Does Buproprion help with the anhedonia and ED associated with PFS?

#1

I’m 4 months post finasteride now and am fortunate enough to have experienced >50% improvement in symptoms since ceasing (was on it 22 years) - Ive been my own lab rat for a variety self imposed treatment regimes.
However, my greatest residual problem is ED (all the classic PFS ones!). I note there is a lot of conjecture about dopamine being affected in PFS. I think in my case there is possibly some credence to it, as in my first crash i suffered a lot of EPSE, mostly in the form of akathisia. I also have extended periods of anhedonia usually with a good dose of brain fog.
I note Buproprion is an indirect dopamine agonist and wonder if others have had any experience with it? A confounding factor of course is Buproprion is contra indicated in patients suffering anxiety (may makes it worse); this is something i get quite a bit of at certain stages of my crash cycles.

I guess an alternative in the great dopamine experiment would be things like Mucuna Pruriens on a 4 on 3 off regimen??

…very grateful for any advice or experience people are willing to share.

One last thing i thought worth sharing on the topic of ED. I found the use of L-Citrulline or L-Arginine combined with French Maritime Bark Extract to be quite helpful. It sits in line with the concept behind phosphodiesterase inhibitors - that being to increase the amount of NO in the pecker.

#2

Check out my post about Wellbutrin below. I shiver when I remember the things I did and said when I was on WB (together with paxil)…

Have you tried a high dose of Tribulus? It works somewhat for me, although I am sure my hair will fall out and I’ll get prostate cancer.

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#3

Wellbutrin is not contraindicated for anxiety, or rather it is but only when you have no idea what anxiety is, which psychiatry doesn’t indeed. Wellbutrin will give you the jitters early on (which is not the same as anxiety!) while you are getting used to it, especially on the ridiculously high standard dose of 300mg, which you should never be on. In addition, it will activate you behaviorally (which is what you want but may end up being a terrible thing because you will start doing stupid things). I can write a book about this but I don’t have time now…

#4

I just tapered off of Wellbutrin. It was definitely improving my mood and outlook on life but I feel it worsened anxiety for me and also started to feel like it made some of my sexual symptoms worse (less libido and longer time it took to ejaculate). I’ve also read conflicting information on its effects regarding adrenal fatigue which I believe I have.

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#5

It does improve mood and outlook on life, that’s for sure…

#6

Have you information on treating AF? I have some understanding about that and CF as I thought they were the cause of my energy problems when i was on finasteride. A (Doctor) friend of mine has written a book which includes a chapter on treating AF - I can share some info if you like?

#7

[quote=“Sibelio, post:3, topic:36004”]
Wellbutrin is not contraindicated for anxiety, or rather it is but only when you have no idea what anxiety is, which psychiatry doesn’t indeed.
I generally agree with you. I think they understand psychogenic anxiety very well, but haven’t a clue about the fight flight (anxiety) symptoms associated with PFS. This is evidenced by their bloody insistence on using SSRIs with PFS. When the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

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#8

Ive not tried Tribulus but will look into it - what do you consider a high dose?

Did you find your sexual function improved on Buproprion?

#9

Why do you think it cause those problems?

There seems to be a reasonable amount of evidence that is increases libido which is great! There is also no support of the claim it increases testosterone which is also good for me as i generally sit at 28 - so i don’t want anymore. As far as i can determine the libido increase is through another mode yet to be fully understood.

From your experience, would you say you’ve had greater benefit from Tribulus over Buproprion?

#10

I took Wellbutrin before I had PFS so I can’t judge its effect on FPS-related sexual side effects. One thing it does for sure - it disinhibits you psychologically and activates you behaviorally so you are less likely to hold yourself back should you have any sexual urges whatsoever. This can be a problem - make no mistake about it.

As far as I know there is solid evidence that Tribulus raises Testosterone. I read a number of studies about that on Pubmed.

A normal dose of Tribulus is 10mg/kg and that’s the maximum dose that’s tested in the studies I have read. That’s equivalent to one 750mg pill a day, which is the manufacturer’s recommended dose as well. I need to take at least 3 preferably 4 pills a day to notice a tangible effect. After 4 pills I start getting side effects such as palpitations, dizziness, and shortness of breath and I seem to get blood thinning at any dose.

#11

Again thank you so much for sharing you experience Sibelio. From what people have said I think I’ll try Mucuna first and evaluate its effects (fingers crossed). Once that’s complete i will try the Tribulus as you suggested - so thank you for making me aware of it.
As long as it improves my ED I’m not concerned too much about how it does it - unless i can address it I’m at risk of being single.

Just FYI is the following:

#12

Ok, thanks. I’ll check it out. I generally don’t trust any papers though (anymore!). Also, whenever I hear “reliable scientific evidence is scant” I cringe and shake my head.

