Effects of Higher Dose Progesterone on PFS

Therapeutic Efforts Pharmaceutical
#1

I’m starting this as an extension of a progesterone thread that was started by “Light at the end”, here’s the original link to his protocol which involved a lower dose of progesterone:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7026

Over the past 7 months I’ve been using progesterone at a dose of around 5 mg a day as suggested by “Light at the end”, on for two weeks then off for a bit. I’ve felt little to no improvement in this time and it should be noted I wasn’t using Deprenyl as “Light at the end” suggested but have been using the Tongkat (cycled every two weeks), D3, Macca (sparingly) and B complex. In the past few months I’ve found that upping my progesterone to around 15 mg a day and sometimes up to 20 or 25 mg has shown significant improvement when coupled with Tongkat Ali, Vitamin B and Vitamin D3. Typically 5mg progesterone actually made me feel worse and sometimes horrible where higher doses of 15 mg make me feel better and more clear headed. I’ve felt no improvement in my libido. The benefits have been:

-Stronger nocturnal erections
-Lifting heavy weights used to make me feel awful afterward and even the entire next day. I can now lift heavy weights as long as I apply 15-20 mg of progesterone
-Test boosters used to give me a horrible lethargic feeling as well as brain fog. Now they no longer give me brain fog but I speculate they still aren’t as strong as they would be if I did not have PFS.
-More energy
-Clearer thinking
-Less anxiety
-Deeper voice
-Better sleep, earlier to bed earlier to rise

I’d like people to help try out the higher dose of progesterone along with test boosters, specifically tongkat ali and the high dose b-vitamins so I can see if this is just me or if a majority of PFS may respond well to this. Here’s an excerpt from an article that I found which actually suggests 10-12 mg is the correct dose for men:

articles.mercola.com/sites/artic … rone2.aspx

This dose is for men who are not suffering with PFS so it’s a possibility we need more and how I feel when I am on 15 - 20 mg supports that idea.
Just a disclaimer, this has not cured me but has made me feel better. I would only go into this if you’re able to handle the possibility that you could feel worse while doing this.

Attached are two files: the “5 mg” shows a 5mg dose (between the quarter and the dime) I measured out of progesterone. I usually do three of these for a total of 15 mg or four for 20 mg. The other picture “Biovea” shows the exact type of cream I’m using, it’s bioidentical progesterone is extremely cheap, I apply every dose to my scrotum.

If you want to test this out just add your log in here so we can see if there’s something more here than just one persons positive experience. The exact protocol would be:

-B vitamin complex 100 once a day
-At least two tongkat ali 1:100 strength pills a day or if you can afford it four pills a day split between two doses
-Experiment with higher doses of progesterone (I use 15mg all at once)
-Vit D3 at around 3000 iu
-lift heavy weights (optional)

Good luck, hopefully we can find out more about this as a potential way to feel a little more normal.

I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice. Consult your physician.



#2

How is your blood test? Did you feel your balls increasing in size?
When I felt the brief recovery my balls were heavier, bigger and then all the things I said in light at the end thread happened and also in the same way he did it would happen, in stages. I’m interesting in beekay idea too.

#3

I haven’t had blood work done, I’m going strictly on how I feel. I forgot to mention that my testicles definitely get larger when on this protocol, thanks for bringing that up

#4

That’s great, balls getting bigger is a huge sign of improvement.
What do you think increase your balls size? Tongkat ali?

I think this protocol has nothing to do with progesterone. Because everybody who took progesterone without any test-booster, felt worse. I don’t know if elb got bad again when he smoked weed and drank beer or if it was a discontinuation of test-booster while doing progesterone alone.

When I used progesterone alone I think my balls decreased in size and I lost some sensitivity.

One interesting thing that I will look forward is if SERMS has something to do on Estrogen Receptors, blocking them, because beekay said when he introduced tamoxifen and clomid to his protocol he felt even better and gave him results faster. What I think is that the SERMS blocked ER, letting the test-boosters to work more on AR, to produce more AR, because our body doesn’t see difference between estrogen and androgens, the questions is, is it the same thinking related to receptors? If our body knows we have too much ER then our AR will be low, but when we block ER and our body knows we’re lacking something, does the production of AR by test-booster would increase even more? That’s the thing I wanna know. Because I think beekay had good levels of testosterone by taking high amounst of vitamin D, so the logic behind the SERMS would be just what I just said.

#5

my testicles size also decreased with progesterone and pregnenolone

#6

I agree that 5 or even 10 milligrams of progesterone causes people to feel badly, shrinks testicles, and all around is not effective in most cases. The question that this topic raises is whether or not higher doses of progesterone, specifically 15 to 20 milligrams has a positive effect as it has with me.

