Dr. Crisler talking about Post-Fin treatments, recoveries

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#21

Not to dilute the thread but…

Since we also have ADHD/“brain fog” issues, IM(undoctorated)O neurochemical sources are on the table too. Can’t inadequate dopamine function also crash the endocrine system? It all interrelates, but maybe there’s an issue of dopamine depletion or tolerance - like AR downregulation - from fin’s initial T/DA rush, too. I don’t mean to be an armchair doctor but I am not sure that is certain, and if it is, I want proof of our damage. Also we’ve seen guys here use TRT with minimal success if any.

I would personally need to test adrenals and all endocrine components before looking at TRT. It’s a lifetime and unsure crutch - as poorly as I feel its the “when all else fails” answer for me.

Very grateful for his insights though. He is really helping, so anyone who can needs to see him so he can have a wider spectrum of profiles.

#22

I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble. I know Dr Crisler has recognised that there is a problem and I appreciate that. But I have my concerns about his credentials. He is a D.O. not an M.D. and a part of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine. This Academy is not respected by the medical field.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_A … g_Medicine

I have my concerns about him. And I just wanted to share them.

I would be glad to hear any comments especially by those treated by him as I do realise some people have improved with his help.

#23

I acknowledge your concern and think it valid, but I see a DO now and they are involved in a greater scope of healing known as osteopathy. The perception that a DO is less qualified than an MD is invalid because DO’s actually do as much if not more training. Ultimately the truth is that I have found DOs to be completely understanding of this situation, and MDs to be universally more interested in sticking to what they know and culling their own business. IMO any outspoken disrespect to a DO is nonsense.

As far as “anti-aging” not being recognized by that authority, we’re not seeing him for anti-aging purposes so there is no need for a real worry.

#24

I see what you’re saying and I agree with your D.O. point. My point about the anti-aging thing is that he is part of a medically unproven field. If he prescribes on that account then his science may not be sound. Also his website allthingsmale.com i find somewhat dubious. It does not seem to be about helping people. He has an online store, uses words like man law and what not. M.D.s - you are right on the whole stick to what they know - but only because they don’t know what is wrong with us. They are at a loss and don’t feel qualified to treat us. It doesn’t help us but you can see their case.

I am still thinking about contacting him to see what he says but as i said i do have my reservations about him and the androgen receptor theory (for me anyway). If it was downregulated or not working why would I still loose my hair, why would antibiotics improve my erections more than boosting testosterone, how does vision relate to testosterone etc…The last thing i want is to be put on TRT without needing it.

I guess what I’m saying is: take care.

#25

Because he is a doctor for a living; you want help, you get an appointment. Besides he has plenty of assistances he offers via that site, so I just don’t see that to be true at all.

#26

Could any of you please refer me to information or posts which discuss why lowering estrogen levels is not a solution for us, please?

Is it true that many of you have appetites that vary in an unusual way (different to before your finasteride experience)? I’ve found that my interest in food has dwindled faster in the past 10 months than ever before in my life (this was already an issue for me before finasteride). some of this is related to depression, neurotransmitters, etc. Well… alright I’ll say most of it is related to neurotransmitters and what I would assume is their relationship with enzymes.

#27

I 'd like to confirm that another one forum’s user named 40 (he’s from italy too,i speak by phone with him everyday and told me to post this) has just tested the Adiol-G (3a-diol-G) with ranges from 3.00-22.00 and his result is 2.00

so this could really be the reason we’ re still suffering the sides .

#28

Interestingly enough, Mew makes a very good point

MEW Writes:

Is there anyway Dr. Crisler can tests for 5AR2, 3a-HSD and Adiol-G to us…If we can isolate the problem down and find the proper treatment, our lives will be back on track…and hopefully merck will say “uncle”.

#29

Is Adiol-G a common test? Does Quest do it in the U.S. ?

As long as we make some DHT, does it matter whether its through 5AR1 or 5AR2?

