Cured after 11 years

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#172

I’m not sure exactly how much it matters, but I think the objective here is to achieve a high amount of DHT (albeit synthetic) only for a period, and then withdraw it so that ALL androgens are suddenly depleted to the extent possible…thereby forcing that AR signaling correction, fix methylation, reverse the harmful epigenetic change, or whatever the hell the latest scientific journal says is wrong with us!

We know from experience here that the ups and downs of testosterone levels via TRT don’t result in any long term improvement, so we theorize that by leaving out any exogenous T, we stand a better chance of this working.

FWIW, I did a 6-week stint of 25mg Proviron while I was on TRT, and I felt no real benefits at all. That’s a tiny dose compared to this protocol though. Personally, I’d leave it out…maybe stop it right before starting something like this, as if the Proviron was your ”PCT” (even though it’s far from it).

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#173

Would also be interesting to see how cycles of 1 week on (200mg) / off would compare to 7 weeks on.

If a few guys do 6-7 weeks, I would potentially do on/off cycles.

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#174

Isn’t the goal to get DHT as low as possible, basically? I think it takes at least a month to fully suppress endogenous production. In fact, I think bodybuilders sometimes do “micro-cycles” of a couple weeks as a strategy of minimizing suppression.

#175

I agree that if Baylor might come out soon then it’s a wise move to wait a bit longer, I think I’m personally going to wait until corona is over. That’s about the time frame I’m giving it. I also agree on the part that this is dangerous, but so was taking finasteride… messing with hormones is always dangerous but we gotta try something to get out of this mess.

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#176

Im looking forward to your protocol, hope it goes well for you too! Blessings.

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#177

Very interesting story.

It’s impressive that @pal stuck to his protocol despite the side being that strong, you have showed a lot of trust in the post you mentioned especially considering it is not about finasteride.

Since you just stopped once you ran out of proviron, we could argue that, the same could have been achieved in less than 7 weeks of treatment right? Maybe then the side would have subsided quicker and you’d have been back to full recovery earlier? Just trying to see a way this protocol could be perfected. Anyhow, I hope you are cured for good @pal.
My own DHT levels are rather on the low range still 4 years after quitting, but never had the guts to mess with DHT again one way or an other.

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#178

@anjikyuzan @Renegade @EndlessLight

Hey guys could you please take the survey? It’s important for our progress if we want to get out of this mess. Thanks!

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#179

Just letting everyone know that I will very likely be trying this out too. 200mg/day of proviron. The question is do I do mono proviron, or do I also do it along side clomid and an AI to really push steroid production up and into DHT.

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#180

I would strongly advise you not to use an AI since proviron already inhibits estrogen

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#181

Yes I considered that, but considering that I will be pushing testosterone up with Clomid, I will consider it. I have access to bloods regularly and will be testing.

I am a low dht case after finasteride.

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#182

Hey @MCurtone could you please take the survey too? It’s important for all of us. Thank you and take care

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#183

I would personally hold off on any testosterone or clomid during/after the course. Notwithstanding the possible AR problem, the two (at that dose) would be working against each other at the HPTA level.

When I did 25mg while on an appropriate amount of TRT, it seemed to make me feel a little worse about 10 days in and until the end of the 6 weeks I was on it. It basically had the same effect as a higher TRT dose does - free T getting too high and actually making me feel worse like so many others here experience. So you risk that same problem if clomid did actually work while on that high of a Proviron dose.

This is coming from someone who aromatizes appropriately (natty and appropriate TRT E2 levels stay in mid-20s). My natty DHT levels are mid-range, and go up to high end on TRT.

This protocol is probably going to be really hard to endure, but we don’t want to fuck it up by throwing in others things (which we KNOW don’t end up helping us). So no TRT, no clomid, and definitely no AI. This is really a DHT-only cycle…with a healthy diet and maybe your morning multi.

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#184

Something just occurred to me: Perhaps a small dose of TRT could be used for the few who are naturally low on E2. But you would need to drop it well before the end of the end of the Proviron cycle, so that all your androgens can crash beautifully at once. If you had access to T-propionate, that might be better since you could probably use it until closer to the end (it metabolizes much faster).

For the vast majority of us, it would probably still be better to not go down that road, despite our curiosity or desire to build some muscle in the process.

#185

My suggestion is not to MIX anything with this protocol. Anything you add into the protocol will bring its own risks, implications. I think you can use the others later, on its own. You are doing a courageous job with trying this. I hope you can recover soon! Keep us updated man. Hopes up, fingers crossed.:muscle::crossed_fingers:

Btw, have you tried androgenic supplements? That way you can understand if you have AR issues or low hormone issues. If androgenic supplements make you worse you probably have AR issue in “theory”.

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#186

Well I am currently taking HCG 1500iu per week. 500 on Monday/Wednesday and Friday.

HCG is suppressive as it mimcs LH. My FSH and LH are basically zero. Would it make sense to take Proviron along side HCG and do only these? Then I can stop both at the same time.

#187

Btw, how is this protocol any different from a steroid cycle? I’m sure plenty of pfsers have done cycles at such suppressive doses (f.e. Test + masteron) in the past. What makes this different?

#188

Come off of the HCG before starting Proviron. And especially do not take Clomid while taking Proviron.

If the Proviron experiment works as it should, then you could do a Clomid + HCG restart a month or so after the Proviron experiment and they will actually give you a solid boost.

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#189

Well, if I come off the HCG, I will have to wait for my LH and FSH to come back up before starting proviron right? Or do I go right into proviron?

The way I see it, my 1500iu weekly of HCG is just keeping my testosterone in normal levels.

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#190

I’m inclined to agree with Moonman, but if you’re really bent on the HCG, you might be able to get away with taking it while on Proviron, at the same dose or more frequently (like 350iu every morning). I’m also considering this.

However, you would definitely need to stop them together at the end (maybe the hcg a little sooner), and personally I’d hold off on any SERMs until I was certain that the coveted “reversal” had occurred. This might involve going through a period of hell like the OP said.

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#191

I’m still in the planning stage of this “project.” I need to be really careful not to jeopardize my already stressful and demanding job should I start feeling like shit.

Also, so that I practice what I preach, I’m thinking I might need to stop taking Wellbutrin XL before starting this protocol…to remove any possible interactions/impediments. I’m on a small-ish dose of 150mg. It doesn’t do a lot for the anhedonic-type depression but has been very helpful in terms of improving the chronic, debilitating fatigue and digestive issues that PFS caused. This won’t be an easy endeavor to say the least.

What do you guys think?

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