what about sex?
how long did u use the hormonal cream for adrenals? and … did it help?
Hey ithappens, are you the same dude who suffer hair loss from accutane?
just to let all the people knows,yesterday I just started my GHB routine…HOPE TO RECOVER !!!
so ithappens…always good?
Yeah, keep a detailed journal of your experience using the stuff. Amount used, how often, feelings experienced, before, after, etc. This can show us its benefits and if we should use this as well.
one more question: after u stopped taking xyrem,to get the recovery u had,are u still going bed early or u started to go out with friends again in the night ?
1 Like
I’ve honestly been trying to get the bottom to what was wrong with me/us, and why this happened for almost the past 2 years now. I had given up recently after from the frusturation in going over the countless theories and ideas in my mind. However, it was regarding the recent exchange between mew and the unknown doctor posted here propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … 2357#12357 that finally clicked everything together for me. Basically I think most of what the doctor stated in the exchanged is dead on with what happened concerning us. Basically, 5-AR II is down regulated to the point that it causes all of our post fin problems, and the doctor states that raising our dht levels gets the pituitary and prostate to produce 5AR II again, thus the reason why some men have recovered. Let me just state that my point of this post from here on out is not to scientifically prove myself by posting countless articles, but just to reiterate what the doctor stated through my own experiences and others on this forum, propose an alternate treatment method using the same premise, and plan a course of action on testing myself with it.
I spent most of last night piecing everything together, going over every little detail, but I’ll try to keep it as organized and simple as I can in my explanation. Basically due to fin 5AR II is down regulated and not being produced in the pituitary and the prostate, ok we know that. We also know that this will affect the sexual sides, but what about the mental? We know without 5AR-II the brain cannot produce allopregneolone as well as GABA thus the anxiety and muscle twitching lots of users experience. It’s also interesting to note that like many users here I myself got progressively worse over the course of months after quitting fin. I literally could feel myself getting worse and worse, feeling number, getting worse sleep etc the longer it went on. I believe this because without the GABA being produced, and not getting the adequate deep sleep needed I could not regenerate or create anymore dopamine. Thus my Dopamine and GABA levels went down over the course of months as well. This would explain why many men get worse over time or crash shortly after coming off. Our bodies are in a 5AR II reduced/no-producing state, and this drains us from an endocrine as well as neuro-endocrine standpoint.
This whole problem explains some of the reactions I had over the past couple of years, and why I had them. For instance I never felt well outdoors and would get an itching reaction etc. This is largely I think due to the fact that my body is taking in all the vitamin d from the sun, but since it can’t do what it should do naturally and turn it into dopamine it causes an allergic reaction. This also holds true for why many men such as myself have tried to take the dopamine precursor supplements only to have a somewhat negative reaction or no benefit at all. The same could be true for our digestion and the insulin resistance problems people have on here, as dopamine is directly related to the process, a lack of dopamine will cause unstable blood sugar.
Now the doctor proposes that the cure to this is using DHT restore 5AR II activity within the prostate and the pituitary. This process seems risky though considering there is a chance it could shut down normal production from the pituitary and that’s the last thing we want. Now but why have other men became better and more importantly how did they raise DHT? Simple, they raised their own DHT/5AR production naturally by using neurological altering substances to do so. Take Paul Walters and myself propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1630 , was able to increase DHT by taking what is phytoestrogen in Quercetin and maybe something else along with it.
The problem though I think with trying simply one approach is that it doesn’t address the whole issue, it needs to be combined. So the most effective natural way to raise DHT levels, in my opinion, would be to raise dopamine, raise gaba, and perhaps use some sort of quercetin etc to reduce estrogen at the same time. So that’s it in theory the next step is how would someone go about doing this?
I plan to test this out on myself over the next month or so. To raise GABA I can use the xyrem that I still have which should work fine, I can use Quercertin, but the question is Dopamine. What I plan on doing is hopefully getting an rx for wellbutrin and taking that in mornings a couple times a week. I don’t want to take it on a regular basis mainly because it also raises norepinephrine, and that would cause negative anxiety affects etc. But if I take it a couple times a week I think it can raise dopamine levels sufficiently enough that more DHT will be produced. I’m almost fully there and I really think that by doing this it will get me back to the 100% mark I was a few months ago.
