Dr.Lin's approach for treating finasteride permanent damage

hi guys, great to find this forum. i have been through Dr.Lin’s approach to treat finasteride persistent damage of the whole body systems; not just the sexual system.

here are Dr.Lin’s views
actionlove.com/cases/case11311.htm
actionlove.com/extra/hailoss.htm#f
actionlove.com/cases/case13173.htm

i’m going to try this! i took that fucking fina-fuckin’-steride for two months. i have been trying to recover for 8 months with no real improvement. i can’t believe that i have done this to myself. i have poisoned myself by my own money; my own choice and my own will. this crap has to be banned or they can instead label it correctly " a rat poison".
come back later, ce ya

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Dude, this guy is saying that masturbation and sex will destroy the remaining penile tissue and turn it into callogen? WTF?!?!?

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hi UGA. i know that guy doesn’t document what he says by reliable scientific data. but he rather said that it is finasteride which cause a damage to the penile tissue ; and this will be augmented by overmasturbation. that was documented by that study which shows that androgens are important for penile tissue repair.

i’m really helpless that is why i’ll take anything that MAY help. i dunno, it seems like a nightmare for me. i just hope there is no significant genetic alteration in the 5 alpha reductase gene; though i have been thru an article in pubmed which said that finasteride change the 5 alpha reductase gene expression.hell!

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Yeah, at this point, we don’t have much to lose…

Can you post that article here? I would greatly appreciate it? Maybe even just copy and paste it along with the relevant citation material?

Thanks

PT Barnum.

Hypo, what do you mean by that?

When you believe things unquestioningly, without asking for proof then you open yourself up to hocus pocus and snake oil.

Barnum said, there is a sucker born every minute.

Don’t be the sucker who gets fleeced!

hypo, here is the study. this is scary , i’m really really panic.

Differential effect of 5 alpha-reductase inhibition and castration on androgen-regulated gene expression in rat prostate.Rittmaster RS, Magor KE, Manning AP, Norman RW, Lazier CB.
Department of Medicine and Physiology, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Castration reduces prostate size and causes intraprostatic testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) to fall to very low levels. 5 alpha-Reductase inhibition also reduces prostate size, but results in a marked increase in intraprostatic T levels. To compare the effects of 5 alpha-reductase inhibition and castration on prostate physiology, male Sprague-Dawley rats were left intact, castrated, or given the selective 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor finasteride for up to 9 days. To be sure that finasteride itself did not directly affect gene expression, an additional group of rats was castrated and given finasteride for 4 days. The prostates were weighed, intraprostatic RNA, DNA, and androgen levels were measured, and mRNAs for two androgen-regulated genes, prostate steroid-binding protein (PSBP; an androgen-induced gene) and testosterone-repressed prostate message (TRPM-2), were quantitated by Northern and slot blot analyses. Finasteride caused a 95% reduction in intraprostatic DHT levels and a 10-fold increase in intraprostatic T levels. Finasteride, as expected, caused a pronounced decrease in prostate weight (45% on day 4). DNA content fell correspondingly (48% on day 4). Intraprostatic DNA (micrograms of DNA per gland) on day 4 was 328 +/- 53 in control rats, 171 +/- 10 in finasteride-treated rats (P less than 0.001 compared to controls), 115 +/- 2 in castrated rats (P less than 0.05 compared to finasteride), and 107 +/- 43 in finasteride-treated plus castrated rats (P = NS compared to castration alone). There were no significant differences in DNA levels among the groups when expressed per mg prostate tissue, indicating that mean prostate cell size was unchanged.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 1719382 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Hypo I’m not scientific as most of you here; but I can think of something:
I mean, lets track back the problem again. Finasteride’s supposed problem is inhibiting testosterone natural pathway thru conversion to DHT-which inturn keeps estradiol in check-thus the final result is a supraphysiological concentration of testosterone; which will be detoxified by the increased gene expression of liver aromatase to estradiol; which inturn- inhibit the HPTA via feed back mechanism.the results we have are:
1-increased activity of liver and my be testicular aromatase; hence increased estradiol conc.
2-decreased DHT levels
3-decreased testosterone levels”secondary hypogonadism”

And what happens when someone uses a testosterone ester injection for body building?
He will experience the same effects which are due to supraphysiological conc. Of T with the resultant conversion to estradiol via over-transcripted aromatase.