I have had two DHT readings, one before starting topcial TRT, and the other before starting cliomiphene (see the Clomid recovery thread) and both were arounf 50 (scale 25-75 IIRC)

Interesting . . . kazman

#30

Mew, another question - does 5AR2 have anything to do with transforming Androstenedione down the pathway to T, E, or any other direction? I thought only 17-beta soething or toher was needed

Even after three months clomiphene treatment (or maybe becuase of it but it does not make sense), my Androstenedione levels (both urine and serum) are both above the normal range. Maybe this is just me . . .

kazman

#31

Quest Diagnostics Adiol-G test: questdiagnostics.com/hcp/tes … abCode=SJC

Yes it matters if its 5AR1 or 5AR2 making the DHT, because DHT metabolism occurs LOCALLY in 5AR specific tissues, which are specific to certain areas of the body (ie, 5AR2 is in prostate, genital skin etc vs 5AR1, which is not).

More info: propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=761
(screenshots)

#32

5AR does appear to be involved in metabolism of Androstenedione, based on the following steroidogenesis diagrams:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=518

Have a read through this, others have reported similar:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1400

#33

Perhaps someone should mention Jn’s case to Dr Crisler and se if he can incorporate HGH it into his treatments, after all did he not discover the adrenal fatigue link thru the old board?

Where are all the Crisler TRT guys anyway? If h’e seen a ‘couple hundred’ guys I’m guessing anything from 50-100 of them are on TRT. Their experiences are needed.

#34

Mew,

You had posted this quote from Dr Chrisler:

At the end of this statement, He is basically saying estrogen decreasing drugs are a mistake. But, this conflicts with what you said earlier in this thread. You had mentioned that Dr. Chrisler prefers to use clomid; which is an anti-estrogen drug.

I will be seeing an endo dr on the 29th and thought clomid might be my best option, but now seeing the Chrisler doesn’t like these meds I don’t know what to think.

thanks

#35

Crisler is saying that using drugs that stop the formation of estrogen altogether - such as Arimidex - to boost testosterone is a bad idea. Some people use Arimidex as a kind of TRT, lowering their E and raising T.

Crisler doesn’t agree with that use of Arimidex, because you end up with E that is too low. He thinks people should stick to using Arimidex for what it was intended to do, which bring elevated estrogen under control.

You’re right that Clomid and Tamoxifen can also be thought of as anti-estrogens. But they work differently to Arimidex: they don’t stop the formation of estrogen, they block the action of estrogen at the receptor. Crisler himself uses courses of Tamoxifen lasting several weeks to try to boost natural T production and re-start the HPTA.

So you’re fine using Clomid or Tamoxifen. Given what we’ve seen around here recently, I’d say you should test Adiol-G first, try a course of Tamox, and see if it raises T and manages to shift Adiol-G upwards. You might need to stay on low dose Tamox for a long time to achieve that, and aim for a serum T level that is above the normal range.

I used Tamox to boost my serum T from around 12nmol to 28nmol, and it made no difference. Maybe if you aim for 40nmol, and keep it there for months, it might work. Other option is to try straightforward TRT.

#36

ScaredMale provided the correct info.

As for “You had mentioned that Dr. Chrisler prefers to use clomid; which is an anti-estrogen drug.” – from my understandings Crisler prefers Tamoxifen over Clomid. Dr. Shippen prefers Clomid over Tamoxifen.

#37

Like I said, more fucking guys just need to go to this guy. As you can see, he is gaining patients to work with…and trying different things now.
But there are so many f-in stubborn ass dudes on this website that just refuse to cooperate.
ALL FINASTERIDE SUFFERERS SHOULD GO TO SEE DR CRISLER NOW!! PERIOD.
Its as simple as fucking that! So that he has people to fucking work with, so that he can make something happen.
Fucking people are stupid!

#38

A resolution is near.

Boston, I’m going to see him, but first I need to detox myself, get off any herbal supplements, and amino acids.

My body needs to develop a base without taking anything so the blood tests are accurate.

I’m going to try to see him in a few months.

We will get better…it’s in the cards.

God Bless

#39

Boston, did you ever get the blood tests done that Crisler ordered?

Did he order an Adiol-G test on you? This test costs 40 to 85 dollars so not a huge expense.

kazman

#40

How should I properly clean the urine collection bottles?? anyone?
I do not want to have skewed results for my hormone profile.

I messed up during the collection period. The bottles were soiled. I haven’t had the time to stay home for a 24hr period and collect again, but I tried again two days ago. Thing is… the bottles wreaked really bad eventhough I had tried to clean them since the last attempt.

(??Should I just clean it with warm soapy water and then rinse it well with DISTILLED water and let it dry well? Do you think results will then be accurate?)

Because again… the bottle wreaked really bad of old urine… and dont want to pay 225 for an inaccurrate test.