I know for myself that it works as an aphrodisiac with 100% certainty, even if I don’t know how it works. It does seem to increase my semen volume, if that’s any indication about possible T-boosting effects.

#13

I agree…great to know thanks!
I think as our improved DHT levels effect our urinary tract and prostate the semen production will increase - I’ve found I’m producing more since stopping though getting it out is difficult lol.

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#14

I would very much like any advice on treating AF. I’ve been trying my own things for quite a while and nothing seems to stick. And I don’t have the money to see a naturopath or other doctor like that

#15

OK happy to send through some information - i will get onto it this evening and post a summary here.

Do you know your cortisol levels?

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#16

#17

Please forgive me if i’m a little hard to follow, my head is a bit foggy at the moment.

OK so I guess to start i need to mention there are essentially three stages involved:

  1.       EARLY HIGH CORTISOL STAGE
    
  2.        WANING MID STAGE
    
  3.        ADRENAL EXHAUSTION
    

List item

  1. So a normal person produces about 20 mg of cortisol a day, those with unbalanced lifestyle – (stress +++ and sleep deprivation) have their cortisol production rise ten-fold to 200 mg each day. Helps you maintain normal blood sugar levels, creates energy, is anti-inflammatory, modulates immunity, stabilises BP and controls mood.

  2. In this mid-stage, cortisol is still high but starting to fall, and three other hormones decline:
    SEROTONIN - problems with depressed mood, DHEA - associated with decline in immune function, decreasing sex drive and malaise and fatigue, MELATONIN - poor sleep.

  3. chronic overstimulation of the adrenal glands finally leaves the adrenals depleted, and unable to perform their protective role.

Issues include:

  • List item

Aberrant CNS function - anxiety and nervousness, and an inability to relax.
Gut problems - surging adrenaline disturbs the gut’s ability to produce various important digestive enzymes and decreases gut motility (often diagnosed as IBS)
Thyroid problems - precipitates thyroid imbalance as they work together
Hypoglycaemia - aberrant insulin levels

Sorry if im going on too long, but i think it important to know the regular course of events - it goes without saying that PFS confounds mainstream approaches as you know.

So, preferred treatment and testing as i understand it consists of the following:
A balanced diet, reduced caffeine, nicotine, sugar and alcohol intake. Getting plenty of sleep, exercise and relaxation.
DHEA and Cortisol are the two main hormones of interest as these two hormones are continuously secreted in response to long term stress, and they regulate metabolism and thus energy production. Aldosterone is another adrenal hormone which is easily tested and worth considering. It regulates sodium and potassium levels so contributes towards regulating blood pressure.

Anyway in terms of levels - Cortisol (blood test) an ideal range is 300 -500 nmol/ L (NB:“ ideal” is higher than “average”) DHEA ideal range 4-12 µmol/L.

Treatment - nutritional supplementation:

Please be careful taking any of these - if your levels are normal it is not advised.

Adrenal Corticol Extracts - These are also called adrenal cell extracts. They are liquid or powder extracts of the adrenal cortex. It is important to understand that they are not replacement hormones, rather that provide the essential and natural constituents for adrenal repair – this includes nucleic acids (adrenal cell RNA and DNA) and concentrated nutrients in the form and proportion used by the adrenals to properly function and recover. Actual adrenal hormones as such are present but only tiny amounts.

There’s a product available in Australia from Thorne Research - www.thorn.com

Adrenal Cortex (Bovine) 50 mg one capsule, one tab three times a day - this dose can be increased (under medical supervision).

Several other complexes are available with supplements that support the adrenal gland, and often the thyroid as well. eg adrenoplex, adrenotone, S.F.M. XCel, adrenergy forte, adreno enhance. Their ingredients are variable and may contain the following nutrients, and adaptogen herbs withania and rhodiola as well as other herbs.

NUTRIENTS - examples in adrenal complexes

Tyrosine 300 mg

Iodine (as potassium iodide) 100 mcg

Selenium (as selenomethionine) 75 mcg

Vitamin E 50 IU 42 mg

Zinc (as amino chelate) 5 mg

Inositol 200 mg

Biotin 39 mcg

Pantothenic acid 1.5 mg

HERBAL SUPPLEMENTS – examples in adrenal complexes

Withania somnifera root 1.5g 1500 mg

Rhodiola rosea root 200 mg

Panax quinquefolius root 1.0 g

Stimulating herbs such as Gingko Biloba should be avoided, as the adrenal in particular need softer, supportive care particularly in the early stages of recovery.

That’s probably all i can say on the topic - It may not be of help, but i sincerely hope you can at least take something away from my ramblings.

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