Cured after 11 years

Member Stories
#192

Well I think I will do this with HCG. HCG will keep normal testosterone levels at 250-500 iu 3x per week.

There are also studies showing that HCG increases 5ar activity in the testies, which is what we want here. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8142315

In addition, proviron is going to bind to aromatase and shbg, this will push even more testosterone into the dht pathway. Seeing as proviron is already somewhat of an AI, I will monitor closely and see if I need to use aromasin additionally to really keep estrogen low and force everything into 5ar -> dht.

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#193

Sounds good! Keep us updated!

1 Like
#194

Just done it now.
There is one question that in my case would need to allow more answers:

In the hours or days following orgasm, what change (if any) do you observe in your symptoms?

In my case on year 1 after quiting Fin it would not make much difference, over 6 month at the 2 year my strenght be, mental clarity and stamina would be way better for the 6 to 12 hours following orgasm. But nowadays (3 years post discontinuation of Fin) it is rather the opposite, my penis feel more numb, my mind gets foggy and Im a bit weaker, even if my moral is better. I think the survey should consider that this state can evolve in different ways over time for PFS sufferers.

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#195

I am officially starting Proviron 200mg/day on Tuesday. I have been on HCG monotherapy for the last 5-6 weeks.

Pre HCG my bloods were:

Normal testosterone
Normal estrogen
low-normal dht

After taking HCG (no AI) for 3 weeks, my testosterone increased slightly, my estrogen doubled, as well as my dht doubled, from 13 to 26. HCG does in fact increase 5ar activity at this rate, like the study said.

I am going for another blood test on Tuesday, before I take my proviron to see if my DHT has increased even more on HCG now that I am 6 weeks deep. I also took a small amount of AI (aromasin) to help with my estrogen which had doubled. I definitely do not feel very good. Its manageable, but I feel worse than my already shitty baseline.

I am looking forward to seeing what adding proviron does, in combination with the HCG. I am taking HCG 3x per week at 500iu. This is basically keeping my testosterone high-normal and will allow more conversion into DHT, while the proviron is binding aromatase and shbg.

If I feel like shit, then I know I am on the right path. I too usually feel quite bad when I take anything or do anything that increases DHT, except Glycine, it fucks up my sleep but I feel good after.

I will keep this thread updated. With the quarantine going onā€¦and working from homeā€¦now has never been a better time to do this protocol that may make someone feel like death.

8 Likes
#196

As youā€™re working from home could you also please take the survey? You can do it for instance within 3 days at 15-20 minutes each. I know these reminders are annoying but the survey is extremely important for us. Thanks

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#197

Can you explain why you are taking 200mg and how long for. Will you be taking ghb to improve uptake during 12hr cycles? Thanks

#198

Are you still taking the Aromasin?..because AIs are tricky to dose and the shitty feeling can sneak up on you fastā€¦way worse than high E2. Iā€™m extremely sensitive to them and canā€™t even handle 1/4 of the tablets 2x/week when my E2 is at top of range.

If you werenā€™t about to start the Proviron, Iā€™d say just reduce the HCG dosage a bit. Sometimes a modest reduction of like 20-25% can stop the T from spilling over into E2 by twice that amount. But if you still want to keep up the HCG, I would definitely drop the AI (if youā€™re still taking it) while on Proviron.

Keep us all posted!

#199

To each and everyone trying out the protocol. Thank you and take care.
I tried to obtain proviron in 2017 but these chemicals are hard to get here.
My thinking was, ā€˜starting this and seeing if it works or not is better than never doing it and never finding outā€™.

If youre thinking of doing this, best of luck and everybodys here

2 Likes
#200

I havenā€™t taken aromasin in a few days. Decided to stop as it could be lowering my E too much. Bloods tomorrow will confirm where I am at and Iā€™m sure Proviron will be enough.

Iā€™m taking 200mg/day because thatā€™s what Pal did.

As far as GHB, why do you bring this up? Yes I have GHB and its helped me in the past and seemingly solved any gaba issues I had, but I donā€™t plan on using more right now. GHB may have corrected my gaba issues but now I am focusing on the AR.

@pal What time of day did you take your Proviron? Was it all in 1 dose or spread?

