I may have to retry cistanche. When I took it, it coincided with worsened insomnia so I threw it away. I ordered off eBay from a Chinese supplier that I found on reddit:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sinkiang-Wild-Desertliving-Cistanche-tubulosa-Herb-10-1-Extract-500mg-100Capsule/274415765215?hash=item3fe47446df:g:ssoAAOSwZtNb27CL.
Do you take it only for two weeks then never cycle back on it? Which cistanche do you use?
Hi
I noticed that you took Cistanche tubulosa, whereas i was taking Cistanche deserticola
The two extracts have different chemical compositions and pharmacological activities!
Hopefully you can try the Cistanche Deserticola extract and see if it works on you.
I took Cistanche deserticola for around two weeks
1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of the powder, mixed with a smoothie (twice daily).
Then completed a 2 week cycle of crushed sorghum seeds
Around 12 crushed sorghum seeds take with half a glass of water (once or twice daily as needed).
It seems that cycling these two supplements was enough to fix my HPTA.
Please have a good read at the following extract, which suggests that Cistanche can help with the following:
Another interesting note:- activation of the HPA axis increases plasma cytokines and acute phase protein concentrations. Thus, it can increase phytohemagglutinin-stimulated lymphocyte proliferation and enhance antibody production.
** Disclaimer: Discuss with your doctor before taking any supplements/medicines
There are couple of findigs from different studies. Quite interesting, but to replicate them, we need high dosages 100/200/400 mg/kg. No toxicity is reported, mild hepatic edema.
“In our present study, CTE significantly improved depression-like behaviors in rats under CUS by regulating neurotransmitters and neurotrophins in hippocampus.”
“CTE exerted potent antidepressant activities via restoring the level of 5-HT, BDNF, and SCFAs, and modulating the relative abundance of gut microbiota in genus level in CUS rats. Correlation analysis revealed that altered gut microbiota genera were also substantially with changed neurotransmitters, neurotrophins, and SCFAs levels. Therefore, CTE was identified as a potential therapeutic agent for depression targeting the microbiota–gut–brain axis.”
"The level of DA and NE in the central nervous system was measured to determine the nerve excitability. After 4 weeks of tail suspension test, compared to the stress groups, the DA level of groups treated with moderate dosage C. deserticola Y.C.Ma was upregulated significantly each by 43.5%; the DA level of groups treated with moderate dosage C. tubulosa was upregulated significantly, too (Figure 5(a)). The level of NE was mildly upregulated in the groups treated with decoction of both herbs compared to the stress groups, and no statistical difference was found (Figure 5(b)). These results might explain the molecular mechanism of antidepressant effect of herb Cistanche . "
" Daily administration of CT extract throughout Aβ 1-42 infusion periods ameliorated the cognitive deficits, decreased amyloid deposition and reversed cholinergic and hippocampal dopaminergic dysfunction caused by Aβ 1-42. Donepezil also ameliorated the cognitive dysfunction, but only blocked the amyloid deposition and cholinergic dysfunction caused by Aβ 1-42.
We suggest that CT extract, containing enough echinacoside and acteoside, ameliorated the cognitive dysfunction caused by Aβ 1-42 via blocking amyloid deposition, reversing cholinergic and hippocampal dopaminergic neuronal function."
"The effect of Cistanche Tubulosa extract (CT Ext.) on the gene expression of
3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3β-HSD), an enzyme that is responsible for the
synthesis of testosterone, and 5α-reductase-2 and aldo-keto reductase, enzymes that
are responsible for the synthesis of dihydrotestosterone was examined. Cistanche
Tubulosa extract (400 mg/kg) was administered to mice once daily for two weeks and
liver RNA was extracted. DNA micro array analysis was conducted on one specimen in
each group of mice. In the specimen of mice receiving Cistanche Tubulosa extract, the
genetic expression of 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3β-HSD) was enhanced by 1.5
times. Meanwhile, the genetic expression of 5α-reductase-2 and aldo-keto reductase,
was doubled (Fig. 37). Meanwhile, gene expression not being analyzed by micro array
was analyzed by RT-PCR with exception on C17-20 lyase. As illustrated in Fig. 38,
genetic expression of P450 SCC, 17α-hydroxylase, 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase,
and 5α-reductase-2 was enhanced. In particular, gene expression of 5α-reductase-2 was
15 times higher as compared to the control. The enhancement of genetic expression by
Cistanche Tubulosa extract (400 mg/kg) on enzymes responsible for the production of
male hormone suggested the positive effect of Cistanche Tubulosa Extract on male
hormone production. "
"Antidepressant-Like Effects of Cistanche tubulosa Extract on Chronic Unpredictable Stress Rats Through Restoration of Gut Microbiota Homeostasis
Growing evidence shows that neuropsychiatric disorders, such as depression, are linked with gut microbiome through the gut–brain axis. Cistanches Herba is well known for the treatment of “kidney-yang” deficiency in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), and has been used for treatment of neurodegenerative diseases in recent years. In this study, chronic unpredictable stress (CUS)-induced depression model was established to explore the impact of Cistanche tubulosa extract (CTE) on behavioral tests, monoamine neurotransmitters and neurotrophic factors in hippocampus and colon, gut microbiota composition, and short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs) production. Moreover, correlation analysis was used to evaluate the functional relationship between altered gut microbiota, changed neurotransmitters and neurotrophins in hippocampus and colon, and disturbed concentration of SCFAs. CTE significantly improved depression-like behaviors in rats under CUS. Brain level of 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) expression in CUS rats were restored by CTE. The relative abundance of gut microbiota and the concentrations of acetate and hexanoic acid could also be modulated by CTE treatment. We further showed that the application of CTE in CUS rats led to strong correlation among disrupted gut microbiota composition, hippocampus neurotransmitter levels, and production of neuroactive metabolite SCFAs . Altogether, these results identify CTE as a potential treatment for depressive symptoms by restoring homeostasis of gut microbiota for microbiota–gut–brain axis disorders, opening new avenues in the field of neuropsychopharmacology. "
“ECH combined with hypothalamic AR in the pocket of Met-894 and Val-713 to inhibit the transfer of AR from the cytoplasm to nuclei in the hypothalamus. While negative feedback of sex hormone regulation was inhibited, positive feedback was stimulated to increase the secretion of luteinizing hormone and testosterone subsequently enhancing sperm quantity. [3].”