This is great stuff, and I hope it works out. One question, though: do you think there’s any way to confirm or deny this hypothesis using blood tests?
If, for example, downregulation of 5AR in the pituitary leaves people with an inability to manufacture the sufficient amount of DHT and dopamine (among other things), would it be possible to test these hormones (dopamine via urine test) before, and then after (or even during) one of these treatments? If we could do this and see the difference in symptoms reflected in a difference in blood results, we could fairly comprehensively prove that this is where the problem lies, and perhaps devise a solution to many others on this website.
Also, is anyone in contact with Dr. Shippen, Dr. Crisler, or Dr. Mariano, and able to forward this theory onto them for their opinion? As good as many of the people on this website are, we could still do with these guys’ clinical expertise.
Gim
the theory could be right…but what about ppl having high /normal DHT in their bloodtest??? if u’re saying just to raise DHT to let 5AR2 to work again than ppl that have high/normal DHT should have a normal 5AR2 working …am I wrong???
I was thinking the same thing…
I’m not too sure, but I think that guy is talking about DHT that is made in the prostate and pituatary? A lot of DHT is made by tissues in the body (such as the skin on the scalp, for example) and so does not show up in blood tests, I think. There’s always a lot of talk on this site on how blood tests aren’t really that much use when it comes to DHT.
This idea about increasing DHT to supraphysiological levels temporarily is interesting, but it seems pretty speculative to me. It’s a shame that this guy won’t work directly with us.
mmm…it could be interesting how I had normal DHT by bloodtest and my hair didn’t fall out… so maybe u’re right,my scalp wasn’t producing DHT by 5AR2 in the scalp (prostate etc…) but it was in my blood cause of 5AR1 or 5AR2 present in other areas of the body …but I think that if it was just present cause 5AR1 the bloodtest should show low DHT…
searching on google about 5AR2 and pituitary came across this name nicotinamideadenildinucleotidefosfatoridotto (NADPH)…the study says it controlls the 5AR2 and the pituitary does it too…so,I’ll search more …
anyway I found many studies saying that 5AR2 is present in the skin etc,but it can be upregulated or downregulated and it let the DHT flow into the organs where 5AR2 is situated .
I asked this same question to my neurologist and some other doctors awhile back, and it’s basically the same conclusion, there’s no way to test neruo chemicals within the brain at all. He basically told me that any sort of urine or other test out there is really just a waste of time and money, and upon further research he does in fact seem to be right. The one thing though is that you can still use physical and mental symptoms to measure if you’re low on certain ones, and in our cases I think GABA and Dopamine are in fact low. In terms of the high DHT I do believe it to be probably from 5AR I like the doctor said in his post. Many guys here have a slow down in hair loss so it would make sense that 5AR II is down regulated as well. Anyway, I’m starting out on my routine of wellbutrin, xyrem, and quiencertin this week, i’ll let you know how it goes.
to ITHAPPENS : it could sound a stupid question but while u were on GHB (xyrem) u never went out in the night cause u couldn’t function after taken the drug ,but what about after (sfter your xyrem routine)?.. are u going out at night when you don’t use xyrem or always staying at home sleeping early ?..this question is just to understand if ur body after a recovery (partial or total recovery) is able to stay well by itself or if it need a lot of attentions like while on the recovering times .
thanks
i really don’t understand the context of your question. i can go out if i want, but i choose not drink etc cause of how it will impair my sleep. i usually go to bed around 12-1
Yes it’s out the context but I did this question bacause I want to understand if after recovery (if I had a full one) I can go back to my old life style partying everynight and get drunk like a crazy without coming back to my symptoms .
Ahhhhh, the good old days…Wouldn’t that be nice Italy…I can tell you from my experience that drinking is getting better as far as the feeling of goodness that comes from it, but I still get a bit sketchy the next day after really tying one on the night before.