour eating window, but seeing my sleep was already getting better the second week, I shortened it to 4 hour. The first 3 or 4 months, I was very serious about it. On week-ends, I was even going to the gym fasted, which boosts your growth hormone production. This is something I couldn’t do it everyday because I was unable to sleep at night when I did it. During that period, I think I only drank 3 times. I didn’t need to do it to sleep anyway. What was particular about the way I slept is that sometimes I had the impression that I hardly slept, that my mind would be racing all night, but the next day I would feel good. I also noticed that I would be able to fall back asleep when I woke up very early in the morning, and it wasn’t possible before. Mentally, I also had many improvements. I can now speak a lot more easily. Before, there were words I just couldn’t pronounce and I had to use other words, which my speak very complicated and weird. I wouldn’t say it’s completely back to normal now, but I don’t need to do that anymore. Social interaction has also become a lot more easy now. I use to live in some haze and fell very weak. Speaking with people was pure hell. I usually tried to avoid people the more I can, but now, I sometimes feel like an urge to interact with people. Sexually, the most striking is that I began having very strong morning woods even though I was masturbating every night to sleep. The kinds that hurt and that give you problems when you need to take a piss in the morning. And even though I was masturbating once or twice a day, the orgasm was always very strong (had an anhedonia issue since crashing and it was worse when I masturbated often).

Anyway, as I said, I was very strict with my fasting window for the first 3 or 4 months. It’s harder at the beginning, then it becomes easier because your body gets used to it. Seeing the results also makes it easier. On the 4th or 5th month, I started to slacken a bit my discipline, extending the eating window and drinking once in a while. There wasn’t any regression in the improvements I had. I’m still doing it and will continue with it. Now life is really a lot easier and better. Something I would mention is that I was going to the gym almost everyday. I was going to the gym almost everyday before doing intermittent fasting, so I’m not saying that all the improvements might be explainable by the fact of going to gym rather than doing intermittent fasting, but I did feel better and slept more easily when I had been to the gym instead of been jogging (if I don’t at least go for a run, there’s no way I’m going to sleep).

As I said, I’m continuing with intermittent fasting. I don’t know if it can cure you in the long run, but it’s something more people should try. Now, apart from this, I’ll be following the methylation protocol to see if it can completely heal my sleep. I’ll be reporting about it in a couple of weeks.

#12

Great to here about your improvements, LD!

I think you’ll have success with methylation, too.

#13

Thanks, bluejaysfan. So far, seems like I’m responding well to the protocol. I feel a bit more alive mentally.

#14

Wow, great news! :slight_smile:
I’m also doing this type of fasting (I call it the “warrior diet”). It’s about three monts and things seem improvin a little bit.

Can you explain me what’s that “methylation protocol”?

Thank you very much.

#15

There’s a thread where droit is making the hypothesis that finasteride causes glutathione deplation (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7178), and there’s a protocol that people with chronic fatigue have been following to fix this. I decided to give it a try and it seems like I’m having results with it, but the problem is that I’m not able to sleep without sleeping pills when I take the supplements, so I haven’t been able to do it every day.

#16

I had the same problem, try to cut down the B12 and/or the other supps, but I would begin with the B12.

#17

Rab, I did cut the doses of everything I take, just like you told to me in a PM about two weeks ago, but it’s still impossible to sleep when I do the protocol.

I realized this week-end that I might have been doing something that is counterproductive. I’ll comment later on that. Who knows, maybe it’ll make a difference. Fuck, I feel kind of scared.

#18

Hey LD
I remember your sleep problems sounded very similar to mine. I found out I was not only grinding my teeth but I was also clenching my jaw. This causes me to have horrible tension like headaches about 3-5 days a week. I thought how crappy I felt was a result of lack of quality sleep. Now that I’m more aware of it, I notice on the bad days my jaw muscles are very tight also. I tried a boil-and-set mouthguard and my sleep has been much more quality. Might be worth looking into of this sounds familiar.

#19

I actually think grinding teeth, gum problems and jaw problems relate to one of my theories of what happened to us. I am curious to know how many people have these associated oral/dental problems. Many women get TMJ and jaw problems, in fact around 95% of all TMJ is related to female/hormonal problems.

#20

kngreen60, I’m also using a mouthgard at night right now. I used one in the past, but I had to stop because the seasonal allergies I had had become permanent and I couldn’t breath with my nose at night. Allergies are controlled now, so I can use it again, but my molars have been worn-out by the grinding. While extracting a molar, I had cramps in the jaw and the dentist said it was because I was clenching my jaw at night, so I’m also doing it. I didn’t get headaches from the clenching. In my case, I didn’t see a difference in the quality of my sleep with the mouthgard. Thanks for mentioning it all the same.