But why should steroid users recover easily by correcting the HPTA while can’t we?
The answer is that only difference between our secondary hypogonadism and post-steroid secondary hypogonadism is that we have inactive 5 alpha reductase. That is why steroid users will recover by just correcting their T levels, which can then be corrected to the more powerful DHT easily. I think DHT is responsible for full recovery since it is the most powerful androgen in the body.

Now, again, why can’t we recover by correcting T even months after stopping fin? Because even correcting the T can’t restore the DHT to pre-fin values. Why? Because 5 alpha reductase is still inactive even after stopping fin.why? I believe this is because of a powerful deactivation of 5 alpha reductase gene transcription. Only impaired gene transcription will persist even after even stopping fin. You know what? This is hellish.
I believe the FDA must force Merck to do a research to outline this; otherwise we will second guess the reason for the rest of our lives hopelessly.
p.s“sorry for my bad English, I’m not a native English speaker”
btw hypo, we have already ingested what is worse than snake oil, at least there is an antidote for snake oil!

First fo all the study was of rats not humans and not appropriate to use in this context.

Secondly DHT levels are only one part of the problem caused by finasteride based products.

Thirdly DHT levels are often restored very well in men post finasteride use, but symptoms often still pervade.

Finasteride causes a range of differing problems to the sex steroids and only by correcting the relevant problem in each situation can you have any hope of putting health back on track.

None of this alters the fact that this Dr.Lin’s is talking out of his backside and is a natural hocus pocus seller of snake oil.

If you want to buy his wares then go ahead, he will be laughing and have your money and you will not get any better.

hypo, thanx for your reply.

i understand your view. but… if you were true why there are people who still have the problem though they have corrected the hormonal imbalance? :frowning:

hypo, thanx for your reply.

i understand your view. but… if you were true why there are people who still have the problem though they have corrected the hormonal imbalance? :frowning:

Egy, is there some reason you post the same thing more than once?

Can you please not do this in the future, it just means i have to go and clean up after you and delete the duplicate posts… thanks :slight_smile:

mew,i’m really sorry, i swear i click on the “submit” button only once but dunno why is this happening to me ! i know you got sick of this “mine sweeper” job :slight_smile:
“i’ll pray this will be posted only once”

I guess my question would be…has Dr. Lin’s approach been successful for anyone in these forums?

.

Actually you are 100% right.

Especialy concerning the latest findings and Dr.Shippen book summary presented in the other subject.

I stopped Propecia years ago. I also had 4 months experience with Dutasteride. Now It’s been 3 years since I do not take any medication for hairloss.
I suffer all the symptoms that you mention here and even something extra, like face redness (maybe somebody mentioned that but did not notice). Plus I do not loose hair any more!!! Can you imagine without any drug, medication… anything, hair stopped falling so as my sex life went away.

I spent 1000 of hours trying to find out what is going on with me and I do finally know the horrible truth. Our problem in most cases is the: DEFFICIENCY OF 5AR/DHT IN THE BRAIN. 5AR gene is distroyed and it is irreversible.

How I got to this knowledge.

When my condition got horrible I did complexed tests. All of them were correct (even Testosteron was high), despite PROGESTERON. Tests were done 3 years from stopping drug rgimen

Now look at Dr.Shippen text summary for the moment:


We can see that while on propecia and when stopping propecia, our brains have a deficiency of DHT in them, which is what propecia does in order to stop hair loss. The deficiency in DHT causes the hormone progesterone not to be converted to allopregnenolone, so brain repair does not take place as it should and there is a deficiency of GABA that can lead to high levels of anxiety. The body then tries to correct this problem of a lack of brain repair. This attempt logically does one of two things to the adrenal glands. Firstly, this attempt could possibly create such stress on the adrenals that they wear out and get fatigued, or else, secondly, the adrenals might know the body needs allopregnenolone and so tries to make the needed allopregnenolone by producing more and more progesterone. This progesterone never gets converted into allopregnenolone, though, because the DHT is blocked. The adrenals may eventually get worn out by contiuing to produce more and more progesterone that never does anything because there is no DHT. The progesterone may even not be converted as it should into testosterone, cortisol, DHEA, etc., in the adrenal cascade, because it is being saved in the attempt to make the crucial allopregnenolone, thereby resulting in deficiencies in other hormones that are normally made from progesterone.


This is exactly what happens in my body. Progesteron is permanently upregulated due to the defficiency in the 5AR/DHT. It cannot convert to 5alfaprogesteron —>Allopregnolon via 5AR!!