Keep in mind I have been a long term user of tongkat ali, more than three years I have used this without progesterone and it has not had the effects that I feel now. So in my experience it is not the tongkat ali but the combination of it along with progesterone, vitamin d3 and vitamin B.

#7

So maybe now you’re feeling the up and down.
I was talking to thetigershull and he said tongkat ali increased his balls size and gave him a better base line.

Also elb tried progesterone first alone and felt worse, then he tried again with test boosters and got cured.
So there are 2 conclusions. Or progesterone is not good and will make us feeling bad or it will just work with test boosters. Since guys responded the same way the guys on forum that got cured, with the same ups and downs but without the cream, I would think that the cream is not important and maybe just test boosters are responsible. I will read more about beekay protocol and what he did prior.

#8

if you are experimenting with PCT protocols and attempts at recovery, please refer to my topic in this forum ( experienced Steroid user). I hope to aid in some guidance and explanation through my experience in my own trials and errors. True experiences and tried protcols otherwise unkown and tested to endos and uro’s.

#9

-I was doing tongkat for many months with 5 mg progesterone and did not feel as good as this. This means it’s not tongkat Ali with 5 mg progesterone, d3,and b vitamins.

-I did tongkat Ali before starting progesterone and did not feel this good. This means it’s not just tongkat Ali.

-I kept doing the same dosage of tongkat, d3, and vitamin b and increased my dosage of progesterone and felt noticeably better than any of the previously mentioned protocols.

This means the progesterone must have something to do with it.

#10

Maybe progesterone decreased your estrogen. Tribulus just worked on me when I was on progesterone, but again, I felt really worse on progesterone then I increased tribulus a lot, I was taking just 2 capsules and then took 6 and got better. I was taking two weeks prior but in low dosage and nothing, then progesterone made me worse then I increased tribulus and got 70% better.

#11

I think I may know what’s going on with me and what I’ve been doing lately and why i’ve seen results.

The picture posted below reminds us that progesterone increases the sensitivity of androgen receptors. Let’s keep in mind that a receptor can either be taken up by estrogen or testosterone, not both ; well if we use progesterone to make those receptors more sensitive but at the same time there is too much estrogen floating around then we just made our body pick up even more estrogen than before we took progesterone which explains why people feel bad on it… But, if you first take free testosterone boosters along with an AI to cut down on the estrogen and THEN take progesterone to make your body more sensitive to hormones, there will be more testosterone to bind to the receptors instead of estrogen and you’ll experience what I have, feeling better all around. I had just completed a cycle with an AI to get rid of some of the estrogen so this all adds up for me.

taking a higher dose of progesterone will make the receptors even more sensitive and also help cut out the estrogen.

So in a nutshell, get rid of excess estrogen, boost free testosterone, then in this window of opportunity use high dose progesterone to re-sensitize the androgen receptors.

I’ll add that I went back on the AI yesterday and today to test and positively felt the first increase in libido any protocol has ever given me.I needed sex yesterday and today again which rarely, if ever happens to me. This won’t mean much to me unless it continues, I’ll keep updates coming,if things happen as they usually do I can expect a crash in a few days.

#12

Still brainstorming here… if our bodies saw more estrogen floating around than it should, then knowing it’s dangerous to have excess estrogen our body may down regulate the sensitivity of our androgen receptors because if it didn’t then we would feel like we do when we re sensitize our receptors manually by using progesterone… awful .

This would explain why we have so much difficulty responding to HRT, because our receptors have been down regulated and for good reason. if the above is true then we could reverse this by first detoxing all the estrogen, put in testosterone and then re sensitize our androgen receptors.

this is just another theory in the ocean of never-ending theories but I’m going to put it to the real world test and continue with the above original protocol but add in an AI.

I know better than to be optimistic about a protocol and am expecting nothing.

#13

Any updates BFB. Have you added in the AI yet? And what were your E2 levels before starting the AI?

#14

I’ll start this update by quoting an update I had made to a Nystatin protocol I tested some months ago in this thread:

This update I gave was the best I had ever felt from any protocol and the key phrase there is in bold italics, “I’ve also been doing the progesterone protocol so maybe it kicked in right at the same time”. At this point I’m starting to believe that it was not the enema’s that made me feel amazing but was the progesterone. I base this on two things:

  1. I have tried multiple times to duplicate the positive effects of the enemas by doing and have not been able to.

  2. I’m entering another one of these positive effect phases right now and have done no enema in well over a month but have continued high dose progesterone.

It’s also very important to note that on 12/15/2014 I completed an intense HCG + Nolvadex + Clomid HPTA restart protocol where I took HCG every third day for thirty days and then took 50 mg of clomid for two weeks and for the entire duration took nolvadex. At the start of this protocol I felt bad, had brain fog and just lethargic until I started taking high dose progesterone (15 - 20 mg a day) and I started feeling pretty good. After I got off of the HCG protocol I felt the same way as before I had started it, I noticed no improvement although possibly my chest was leaner, I don’t consider myself to have gyno but now that I have seen my chest slim down I’m open to the idea that maybe I do/did have a little bit but because the shape of my chest it looks more like muscle than tits.