Oops, yeah it’s for tubulosa. The Tubulosa variety is very similar to deserticola pharmacologically but it’s more abundant and hence cheaper, whereas Cistanche Salsa or Sinensis are to be avoided if I am not mistaken. Could you share a link to the one you’re taking? Never mind, saw your alibaba link for the deserticola. Is this the exact one you use? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008850784.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3fdc4c4dNLpsVz
Hi Mercked
Yes that’s the correct link for the Cistanche deserticola, on aliexpress.
But there are other places where you might be able to get it a lot quicker, e.g. here:
For sorghum seeds, I bought these on amazon:
… I do not have any affiliation with any of these suppliers.
As mentioned in a previous post, please don’t take Cistance/Sorghum seeds at the same time.
They should be cycled.
Take Cistanche deserticola only, for 2 weeks.
Then Sorghum seeds only, for 2 weeks.
(sorghum seeds can be chewed raw, or crushed with mortar and pestle).
Is there any real difference Desert vs Tubalosa?
Mercked did you recover quickly from the insomnia once you stopped and do you reckon it was linked to the cistanche?
Linking this thread just for background too
Thanks for this thread Noniman
Interesting rat study on the same Cistanche:
“Abstract: Cistanche deserticola (CD) has been considered as a tonic agent on reproductive function for thousands of years. The effects of CD extract on penis erectile response were investigated in present study. After castration surgery, rats were treated intragastrically with CD extract (0.45, 0.90 and 1.8 g/kg) daily for four weeks. Penis erectile response was measured and the serum hormones were assayed at the end of the experiment. It was evaluated that the erectile latency became longer and the erectile duration shorter significantly in castrated rats compared to sham operated controls. However, CD extract shortened the erectile latency and prolonged the erectile duration to minimize the negative effects of castration. At the dosage of 0.9g/kg, CD extract regulated the serum luteinizing hormone concentration approach to normal level in castrated rats. These findings indicated that CD facilitated the penis erectile response and modulated the serum hormone level to some extent.”
This Cistanche is waiting in my mailbox, and I’ll be taking it today. I’m keeping my fingers crossed and hoping I have as much success with it as the rats did in the study. I can’t take the same dosage as the rats (approx 1g per kg) because the entire package is 112 grams.
If I get any benefit at all, even short lived, I plan on putting it to good use, and reporting back on this old thread.
Excellent, how are you taking it?
(Did you buy the powder or tablets)
If powder, you could mix it in a smoothie.
Start with a low dose and go from there
Please keep us posted and hope it works for you.
It’s in powder form. The smoothie is a good idea, thank you. I’m going home to get it now. I’ll take the recommended dose on the packaging, if they list one.
And my standards have dropped. If this can fix just one side effect, and repeatedly do so, I’ll consider it a win.
Ok, it came in. It’s “rou cong rong 5:1” and organic, in powder form. The label said to take 3 grams or 1/2 to 1 teaspoon. I mixed a teaspoon and added it to 16oz of almond milk, because I had no smoothie ingredients. It didn’t dilute well, and tastes a little like chocolate. I’ll try with water tomorrow.
Ok, mixing it with water will be ok.
Sometimes cistanche can cause stomach upset, so keep a look out for that.
If you get bad stomach pain, lower your dose or take a break from it completely.
I felt twinges of libido after the first few doses, so it may take a few days for it to work on you. Give it time.
Thanks Noniman. I’m on day 3, and have been mixing it with water. One of the success stories that compelled me to try Cintanche included Rhodiola. That just came in yesterday, and I’m adding it to the mix. So far, nothing, but I have patience and will continue to keep hope alive.
Are you taking Rhodiola & cistanche deserticola at the same time??
Might be best to take them separately, like take Rhodiola on its own for 2 weeks
Then take the cistanche on its own for 2 weeks
This should make it easier to see how each supplement affects you.
Thank you for the advice about taking them separately. I’ll do that, as I’m on so much anyway. I’ve also been on TRT for a couple of months with no change. Unsure of whether or not to stop it.
I’m not aware of anybody on this forum being cured from TRT.
If you did decide to stop TRT, I would research the forum for relevant threads and other members with previous experience. You may need PCT with Clomid/tamoxifen etc.
Probably the most important thing is that you stay “mentally resilient” and hang in there… no matter what happens.
Thank you for that advice. I looked it up and will be on Clomid for a couple of weeks. I will also confirm with my endo. Yes, I saw no one was cured by trt but was hoping after 6 month on HCG, something may have changed and maybe something would be different, but nothing was.