This Mental Fog/Brain Fog is directly associated with this phenomenom, because our brains does not support enough Allopregnolon and Gaba. Defficiency of these neurosteroids causes neurological problems that you discuss. There is no doubt it is permanent and associated with a demage of 5AR, because it is 3 years since I finished my hairloss regimen.

I wonder why don’t you discuss your progesteron levels, and I strongly suggest you better start to do so…

Cheers. We are f***ed but should not loose faith at least…


very interesting information, i would like to know where you got the text from

Here you’ve got the whole text:

DISCLAIMER: Please take these two stories with a grain as they say. The best advice that I think has been given on this site is to not jump on bandwagons. However, with that said, I have seen a lot of new evidence that we should be working on our brains. I am currently reading the books suggested in these stories, and have noticed that I fit the bill. Maybe some of you do too.

Also, If I could make one request. Please no negativity here. It’s very important that we don’t just shoot down every possible solution because the truth is none of know what will work.

Story 1: (patient suffered severe anxiety, low libido, ED)
I have always said that the problem is a brain neurotransmitter and adrenal exhaustion issue, and I think that this article you found is the medical evidence that fills in the missing part of the puzzle, and finally adds proof to what all of us have been telling our doctors all along.

I think that all of us should make copies of this article and fax it or give it to as many doctors as possible, because then maybe there will be medical things that begin to happen that gets the medical community working with us and showing propecia for what it is instead of them just ignoring us.
As you have known, I have always recommended The Edge Effect book for the brain neurotransmitter information and remedies, and the Dr. Wilson book for adrenal exhaustion. I have always known that these were what needed to be corrected, but now your article explains in a medical way why.

I wrote about Dr. Shippen in tzanne Somers book saying that finasteride shrinks the brain by not allowing DHT in the brain to convert progesterone into the brain-repairing neurosteroid allopregnenolone. THerefore, without the DHT, the brain cannot repair itself, and neurtransmitter problems, hormonal-manufacturing problems in the brain, etc., cannot take place.
Your medical research article adds complete power to Dr. Shippen’s comments, and it also explains the brain neurotransmitter/adrenal fatigue connection that I have written about on here.

Your article completely shows everything and I thank you for it.
Looking at the article, it shows how important allopregnenolone is, and how propecia causes a deficiency in allopregnenolone by the reason that Dr. Shippen gave, with DHT not being able available in the brain to convert progesterone into allopregnenolone.

The article also explains medically how the brain neurotransmitter GABA becomes deficient as a result of all of this. From reading The Edge Effect, you know that GABA is the neurotransmitter that brings about calmness and no anxiety. Many people on here have spoken about very high levels of anxiety when taking propecia or after taking it, especially if coming off of it cold-turkey. This high anxiety is now explained medically in your article.

I know people who I have helped to recover from propecia, and one of the main things that brought about their recovery was the natural progesterone cream treatment that I recommended to everyone a few weeks ago. This cannot be synthetic progesterone and must be natural progesterone cream from a compounding pharmacy like I spoke about before.

In looking at your article, this progesterone therapy makes total sense now, and also it shows logically how adrenal fatigue can be caused by propecia.

We now know medically that propecia causes a deficiency of allopregnenolone and GABA. This is caused by blocking DHT, which stops hair loss but damages the brain where DHT is needed.
Looking at this logically, we can see that while on propecia and when stopping propecia, our brains have a deficiency of DHT in them, which is what propecia does in order to stop hair loss.

The deficiency in DHT causes the hormone progesterone not to be converted to allopregnenolone, so brain repair does not take place as it should and there is a deficiency of GABA that can lead to high levels of anxiety. The body then tries to correct this problem of a lack of brain repair.

This attempt logically does one of two things to the adrenal glands. Firstly, this attempt could possibly create such stress on the adrenals that they wear out and get fatigued, or else, secondly, the adrenals might know the body needs allopregnenolone and so tries to make the needed allopregnenolone by producing more and more progesterone.

This progesterone never gets converted into allopregnenolone, though, because the DHT is blocked. The adrenals may eventually get worn out by contiuing to produce more and more progesterone that never does anything because there is no DHT. The progesterone may even not be converted as it should into testosterone, cortisol, DHEA, etc., in the adrenal cascade, because it is being saved in the attempt to make the crucial allopregnenolone, thereby resulting in deficiencies in other hormones that are normally made from progesterone.