Also, at the end of my HCG cycle I did high dose tribulus every day for 14 days. I felt absolutely no different while doing this.

Some might think that the cause of me having my current positive effects could be brought on by the HPTA restart protocol or the tribulus. I’m going to stay open minded but I doubt that’s what it is because I feel the same positive effects as I reported in the quote above and that was before the HTPA restart and before the tribulus.

Here are the positive effects that I am feeling:

Without my baking soda and zinc I typically have some cloudiness / brain fog, for the past few days I have had none whatsoever and haven’t had to take zinc or baking soda water.

I have more personality. I actually feel like joking around, cracking jokes and talking to people instead of feeling horribly annoyed when someone wants to have a mundane conversation.

I have felt the urge to have sex more often than I typically would. Typically I would want sex around every third day, I wanted it two days in a row and on one day I did it twice in the same day. I had sex last night and do not feel like having it again today, but it doesn’t sound off-putting where as before it would sound like a chore.

Testicals hang low instead of curling up next to my body (shrinkage)

Voice is deeper

So what does all this mean? To me this means I may be playing with the right things, it does not mean this is a cure. A cure is when I’ve been off of this for 6 months and feel completely normal and we’re not even close to that. Last time I went off of progesterone I felt amazing for about 2.5 weeks and then returned to baseline. I don’t want to sound negative but I also don’t want to create any hype for something that doesn’t yet deserve it. I need more time to really observe what’s going on and continue the treatment to see if it persists or not. I promise to everyone to do my best to not exaggerate, lie, or inflate anything that is happening with this, I’m just going to describe what’s happening good or bad.

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#15

Now that I’ve made an update I wanted to put out the question that has been on my mind. If the positive effects I’m having are from the progesterone, is it because I have been on it for seven months or because I have started taking higher doses (15-20mg as opposed to just 5).

I can’t answer this by testing myself because I can’t remove the 7 months I’ve been on the progesterone. If someone is interested in testing it would be nice to find out how others feel by taking 15-20 mg a day with nothing else, and another taking it with the Tongkat / b vitamins and AI.

In any case I’m currently in an off phase and not using progesterone and will keep updates on how I feel.

#16

You’re taking progesterone with the AI right now, correct?

I tried progesterone a few months ago and all my mental and physical symptoms improved, while my sexual symptoms worsened. If like to give it another shot with an AI to see if there’s any difference.

#17

I don’t think it was the 7 months.
Hcg shut people down and increase estrogen a lot.

When I had the up from prog it was huge. Like 70% better. As soon as I stopped the testo-booster and stayed with prog the effects never returned but I got a better baseline and I jusr fell from that base because I abused drugs and I crashed, just like Elb did.

I’m trying to find old posts from Cdnuts because I think his protocol and prog protocol is to eliminate estrogen, also the web site that he posted is saying to use testo-boosters and remove estrogen.

He said he would always take at least double of recommended and it would take some time to work. I will post one thing that I said to other guys that I think will be food for thought.

Why people don’t respond to TRT, why people don’t respond to androhard, why people don’t respond to ecstasy/mdma, why prog didn’t work for many?

The answer is we don’t have AR, that’s why we don’t feel different on TRT, that’s why we don’t feel higher libido from androhard or even muscle building, that’s why we don’t get libido increase from some drugs (check light he said before recovery he wouldn’t feel better libido on mdma, after recovery he felt), and the last question, people don’t feel the prog working because this is a step two a complement.

Cdnuts was the only who felt benefits from androhard, the only who felt from the other products from primordial performance and by reading his posts he said that he felt the benefits because his testosterone was boosted with herbs.

#18

Hi Entropy, what dose of progesterone were you taking daily and for how long?

#19

hi Brazilianguy, what are you getting at? Please state the main idea of what you’re saying in a sentence or two if possible. I want to clearly understand what your belief is

#20

To be completely honest, I took only one dose of 5mg rubbed on my arm. Literally changed me for 3 straight days. All my mental and physical symptoms improved substantially. Brain fog lifted, more social, speaking clearly, vision improvements, etc. Physically, my face looked “awake” and alert as it did before all this. Body numbness decreased. I mean every effing symptom I have improved, but I couldn’t handle the sexual sides. Libido completely disappeared. Orgasm went from feeling mildly pleasurable to being just an awkward spasm with no physical or mental pleasure. Genitals shrunk (and my baseline is no shrinkage) and became more numb. It was terrible. I never took another dose.

I had a half a mind to try it again with an AI, just to see if the sexual sides at least stay the same.