1 Like
#201

He was taking it 1x per day after breakfast.

#202

Make sure to test for LH and FSH those are important if you took HCG. Im excited for your protocol. Please stay positive and give the best shot you can about your diet and other things while on it.

#203

Iā€™ve already tested my LH and FSH while on HCG. They are both zero. Which is to be expected. I will stay on HCG to keep my steroid production going. Then I will stop HCG and proviron together.

3 Likes
#204

Hi man, as @malfeitor politely requested, could you please take the survey?

As a community, itā€™s essential that each member of the forum participates in the project as the data will be provided to prospective scientists in order to convince them to study our condition. As you can imagine, itā€™s extremely important information.

As has already been said, it takes an hour of your time but you donā€™t have to complete it in one sitting, your progress will be saved so you can cease and resume as you please.

We all have a lot of time on our hands at the minute. The moderators have worked extremely hard to provide us with a platform to discuss our condition and I like to think that everyone would agree that the least we can do is donate an hour of our time in appreciation of everything they do. If you need any assistance, there are plenty of people here that would be willing to lend a hand. :slightly_smiling_face:

3 Likes
#205

Any one knows what youtube he talks about i would like to read the comment

#206

Hey @piwomocne could you also please take the survey? @SkinDiesel already explained the importance above for us as a community that everyone is contributing. Thanks

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#207

@MCurtone, and @piwomocne, could you guys please post your experience in the Member Stories category?

We really have no way of legitimizing most recovery stories since the recoverees often fail to provide a thorough background of the range and severity of their symptoms or details of their development of side-effects and duration of post-drug symptoms. It also helps other members gain a perspective of your situation.

And TAKE THE POST DRUG SURVEY!!!

5 Likes
#208

Hi pal

Like you I have had some degree of PFS for some years. Over 10 now. I used to post a lot in the past.

I have avoided this forum for some time now. I have managed and got on with life but although I have improved over the years but I am not 100 percent.

I have found whenever my DHT level goes up I get worse in regards to my mental side effects. More tired and foggy and my experiences mirror yours. My vision would get a bit worse and I would get this heavy feeling around my eyes. This has happened even with simple things like sorghum flour. For this reason I have generally stayed away from testosterone boosting things or hormones except progesterone cream intermittently (helps me slightly). I assumed this was due to decreased neurosteroids as dht can reduce these further.
Also it is clear we donā€™t have an issue with making hormones. It does appear to be further downstream. I am very sensitive even now to mild increases in dht.

I note you tried many things. As a doctor I am aware of the risks of your proviron treatment.
Atrophy, complete shutdown etcā€¦

Can you tell me in what way you got worse in a bit more detail whilst taking it and how did your symptoms change over the 7 weeks you took it? Could you function after the initial couple weeks? Could you work? Did your body respond to the androgens whilst taking it in any way? Did sexual function worsen during those 7 weeks (shrinkage etc). Then afterwards you say you felt different and things starting improving. Can you detail this at all?

Thanks for sharing your story.

4 Likes
#209

Please fill out the survey. Thanks!

2 Likes
#210

Sadly, I think Pal has peaced out. A common occurrence for those few who recover. Good to see you again though 191. I think I remember you from way backā€¦one of the few medical doctors on here. This post caught my attention and brought me out of the woodwork too. Also a decade of PFS.

Proviron is a pretty routine drug that bodybuilders take while on their ā€œcycles.ā€ They dose it up to 150mg. Iā€™ve also seen some other medical studies on it for things like modest increases sperm count, etc. But those proposals were abandoned.

I think the aspect of Proviron that makes people on here like Pal feel bad is that it also lowers estradiol a significant amount at those heavy doses. Combine that with the fact that higher DHT (or any androgen for that matter) tends to make us feel worse. So one can imagine the hell that Pal had to endure. Bodybuilders donā€™t have that problem with higher androgens, and their estrogen levels are much higher when on their cycles.

Itā€™s a Hail Mary that Iā€™ve decided to try, and I can tell you Iā€™m not looking forward to it. Iā€™m still debating on whether I should add some HCG during this little cycle in order to keep my estrogen from getting too low.

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#211

Hi man! Whatā€™s up? Did you start the Proviron protocol? I hope you are ok.

1 Like