If the adrenal glands get burned-out, as medical evidence shows that they do in at least some cases of propecia users, then the adrenals stop being able to produce anywhere near enough progesterone. After propecia is stopped and DHT begins to return to the brain, then the brain now has the DHT it has needed, but it no longer has the progesterone that DHT converts into allopregnenolone, and so allopregnenolone still cannot be produced and the brain still cannot be repaired without allopregnenolone. GABA levels still cannot be raised back to normal without brain repair, and so people remain very anxious. Other hormones like testosterone, etc, remain low because there is not enough progesterone to be converted into them.

The solution to all of this is to provide the brain and adrenal glands with what they need. Without propecia they now have DHT, but they now need natural progesterone cream. With progesterone, the brain can now be repaired as the DHT can convert progesterone to the needed allopregnenolone, and the high levels of anxiety because of the GABA deficiency can be corrected, and as the recovery continues then after a period of time of a month or two of using the progesterone cream and when the brain does not need as much of it, then some of the progesterone can be used to convert into testosterone, DHEA, etc.

Following the GABA plan in The Edge Effect will build up your GABA levels to help to stop anxiety, and building up dopamine neurotransmitter levels will also help people like yourself who want to. Following the Dr. Wilson book for adrenal fatigue will build back up the adrenal glands so that they can produce progesterone again and help recovery.

However, for extreme cases like many men have on here, then progesterone cream also needs to be added because it is needed so much that waiting for the adrenals to recover is too long a wait. Using progesterone cream also helps the adrenal glands to recover quicker because it keeps the adrenal glands from having to make the progesterone to begin with, which uses a lot more adrenal energy than just converting progesterone into other hormones like testosterone does. So the progesterone cream helps in many ways.

I know of people who were struggling to recover from propecia with just The Edge Effect and with taking care of the adrenals, but that when natural progesterone cream was added to the two therapies, then full recovery from propecia took place within 3-4 months of being on the progesterone cream. It only takes about 3 days for the progesterone cream to start to create a benefit in how youy feel, and this improvement will continue to improve each week until full recovery.

When the adrenal glands fully recover, then the progesterone cream can be reduced and removed. It also costs about $16 per month for a 5 mg per day amount of cream, which is the amount for a man, so it is not expensive.

Your article was also interesting because it gave several supplements that someone could take to lessen the bad effects of propecia. Many of these, like L-Theanine, I have been recommending on here for a year, and so there must be a benefit from such supplements.

It was also interesting in the article to see how people with certain conditions should not use propecia because propecia impacts the same areas of the brain as these conditions do. One of these mentioned was heavy metal poisoning, which is very easy to get in the current environment, and so everyone on here should look into getting a hair analysis to see if they have high levels of any toxic metals because removing such metals will help recovery from propecia.

I would also like to add that many men on here may have some candida/digestive bacteria issues, because they can be caused by propecia and by adrenal fatigue. When someone has these problems in their digestive system, then the adrenal glands cannot recover until the problem is removed. If you think that you might have such a problem, then the very best product is Tanalbit, which is made by Intensive Nutrition and can be purchased on their website. It is an all-natural plant tannin product that can be used by anyone because it has no side effects, but it is amazing how it works. Adrenal glands can recover within a short time of using it if a digestive system. Even if you are not sure if you have a problem, then using it can do no harm because some people use it all the time as maintenance.

Also, you asked me about raising dopamine levels, and said that you had trouble with tyrosine. I had the same problem with the amino acid L-Phenalalanine, and found that L-Methionine was easy to take for dopamine and that it was good in other ways also.

However, my feeling is that dopamine levels will come up on their own after the recovery takes place, and so I think that the GABA levels are more important to try to raise, as per your article, while you are taking care of the adrenals and using progesterone cream. Eventually, your GABA levels will get to normal and you can stop using the GABA plan supplements.

I wish I had a low progesteron… but as a matter of fact it is not.

I see only one story… can you please identify clearly who wrote what, and provide links to the original source of these materials?

Thanks.

EDIT:

The above story is from SMITHPULITZER on the old Yahoo forum, posted Nov 14, 2006, in reply to another user:

health.groups.yahoo.com/group/fi … sage/11753

Majkellos, it is important you identify the source of your materials so that people are aware of who wrote them (ie, medical professional, forum member, etc) so that nobody is mislead.

For example: Your post 2 above quoting a certain passage as Dr Shippen’s own words directly, is not correct. It was written by Smithpulitzer. Please do not misquote.

Also, no need to post the same thing in multiple areas of the forum (ie, propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1079 ) , one post in one thread will suffice.

Thanks.